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No receiver but cap tube replaced by a TX valve

I’m currently working on a Beverage Air back bar beer cooler. It was a cap tube system last time I worked on it. Flash ahead a few years. There is a tx valve inside the cooler next to the evap.
This condenser has no receiver after it. Where is the extra refrigerant going to sit when the TX valve starts to throttle back? It’s taking half of the condenser coil surface area away. The compressor isn’t meant to start under load and it’s killing overloads. New compressor after some of our guys replaced the hard start 4 times in a month.
I understand A/C systems have tx valves and no receivers. I thought that some engineers oversized the condenser coil and matched a high torque starting compressor. This would eliminate the need for a receiver.
My cooler is now wrecked. I have to install a receiver and a self equalizing tx valve before we kill another compressor.
If it’s got a cap tube, it’s not as simple as slamming in a tx valve and feeding as much liquid as you need. The rest of the system wasn’t designed for this.

Originally Posted by trippintl0

Its all good

I've done the same thing, searching and reading through the archives, it'd easy to forget the age of thread and make a post! Especially on a topic I might be passionate about!! [emoji1]

I was just surprised that he somewhat insinuated that Traulsen was cheap crap.

Originally Posted by Mike19

You joined in 2010, this is your first post, and you decided to bring this two year old thread back from the dead?

Its all good

I've done the same thing, searching and reading through the archives, it'd easy to forget the age of thread and make a post! Especially on a topic I might be passionate about!! [emoji1]

Originally Posted by miloshar

No receiver with a TXV metering device in any refrigeration system means cheap manufacture practice. In order to make one unit what will last longer and in the same time be efficient , best practice is an external equalizer type of TXV and oversized receiver/ accumulator. Then the job improvement will achieve optimal performances for any kind of loads, because of the constant very low SH without flooding the compressor. Also you will be able to make the system working better with high ambient temperatures and low loads without worry for any compressor failures.

Do not forget, that the manufacture's goal is cheap is possible, and the chances that the technicians who worked with the unit before you has limited knowledge and practices are huge!

Always think how to improve , not just how to fix.

You joined in 2010, this is your first post, and you decided to bring this two year old thread back from the dead?

Originally Posted by Capz

I've been taking note lately, seeing many original Traulsen units using TXV's, R404, but no receiver and in a few cases, no sight glass. It was always my understanding, a liquid receiver is necessary when a TXV is used for metering. Can anyone enlighten me? Is this just Traulsen cutting corners, or figuring receivers not necessary for indoor equipment with relatively stable ambient temperatures?

if no receiver, verify txv superheat and charge to subcooling.

Originally Posted by trippintl0

Thread is over two years old.

Yet I feel myself getting pulled in too![emoji12]

The thread is on indoor self contained units. So headmasters doesn't really apply.

Indoor units also sometimes need receivers. Not for flooding charges, but for systems with multiple evaporators. The receiver holds the extra refrigerant when some units aren't calling.

I don't think NOT having a receiver automatically means a unit is cheaply manufactured. Bottom line is if the system needs storage for extra refrigerant then it will probably have a receiver.

Most prep tables that have independent base refrigerator and wrapped cold rails (on a single system) will have a receiver so that when one section is cycled off, the refrigerant has somewhere to go.

If it doesn't need a receiver (like on Traulsen units that don't have one), then putting one on does nothing other than add potential leak points and increase the cost of the unit.

Ah, didn't think of the multi evap pump down scenario, good call. - Also, good call on realizing this is a thread that has risen from the dead, didn't notice the dates, hah.

Originally Posted by Apprenticanic

Didn't read all the responses so may be repeating, but the receiver is only necessary for a system with a varying ambient temp surrounding the condenser. IE, outdoor condensing unit. Receiver used to store the flooded charge (during summer) which is required for running the unit in the winter using a head maser or ORI/ORD set up to achieve a constant head/liquid line pressure to maintain the pressure drop across the TXV, regardless of ambient temp year round.

Thread is over two years old.

Yet I feel myself getting pulled in too![emoji12]

The thread is on indoor self contained units. So headmasters doesn't really apply.

