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Originally Posted by Bobbycold

True is the best reach in on the market for working on.

In you're opinion lol. They have their flaws which make them not the best . . . But that's my opinion. I like a unit where I can change the cap tube of needed. GDM = fail for that. I've read about guys fishing cap tubes through the suction line but that's a PITFA.

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True, generally makes a fine reach in, reefers and freezers.

My mother told me that if I have nothing good to say about someone, don't say anything about them. My lawyers, however, tell me that I should just avoid mentioning their name. A company that sounds French and also starts with a "T" makes a terrible product and a nightmare to work on. Even when to trouble is known, and trouble shooting is irrelevent, working on these reach ins is a headache. True is the best reach in on the market for working on.

Originally Posted by Snapperhead

Is this a stand up reach in ? I just replaced drier and compressor and cut out 4 inches off cap tubes , then low was 20 high 250 holding at 0 , tech said them numbers,were perfect.

Hot compressor, both sides low, squirt did not change it , I bet you need a drier at minimum

On mine I cut drier open , found dessicant had busted out thru screen and was restricting outlet.

That's one of those things where I hate to guess what others know. It's like second nature for me to quick check if anything on the high side appears cold. A restriction outlet side of drier will cause a pressure drop down side of drier. It seems a bit condesending for me to tell fellow techs to check obvious things that they probably already checked. It's like a tech asking about a no power at compressor question and I respond with, "Is the cord plugged in?". It had to have been the first thing he checked. Am I wrong about starting my responses at a point beyond where a fellow tech should have alreay checked?

Originally Posted by MicahWes

He means that, in most cases, a replaced cap tube will continue to work until the equipment is retired.

I think it is very unusual to replace a cap tube twice.

I have never replaced a cap tube twice. Part or the reason is that after the expense of doing it, equipment owners tend to clean the condensers more, the other half of the reason is that I always use a sporlan solid core dryer.

He means that, in most cases, a replaced cap tube will continue to work until the equipment is retired.

I think it is very unusual to replace a cap tube twice. If someone claims thus, they either made sloppy mistakes during the first cap tube change, or they, rarely, genuinely have a problem case. If your techs are replacing cap tubes over and over then something is wrong and it is likely not the equipment.

As I said before...Always remember that for every unit in which we are replacing a cap tube there could be 20, 30, even 50 more identical machines that run for 20 years with no invasive service.

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As far as taking the equipment to its grave, gosh I've only been doing these conversions for a couple of years (no compressors on any of these) and I haven't killed any of them yet. I'll let you know, but I'm pretty sure that any repair will last until it dies...

I think you misinterpreted my statement in post 34. What I meant was, restoring the unit to original specs should provide enough years of additional service to take the unit to it's life expectancy. But more power to you, good luck. I like experimenting but usually not an option when under the gun.

Sorry, no pics at the moment. We got new phones in December, and they're gone, I guess. Anyway, I suppose it would look a lot like a guy on his knees strapping a new cap tube to the liquid line and stuffing everything back into place under a bar. I usually wheel the equipment off of the line into a back room or something, though. Work smarter not harder. Most of my stuff has been in kitchens.

I wouldn't install a txv in a "spot it cannot be properly fit in place." I would choose a different spot. I make a lot more money than the guy who put it together the first time, so I'll get a little creative if I have to. The repair will look professional, and will be functional when I am done.

I've done a true make table with drawers - mounted the valve externally behind the compressor, a delfield drawer unit with dual evaps. One valve in the middle that fed both, also mounted externally in a cavity next to the condenser coil -- that one was kind of cool. A couple of Victory upright reach-ins. Those are easy, though, as everything's right on top. I've done a couple of reach-in freezers, a True two-door, I think, and a Migali. Those are a pain as you have to drop the cover off of the evap assembly every time you want to make another turn on the valve.

As far as taking the equipment to its grave, gosh I've only been doing these conversions for a couple of years (no compressors on any of these) and I haven't killed any of them yet. I'll let you know, but I'm pretty sure that any repair will last until it dies...

