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Originally Posted by HVACTechNC

Other than oil changes, no I do not work on my own cars. Oil changes IMO are the same as a filter change on an HVAC unit, and I would not expect a customer to call a pro to change a filter for them. That actually speaks to my point perfectly, I am not an auto mechanic, nor do I want to be one. I know what my limitations are in that field, and when the service I need exceeds my skill level I contact a professional, not try to buy parts from craigslist and then fish on forums for advice on how to install it.

Besides, my brother is an ASC certified master mechanic, so I have really easy and affordable access to the pros in that field. Did a labor swap for him earlier this year actually. I changed out his 14 year old York heat pump with a leaky coil for a nice, new Rheem 3 ton heat pump with a nifty Honeywell zone dampering system in exchange for new brakes, new axle, new radiator and water pump, new springs and shocks, battery and alternator, and a few other misc stuff on my Ford.

Ultimately my point is that DIY consumerism is great, I do it too. I paint my own house instead of calling painters, but you have to know what your limits are. This is a specialized field, requiring lots of training and specialized tools to do it correctly and most jobs in this field should be done by qualified professionals, not homeowners.

I totally agree with this.

Fixing DIY repairs is very profitable.

A customer changed out the condenser fan motor and miswired it to the contactor. His mistake sent 120v through motor into the 24v control circuit, frying the contactor, the control voltage transformer and the furnace controller. Cause and effect, chain of events.... results? smoking....

I replaced the fried components and cleaned the filthy condenser coil that contributed to the failed fan motor. He still had the original motor, his replacement was nominally the correct size but didn't match on all the specs. He wanted to risk it using it since he already purchased it.
His new motor ran for about an hour before overheating, of course I was called back to replace it. When I returned the next day... he had already purchased the correct motor and I installed it for him.


The total price of this disaster was 3x the flat rate to solve the original issue he fixed.

Some AC work is simple, much of it seems simple but isn't and has expensive and sometimes lethal consequences if you get it wrong.

Originally Posted by HVACTechNC

Other than oil changes, no I do not work on my own cars. Oil changes IMO are the same as a filter change on an HVAC unit, and I would not expect a customer to call a pro to change a filter for them. That actually speaks to my point perfectly, I am not an auto mechanic, nor do I want to be one. I know what my limitations are in that field, and when the service I need exceeds my skill level I contact a professional, not try to buy parts from craigslist and then fish on forums for advice on how to install it.

Besides, my brother is an ASC certified master mechanic, so I have really easy and affordable access to the pros in that field. Did a labor swap for him earlier this year actually. I changed out his 14 year old York heat pump with a leaky coil for a nice, new Rheem 3 ton heat pump with a nifty Honeywell zone dampering system in exchange for new brakes, new axle, new radiator and water pump, new springs and shocks, battery and alternator, and a few other misc stuff on my Ford.

Ultimately my point is that DIY consumerism is great, I do it too. I paint my own house instead of calling painters, but you have to know what your limits are. This is a specialized field, requiring lots of training and specialized tools to do it correctly and most jobs in this field should be done by qualified professionals, not homeowners.

Really?
Neither me nor my business partner are mechanics, but when his GF's minivan blew the front oil seal, we managed to fix it in about 15 hours, where Chilton said it should take around 8 or 9.
And that included just about jerking the engine. Not to mention having to pull the timing belt.

But I agree most people not in the field should not be messing with systems, just because they'll screw them up.

Originally Posted by illdoit

just a thought that i'm sure has been raised many times on here. do you work on your own cars? are you a certified auto mechanic? i manage a supply house (wholesale) and i will not sell to unliscesened people, but i will send them across the street where they can buy the same parts retail.

Other than oil changes, no I do not work on my own cars. Oil changes IMO are the same as a filter change on an HVAC unit, and I would not expect a customer to call a pro to change a filter for them. That actually speaks to my point perfectly, I am not an auto mechanic, nor do I want to be one. I know what my limitations are in that field, and when the service I need exceeds my skill level I contact a professional, not try to buy parts from craigslist and then fish on forums for advice on how to install it.

Besides, my brother is an ASC certified master mechanic, so I have really easy and affordable access to the pros in that field. Did a labor swap for him earlier this year actually. I changed out his 14 year old York heat pump with a leaky coil for a nice, new Rheem 3 ton heat pump with a nifty Honeywell zone dampering system in exchange for new brakes, new axle, new radiator and water pump, new springs and shocks, battery and alternator, and a few other misc stuff on my Ford.

