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Originally Posted by 54regcab

Why not more furances @ 50K with 4 or 5 ton blowers? Us southern folk would love to see them...

Why? You can get a 70/75K furnace in VS 2 stage and use low... and get the AC airflow.

Manufacturers have one less box to produce and test and market and warrant.

Just get a Pro1 Thermostat, It will do what ever you want to do with it's staging logic.

Why not more furances @ 50K with 4 or 5 ton blowers? Us southern folk would love to see them...

Originally Posted by beenthere

You along with a fair number of other members are in the same boat. As far as you can't put in the smaller BTU furnace and still have the air flow the A/C needs. Guessing you have a fair number of 60,000 BTUs of heating needed, and 60,000 BTUs of cooling needed. That would make a 100,000 BTU 2 stage the smallest you could use I believe.

Yes, this is the general reasoning... albeit the numbers are a little extreme.

Most 'common folk' houses have a 30-35K BTU heat need... yet a 2.5 to 3 ton cooling need. Those little 12-14" wide furnace boxes will not flow enough air without excessive static pressure losses... and the coils... WOW are they restrictive. This is why I use a 70 or 75K (depending on the brand) 80% VS drive furnace... to get the airflow I want in cooling.

The brand that makes the 75K furnace, has a model with a 4 ton blower... the other brand has a 90K with a 5 ton blower (both are wider cabinets with the same burners... just lots of room on each side). I use these furnaces regularly.

Just a side note... I try to avoid 5 ton systems... better to have 2 systems. One reason would be two floors... another would be separate the master suite on the main floor from the living section of the house... better economy and comfort.

Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech

Good observation... Generally, I like to use the largest furnace box I can... better airflow and lower static pressure. And remember... I am in an AC climate.

You along with a fair number of other members are in the same boat. As far as you can't put in the smaller BTU furnace and still have the air flow the A/C needs. Guessing you have a fair number of 60,000 BTUs of heating needed, and 60,000 BTUs of cooling needed. That would make a 100,000 BTU 2 stage the smallest you could use I believe.

Originally Posted by 54regcab

I've found a few 2 stage furnaces with stage 2 disconnected. Furance was oversized so the customer didn't know the differnce. The contractor could have sold a smaller single stage but didn't.

Yet the customer did not get a VS drive furnace... and does not have the dehum cycle. The dehum cycle is what I sell with the VS furnace. In this area... it is well worth it!

Originally Posted by beenthere

I think its member "mayguy" that had a 2 stage set up to use the timer. He said it worked great and provided him with plenty of comfort and he didn't think a 2 stage stat would make any difference to him. He eventually tried a 2 stage stat, which improved his comfort even more.

Moral, a customer can't know what their missing until they have had it.

If its only going into second stage after 5 or 10 minutes only a few times a year. I'm guessing you have to use a furnace larger then the heat load needs in order to get the size blower you need.

Good observation... Generally, I like to use the largest furnace box I can... better airflow and lower static pressure. And remember... I am in an AC climate.

Originally Posted by amd

How do you know that the customer wouldn't know the difference?

Shouldn't customers like that not purchase 2-stage furnaces to begin with?

Why not just offer it as an optional upgrade?

Ass-u-me-ing... is not a good way to communicate....

My sales process includes enough time (usually an hour or two) of discussion to determine the customers needs and wants... most of the time I am listening.

When I spec the system for them... I already KNOW what they want (and do not want, and do not understand, and do not care about).

I've found a few 2 stage furnaces with stage 2 disconnected. Furance was oversized so the customer didn't know the differnce. The contractor could have sold a smaller single stage but didn't.

Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech

IMO it depends on the part of the country you are in and the customer.

As noted in my previous post... some customers only buy the VS furnace... not a full 2 stage system.

Also... many folks only want hot or cold air coming from the vents... they are not smart enough nor sensitive enough to appreciate 'comfort'. The reason I sell them VS furnaces is humidity control... in my climate everyone likes humidity control.

Now a question: Why sell a customer something they do not need, want, understand, or even can tell the difference?
IMO it is not good customer service to force stuff on the customer... it surely is not good value for the customer.

I think its member "mayguy" that had a 2 stage set up to use the timer. He said it worked great and provided him with plenty of comfort and he didn't think a 2 stage stat would make any difference to him. He eventually tried a 2 stage stat, which improved his comfort even more.

Moral, a customer can't know what their missing until they have had it.

If its only going into second stage after 5 or 10 minutes only a few times a year. I'm guessing you have to use a furnace larger then the heat load needs in order to get the size blower you need.

Originally Posted by coolwhip

If you set it up with a single stage stat, then it will not function as a true 2 stage furnace....it will simply work off a timer.

Still functions a a true 2 stage furnace, since it is a true 2 stage furnace. Doesn't provide the comfort he customer paid for though.

Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech

IMO it depends on the part of the country you are in and the customer.

As noted in my previous post... some customers only buy the VS furnace... not a full 2 stage system.

Also... many folks only want hot or cold air coming from the vents... they are not smart enough nor sensitive enough to appreciate 'comfort'. The reason I sell them VS furnaces is humidity control... in my climate everyone likes humidity control.

Now a question: Why sell a customer something they do not need, want, understand, or even can tell the difference?
IMO it is not good customer service to force stuff on the customer... it surely is not good value for the customer.

How do you know that the customer wouldn't know the difference?

Shouldn't customers like that not purchase 2-stage furnaces to begin with?

Why not just offer it as an optional upgrade?

Originally Posted by smoke

nismo1, check out the Honeywell wireless stats. You can get them in a Focus Pro style up to the Prestige line. 2wire or no wire applications

~smoke~

The carrier edge stats are great too, only require two wires to do power up, they also do humidity, up to two stages heat and cool and or a heat pump. Weve installed lots of them on geothermal, and other systems.

Originally Posted by smoke

How often does a customer buy a 2 stage furnace without a 2 stage air conditioner? Why would you force a furnace to run for 5-10 or even 20 minutes before kicking in to second stage when the customer just turned the thermostat up 6 degrees?
Why not sell the customer full functionality?


~smoke~

I see a LOT of 2 stage furances w/o a 2 stage AC. Going from single to 2 stage on a furance is relatively inexpensive comapred to makign the 2 stage jump on AC. I can count on 1 hand how many 2 stage AC units I've seen installed, they just aren't that common.

IMO it depends on the part of the country you are in and the customer.

As noted in my previous post... some customers only buy the VS furnace... not a full 2 stage system.

Also... many folks only want hot or cold air coming from the vents... they are not smart enough nor sensitive enough to appreciate 'comfort'. The reason I sell them VS furnaces is humidity control... in my climate everyone likes humidity control.

Now a question: Why sell a customer something they do not need, want, understand, or even can tell the difference?
IMO it is not good customer service to force stuff on the customer... it surely is not good value for the customer.

Im with the two stage furnace two stage Tstat. That being said if there are wiring constraints and for some cost issues single stage and set to delay would work. I am in a severe climate so a delay probably is not the best.

nismo1, check out the Honeywell wireless stats. You can get them in a Focus Pro style up to the Prestige line. 2wire or no wire applications

~smoke~

My criteria is whatever the boss ordered.

Depends on stat wire, our Tstats are single or 2 stage so if the wires are there then stat if not then board. On high end we pull new wire. Case by case

How often does a customer buy a 2 stage furnace without a 2 stage air conditioner? Why would you force a furnace to run for 5-10 or even 20 minutes before kicking in to second stage when the customer just turned the thermostat up 6 degrees?
Why not sell the customer full functionality?


~smoke~