I'd like to see some images of these mods...better yet a you tube video of you under a bar on your knees installing a tev in a spot it cannot be properly fit in place on for 1/3hp unit. Maybe on shop table as part of a refurb but on site?

From what I see on commercial kitchen equipment, a clogged cap tube usually occurs near the half way point of the coolers life expectancy. When properly renewed, a new compressor & tube will take the cooler to it's grave.

Originally Posted by 2sac

$2 worth of copper vs 15x that for a valve? I think you're wrong. When you're selling thousands of units, there is more profit with the cap tube and just rolling the dice with the warranty repairs. I don't think I've ever done warranty work for True. If the customer doesn't want to pay for a service agreement, they get what they deserve.

You could have a point there?

Originally Posted by trippintl0

Yeah, I've done lots of warranty work for True, but never run across a clogged cap tube... takes longer than the first year usually for that to happen.

We have run into a couple, so a couple times every one else that has run into a couple adds up, minus the ones that never had a cap tube restriction in warranty?

But back on track, I never replace cap tubes with cap tubes unless it is paid for by manufacturer.

I did a true warranty recently. 8 months old short to ground. Fouled up system. True asked me to just flush it out as best as possible.

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Yeah, I've done lots of warranty work for True, but never run across a clogged cap tube... takes longer than the first year usually for that to happen.

Originally Posted by trippintl0

A True TUC is an extremely small undercounter unit, I bet that would be a challenge to install a TXV in there.

I'm curious, do you ever run into design issues converting to TXV's? Like compressor starting issues, since no equalization of pressure during off cycles? Or do you ever get condensing units getting overloaded because the TXV will allow more flow than the cap tube did, especially on freezers?

And do you install receivers & sightglasses on ever conversion you do? Or just oversized drier?

This does seem extreme, and its a major modification to the original design of the equipment. Although I'm not necessarily opposed to it, I just haven't ever done it before because "resdesign" is forbidden at my company, too many potential liabilities if things don't work out right, I guess.

Curious as to how your company typically does this. It does seem convenient, since you could always have a Sporlan Q valve kit on your truck, whereas you can't possibly stock every cap tube replacement.

I have put the valve outside the box on a couple of installs - around back behind the panel, then just insulate everything very well, then 1/4 in copper to feed it to the evap coil.

No receiver, yes sight glass as nameplate charge is now out the window, and usually a c032s or c052s drier depending on the equipment.

Most commercial equipment has starting components on it, so I haven't had an issue with compressors.

No operational problems. Run it until it is near design temp, top off the charge to clear sight glass, and set superheat. The cap tube is quicker, easier, and cheaper, but it doesn't always last. Bad for the customer having it go down again, looks bad for us, and we warranty our repairs for a year so...

As far as "redesign," I have so far never ran into a unit that was still under mfg warranty with a clogged cap tube. And, although engineers and design teams are all super smart and make really good decisions mechanically every time, we take the chance.

Another mod we do is instead of counting on kitchen or maintenance people to heed the little sticker that says "clean condenser every 60 days," we put filter media on all kitchen condenser coils and replace it quarterly.

Originally Posted by EugeneTheJeep

I think the MFRs are shooting them selves in the foot, with the cost of a TXV vs the cost to pay a tech under warranty to replace compressors and cap tubes. We work for True, and we are doing this all the time.

$2 worth of copper vs 15x that for a valve? I think you're wrong. When you're selling thousands of units, there is more profit with the cap tube and just rolling the dice with the warranty repairs. I don't think I've ever done warranty work for True. If the customer doesn't want to pay for a service agreement, they get what they deserve.

Originally Posted by cjpwalker

The boss laid down the law a couple of years ago, and we no longer replace cap tubes. Convert to txv is the only option.

Originally Posted by MicahWes

Wow, that is extreme! I don't think cap tubes are THAT big of a problem. If you keep the condensers clean, they are very reliable. I know, I know....In the real world this is asking a lot.

Just remember...For every box in which we are replacing a cap tube, there are 20 more that run for years and years with no service needed.

Originally Posted by trippintl0

A True TUC is an extremely small undercounter unit, I bet that would be a challenge to install a TXV in there.