Ultimately my point is that DIY consumerism is great, I do it too. I paint my own house instead of calling painters, but you have to know what your limits are. This is a specialized field, requiring lots of training and specialized tools to do it correctly and most jobs in this field should be done by qualified professionals, not homeowners.

CAR GO BOOM


What would the impact of and "incident level, once every 50 years" ignited automobile compartment leakage actually be?
In terms of the "impact", it is important to recognize that automobiles generally have 12-15 ounces of DURACOOL® refrigerant. If there were a full amount leak into an automobile compartment and it ignited, it would theoretically create a "flash" which would last 1-1.5 seconds.
There are eminent Risk Assessment Reports available which document the safety of hydrocarbon refrigerants in motor vehicle air conditioning systems.

What is the difference between regular propane and the refrigerant propane that is used to manufacture the DURACOOL® products?
The propane that is regularly used for barbecues, and general consumer or commercial use is a by product or deritive of the hydrocarbon manufacturing process (the production and refining of raw oil products). The propane used for standard applications (such as your home barbecue). In order to utilize the product as "refrigerant grade" the product is further refined to render out methane gases and other impurities. This refrigerant propane is different in many ways, most notably is the disparity in the auto ignition. Essentially this refining makes the product safer and more stable. The Auto ignition for regular grade propane is ~842 F., while the DURACOOL® products auto ignition is ~1635 F.

Why does DURACOOL® have the scent of propane?
The additive "ethyl mercaptin" is actually a stenching agent that is added for safety reasons. Mercaptan, as it is commonly known, is added to natural gas, propane, butane and virtually all gases as an agent that will alert the user to any leakage. The addition of mercapan should be viewed as a safety feature (see below). Mercaptan is also condensable in the AC system and can not limit performance in any way and will not negatively impact components. The mercaptan smell is not detectable under regular working conditions or under normal install conditions.

Note: It is important to recognize that, whether a refrigerant is toxic or flammable, the risk of leakage into the automobile compartment is very, very minimal. The great thing about DURACOOL 12a® is that the product provides for a built-in safety feature that ensures IMMEDIATE notification to the driver and the drivers family when there is a leak. This safety feature is the addition of 'mercaptan' and this feature is not available with
R-134a. Overall, the safety aspects of the DURACOOL® Refrigerants by far outweigh those of the toxic alternatives available today.

Originally Posted by JimmyM

How about a condenser full of hot, high pressure propane gas mounted on the front of your car during an accident?

One would hope that this stuff is at least tested. Propane systems have been around for years. It is just that the car issue is new....I first heard of this stuff six years ago. I have never read or heard of a car going boom because of the propane in it.....

Originally Posted by ReeferTechy

Funny thing that propane is heavier then air. I'm liking the thought of people's leaky vehicle A/Cs pooling propane under there cars. Great idea.

How about a condenser full of hot, high pressure propane gas mounted on the front of your car during an accident?

Originally Posted by HVACTechNC

Yes, but not entirely true. I also dont like homeowners getting ahold of this kind of stuff becaues it is a bit of a slap in the face... Its like decades of experience, proper tools, training, licensing, ect is unnessicary for HIM (this friggin yokel here) who will just pick up a can of "frosty fog" and dump it in and all will be well... I dont think I can perform surgery just because I can buy a scalpel and a bit of reciprocity from "Mr. fix it" would be appreciated. These people really think that what holds them back from being able to fix their own systems is access to refrigerant or tools or something, not their TOTAL lack of experience.

just a thought that i'm sure has been raised many times on here. do you work on your own cars? are you a certified auto mechanic? i manage a supply house (wholesale) and i will not sell to unliscesened people, but i will send them across the street where they can buy the same parts retail.

Heck at 1 time ANYONE could go to any major HVAC supply house here in ONTARIO and buy REGRIGERANTS, they paid list $, no discount but it was available.


Building owners , homeowners had their own GAS when it came time to charge the system.

Had 1 office building that looked like a DUPONT warehouse , maint mgr got a DEAL on DRUMS of Freon for the 2 Trane Centravac's they had.

I'm sure that the majority of diy honeywell stats are correctly installed - hydrocarbon refrigerant and leak stop on the other hand, can't be used correctly, period.

Hydrocarbon refrigerants are sold because real refrigerants can't be purchased without a license, yet, 152a/143a/134a can be purchased and vented into the atmosphere by anyone in this form...

