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I just recently got an "answer", if you want to call it that. "Metal Trades" is a vague term that can mean whatever the Local wants it to. I believe MT in NYC is simply Mechanical Service. In my Local, MT means Residential and Light Commercial AC. This answer gets a thumbs down.

Originally Posted by MrHVA

Learn how to weld? How would someone learn how to weld if they don't weld for a living. So, I'm sure I can take a course or BOCES class to learn how to weld but I doubt once I receive a Certificate Local 638 A side will be like "ALright hope on board Champ". I know it doesn't work this. I'm in 638B and I would love to weld and hop on over to the A side. BUT, theres this thing called "KNOWING SOMEBODY" on the A side. As some people on this site stated here unless you're buddy buddy with the BA you ain'tgetting in.

From talking to guys around the country, the guys in locals with A and B guys have problems getting along. I can tell you this, if I was on the B team and taking it in the rear on pay I would be mad at the world and if I was an A guy and some B guy wanted to come to my side and possibly bring the "it's ok to no stick together and let the wages be pushed down" attitude, I would not want him around.

Here in SF we are the same and we get along fine. I can do service or construction.

Originally Posted by hvacapprentice5

Does anyone have any information, or know anyone from Local 189 Columbus, Ohio? need to know my chances of working for a Refrigeration outfit as a Pipefitter/Refrigeration since i'm not MES.

PM me if you have any questions.

Originally Posted by MechanicallyInclined

Does you MES top off at Service Craftman i.e. Serviceman or do you have an MES Jm? Some Locals refer to their HVACR Service as Mechanical Equipment Service. Like I said, it gets real confusing.
Technically in the Pipe Trades, Plumbing and HVACR can be both Construction and Service (Truck-based). All the other trades Pipefitting/Steamfitting, Pipe Welding, etc. are generally Construction.
As far as being cross-dispatched, how well would a Construction-Pipefitter Jm fare on an Svc-HVACR Tech Jm dispatch?

Sorry, took an extended break from the site... To dig this one up out of the pits and answer your question, our MES guys stay MES until the contractor they are working for decides to sponsor them to become a journeyman. There is no hard rule that says they have to sponsor them at all. We have guys that have been MES since the day they got out of the apprenticeship 30+yrs ago. What it comes down to is how well you work, your knowledge base, not taking an absurd amount of days off, etc... If you are valuable to the contractor you will get a shot at what we call "upgrading" to building trades journeyman. Our company typically sponsors 1-2 guys a year for the upgrade.

I cannot remember the exact limits of MES but I think it's 20tons or under, no new construction, etc.. BTJ can work on everything.

My card says "Building Trades Journeyman Pipefitter Refrigeration" but I am, and always have been, service and small projects. I went through the service apprenticeship and have never taken a pipefitter class or welding.

Yep,
They are called Metal Trades and if you as much as pick up a piece of sheet metal on a building trades job they will bring you up on charges.

Local 441 in Wichita Kansas. HVAC service tech in the Building Trade.

Originally Posted by maxster

here in NYC we're Metal Trades covering start-ups repairs HVAC and such steamfitters 638B .fitters that actually do the installations,riser piping, towers any thing that handles fluids..are the 638A steamfitters.now when you look at the contractors listing for 638 Steamfitters.... B is service fitters,and A is Building Trades forget about doing any thing you want under UA on a job it is well defined here.get caught with a 24" pipe wrench or B tank over your shoulder unannouced they will be calling the BA in...LUNCH BREAK and then there is this group... http://www.nyspipetrades.org/

Are you saying your Local is "Metal Trades", but yet you work on heavy metal? That doesn't make sense.

I'll stay as a Pipe Fitter who works on repair of mechanical equipment. Occasionally installing it.

There's no way that HVACR Technology can be classified as Pipefitting!

Does anyone have any information, or know anyone from Local 189 Columbus, Ohio? need to know my chances of working for a Refrigeration outfit as a Pipefitter/Refrigeration since i'm not MES.

Because the training is separate. Even though most of the skills are common the Service Contractors are very specific that they want service training only. They want second year Apprentices to fix any roof top equipment thrown at them. They do not want any influence from Construction, they as afraid Apprentices may be influenced to jump to construction. Yet they insist on a lower scale.

Originally Posted by Jimmyhat 597

In 597 all Apprentices are classified as Building Trades. Many Contractors have Service and Construction. So a building trades Apprentice can work for an HVAC Contractor.

Then why do they make you (apprentice) choose HVAC or BT when you sign up?

If I'm not mistaken, Industrial Construction Jm is $4.30/Hr. higher than Commercial Construction Jm. Both Service and Construction are Building Trades. There's no Metal Trades in Local 469, but they will accept a MT Jm Traveler as a "residential and light commercial AC tech". This makes better sense that a Local classifying all HVACR Service as Metal Trades.

Does 469 have a split scale for Construction?

Local 469 has a split scale which is comparable to some Locals' A, B, and C Cards. The highest is Applied Service Jm and then comes Commercial Service Jm.

Okay thanks i'm in Local 469 AZ

In 597 all Apprentices are classified as Building Trades. Many Contractors have Service and Construction. So a building trades Apprentice can work for an HVAC Contractor.

Originally Posted by hvacapprentice5

Being a building trades Apprentice do you still have a chance to work for Hvac-R contractor?

Try reading through the first 44 posts to this thread. I think somewhere in there it mentions that it depends on what local you are in. By the way, what local are you in?

Being a building trades Apprentice do you still have a chance to work for Hvac-R contractor?

Wow that is cool about the open door policy. There's nothing better than to hear Union members getting long. UNITED we stand, DIVIDED we fall!!