I'm curious, do you ever run into design issues converting to TXV's? Like compressor starting issues, since no equalization of pressure during off cycles? Or do you ever get condensing units getting overloaded because the TXV will allow more flow than the cap tube did, especially on freezers?

And do you install receivers & sightglasses on ever conversion you do? Or just oversized drier?

This does seem extreme, and its a major modification to the original design of the equipment. Although I'm not necessarily opposed to it, I just haven't ever done it before because "resdesign" is forbidden at my company, too many potential liabilities if things don't work out right, I guess.

Curious as to how your company typically does this. It does seem convenient, since you could always have a Sporlan Q valve kit on your truck, whereas you can't possibly stock every cap tube replacement.

I have installed the TXV in freezers dozens of times in place of the "El Cheapo we got to compete with the other low ball MFRs cap tube systems" and those systems are no longer a problem and after 5 different companies worked on it, you are the hero, and the pull down time is phenomenal. All I have ever got out of it was a happy cool running compressor, vs the over heating high super heated compressor due to the clogged Cap.

I think the MFRs are shooting them selves in the foot, with the cost of a TXV vs the cost to pay a tech under warranty to replace compressors and cap tubes. We work for True, and we are doing this all the time.

A True TUC is an extremely small undercounter unit, I bet that would be a challenge to install a TXV in there.

I'm curious, do you ever run into design issues converting to TXV's? Like compressor starting issues, since no equalization of pressure during off cycles? Or do you ever get condensing units getting overloaded because the TXV will allow more flow than the cap tube did, especially on freezers?

And do you install receivers & sightglasses on ever conversion you do? Or just oversized drier?

This does seem extreme, and its a major modification to the original design of the equipment. Although I'm not necessarily opposed to it, I just haven't ever done it before because "resdesign" is forbidden at my company, too many potential liabilities if things don't work out right, I guess.

Curious as to how your company typically does this. It does seem convenient, since you could always have a Sporlan Q valve kit on your truck, whereas you can't possibly stock every cap tube replacement.

The problem is once there is crap in the system (wax, desiccant, etc) changing the cap tube doesn't eliminate it. The txv will hold up better to this, and has a removable screen as well.

Originally Posted by cjpwalker

The boss laid down the law a couple of years ago, and we no longer replace cap tubes. Convert to txv is the only option.

Wow, that is extreme! I don't think cap tubes are THAT big of a problem. If you keep the condensers clean, they are very reliable. I know, I know....In the real world this is asking a lot.

Just remember...For every box in which we are replacing a cap tube, there are 20 more that run for years and years with no service needed.

Originally Posted by trippintl0

Good work! I will never condemn a tech for replacing a small pot compressor on a unit like that, because, even if it just had a restricted cap tube, you're still better off with a brand new compressor. As we all know, once the oil breaks down, you have a much higher chance for repeated cap tube failures. And to add to it, you heard the compressor getting noisy, so IMO you definitely did the right thing.

The boss laid down the law a couple of years ago, and we no longer replace cap tubes. Convert to txv is the only option.

Good work! I will never condemn a tech for replacing a small pot compressor on a unit like that, because, even if it just had a restricted cap tube, you're still better off with a brand new compressor. As we all know, once the oil breaks down, you have a much higher chance for repeated cap tube failures. And to add to it, you heard the compressor getting noisy, so IMO you definitely did the right thing.

Originally Posted by Kevin_1963

Update to my thread: Well, to be honest, I will never know exactly WHAT the problem was. However, when I arrived, the unit had been unplugged and sitting, waiting for me to work on. I decided to plug it in and double check things - on start up, the compressor sounded pretty bad - hopefully this wasn't from the extra few ounces I put in - and my suction took too long IMO to come down.

Either way, I had the ok to change the compressor and cap tube - did both and by the end of the day, the unit was below zero, pressures were textbook.

I have seen sitautions where the compressor got hot and stopped running, but with the noise in the kitchen and fans running, the fact that the compressor has stopped running went unnoticed. To avoid this, I look for FLA with my clamp meter.

In your case, the thing had been unplugged so it could cool down, and then you got to hear what it really sounded like when it WAS running. Another notch in the belt!