I don't like the honeywell stats on sale at Lowes either.
But I do enjoy the money I make when homeowner has to call me to come A) wire the thing so their unit will run, and/or B) Pay me to install a new transformer and wire their spiffy new t-stat so it won't blow the transformer and their unit will run.

Originally Posted by corny

.

Please dont bring up the argument of them getting themself killed working on their own stuff...or of harming others.....or of releasing refrigerant......

We dont like homeowners getting access to this stuff for only one reason....it cuts into our business......but what we fail to realize is that it doesnt cut into our business at all......its only a little hiccup in the system...... they are eventually going to be forced to call someone...and will probably be better prepared to pay the price after their folly.

Yes, but not entirely true. I also dont like homeowners getting ahold of this kind of stuff becaues it is a bit of a slap in the face... Its like decades of experience, proper tools, training, licensing, ect is unnessicary for HIM (this friggin yokel here) who will just pick up a can of "frosty fog" and dump it in and all will be well... I dont think I can perform surgery just because I can buy a scalpel and a bit of reciprocity from "Mr. fix it" would be appreciated. These people really think that what holds them back from being able to fix their own systems is access to refrigerant or tools or something, not their TOTAL lack of experience.

Funny thing that propane is heavier then air. I'm liking the thought of people's leaky vehicle A/Cs pooling propane under there cars. Great idea.

Where did someone come up with the idea its SCENTED propane ?http://www.redtek.com/techinfo_refprop.html

I have used it ( properly in 1 of the kids old cars , been 3 summers A/C still nice and cold ) saving my 50LB R-12 for my older collector cars.

FYI
The instructions on the can say's the old refrigerant in the system should be recovered and the system evacuated before using the R12a.

The problem is that this stuff is flammable and the kit doesn't include a recovery machine or vacuum pump.

Most people who purchase this stuff probably vent the old refrigerant. (or worse yet, add it to a system which isn't low on refrigerant to begin with)

How do you charge a system properly without pulling a vacuum? Imagine what the leakstop would do to a system full of moisture.

Its a free country and as americans we should be able to buy these products if available.

If it is available for sale in the USA then someone has deemed it safe enough for even the most inexperienced klutz to use.

Like others have said before, It doesnt really cut into your hvac business... the folks using this will eventually be forced to call an ac company......

One thing they should do though is make a fitting that must be attached to the schrader permanently...something you must add to the existing equipment before attaching the r22a can.....something that cant be broken off without harming the schrader connection.

This would save a lot of hassles when an hvac guy comes out and must recover that mess from the system....

Being a true american and patriot.....Im not against homeowners being given access to all our tools and materials and also them being given the freedom to do anything they want to their hvac equipment.

Please dont bring up the argument of them getting themself killed working on their own stuff...or of harming others.....or of releasing refrigerant......

We dont like homeowners getting access to this stuff for only one reason....it cuts into our business......but what we fail to realize is that it doesnt cut into our business at all......its only a little hiccup in the system...... they are eventually going to be forced to call someone...and will probably be better prepared to pay the price after their folly.

Ive always wanted to try propane in an hvac system myself. Wouldnt mind finding an old window shaker somewhere that I could charge with propane...... Just to see how it does.

I think the pt relationship is very similar to r-22

Originally Posted by Control Man

Trouble Time

They promote the R22 replacement for Residential , Commercial A/C use , also a full line of Refrigeration oil , leak detection , leak seal , was at PRINCESS AUTO this morning big rack of it and the gauge / hose kits..

Know all about it; (love going to Toy's R us for men (Princess Auto))
I actually used the stuff in my wife's car when the condenser when, Had a leak you could hear. I put the stuff with the leak seal in it, and waited, next day I charged with the can of R12a works great, A little too cold for my liking, but it worked. That was three years ago and it is still working.
I do not like that the general unskilled public can buy it, but it works... Try it in an old car, it may surprise you.

Trouble Time

They promote the R22 replacement for Residential , Commercial A/C use , also a full line of Refrigeration oil , leak detection , leak seal , was at PRINCESS AUTO this morning big rack of it and the gauge / hose kits..

Originally Posted by Control Man

"Lets see, Canandian, is it ClipLite, or CrapLite?"

Funny how the same TYPE of CRAP was / is available at WALMART , PEP BOYS , WESTERN AUTO , every TRUCKSTOP in the USA for years until the FREON ban / laws changed died off for a bit now back on the shelf.

And its made in USA.

I did not intend to be Anti Canadian, just that is where Cliplight is. I have visited Canada a few times myself.

http://cliplight.com/contact.php?pageID=Contact_Us