Indoor units also sometimes need receivers. Not for flooding charges, but for systems with multiple evaporators. The receiver holds the extra refrigerant when some units aren't calling.

I don't think NOT having a receiver automatically means a unit is cheaply manufactured. Bottom line is if the system needs storage for extra refrigerant then it will probably have a receiver.

Most prep tables that have independent base refrigerator and wrapped cold rails (on a single system) will have a receiver so that when one section is cycled off, the refrigerant has somewhere to go.

If it doesn't need a receiver (like on Traulsen units that don't have one), then putting one on does nothing other than add potential leak points and increase the cost of the unit.

Didn't read all the responses so may be repeating, but the receiver is only necessary for a system with a varying ambient temp surrounding the condenser. IE, outdoor condensing unit. Receiver used to store the flooded charge (during summer) which is required for running the unit in the winter using a head maser or ORI/ORD set up to achieve a constant head/liquid line pressure to maintain the pressure drop across the TXV, regardless of ambient temp year round.

come across many traulsen cabinets with a txv without a receiver., never seen a cap tube and a receiver set up (factory)

Skid....I dislike that word... Lol

Originally Posted by the mojo

It does have a receiver.....082S Ernie Parmell and Jimmy White,only a couple of guys here will get that.

Ernie was one smart dude!
I only met Jimmy once or twice in the late 80’s, seems like a lifetime ago.

How is this any different than almost every ice machine? They use a txv and have no receiver? Used on remotes, water Cooled and self contained air cooled?

Originally Posted by miloshar

No receiver with a TXV metering device in any refrigeration system means cheap manufacture practice. In order to make one unit what will last longer and in the same time be efficient , best practice is an external equalizer type of TXV and oversized receiver/ accumulator. Then the job improvement will achieve optimal performances for any kind of loads, because of the constant very low SH without flooding the compressor. Also you will be able to make the system working better with high ambient temperatures and low loads without worry for any compressor failures.

Do not forget, that the manufacture's goal is cheap is possible, and the chances that the technicians who worked with the unit before you has limited knowledge and practices are huge!

Always think how to improve , not just how to fix.

It does have a receiver.....082S Ernie Parmell and Jimmy White,only a couple of guys here will get that.

No receiver with a TXV metering device in any refrigeration system means cheap manufacture practice. In order to make one unit what will last longer and in the same time be efficient , best practice is an external equalizer type of TXV and oversized receiver/ accumulator. Then the job improvement will achieve optimal performances for any kind of loads, because of the constant very low SH without flooding the compressor. Also you will be able to make the system working better with high ambient temperatures and low loads without worry for any compressor failures.

Do not forget, that the manufacture's goal is cheap is possible, and the chances that the technicians who worked with the unit before you has limited knowledge and practices are huge!

Always think how to improve , not just how to fix.

Depends on how the TXV sits relative to the condensor, and what the capacity is. Plenty of low charge systems have no reciever. Like someone mentioned earlier, many AC's don't have recievers. As long as there is a good supply of liquid refrigerant consistantly between the TXV and the condenser, it will still function well.

Originally Posted by mike1020

The condensing units are factory. From 1984 and still kicking. I have at least eight of these older units configered with recievers and cap tubes.

I have never seen a factory condensing unit use a receiver with a cap tube system. How about you get us some model numbers and we do some investigating ? Or might you be seeing cap tubes coming from a distributor ?

Originally Posted by VTP99

Sounds like someone is installing the wrong condensing units.

The condensing units are factory. From 1984 and still kicking. I have at least eight of these older units configered with recievers and cap tubes.

Originally Posted by Capz

Seeing it on 10' prep tables with dual evaps, two txv's

They oversize there condenser coils as well.

The receiver is not for pump down nessisarily. It's needed when additional flooding charge is required for low ambient operation. If ambient is controlled, as pointed out earlier, the cond coil can hold the entire charge during pump down. A lot of your reach in equipment may not have or need a receiver. Self contained reach in equipment any way. Remotes may need them even if cond is in controlled ambient depending on lineset.

There is no need for a receiver in a system where the ambient is controlled and the load doesn't vary much.

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