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I've seen this a few times when years ago the local utility company offered rebates for switching to natural gas appliances. If installing a gas furnace and keeping the outdoor unit of a heat pump system, they required you to make it straight AC only (they did not allow dual fuel setups for the rebate). Personally, I only did one of this conversion type since the heat pump was only 2 years old, but I just changed the wiring so it couldn't run in heat mode and gave them the option to convert back in the future. The utility was satisfied with this method and they got their rebate.

i go on new construction jobs all the time such as today where the rooftop units are straight a/c and electric heat....i have no idea why..... especially when they are 460 volt...dont draw hardly any amperage...compressor fla is around 8 and the 25.7kw heaters draw 27 amps

I found similar on a non working 5 ton condenser... only the call was, no cooling in the resturant... the accumulator, and the RV were removed... and left open. I asked how long the system was down for... 6 months!
apparently last winter the heat went out, and the answer was to add 15KW duct heaters, and cut out the offending part from the heat pump...

I pulled the miswired heaters, and installed a new 5 ton heat pump (cash up front of course)... lowered their heat bill 600/month...

Id have convinced him to just throw down the money for the RV. I think when he opens up his electric bill this winter he would agree.

So i assume the reversing valve failed because obviously you wouldn't remove it if it was operating in cooling since the electric heat works

Originally Posted by keeplearnin

awesome stuff. Why in the world would somebody remove a reversing vlv?

The rev.valve most likely quit actuating
I have to admit i pulled one out this weekend myself. It was at a buddy's house and he didn't have have the money to buy a new valve at the present time. I gave him labor but i wasn't gonna buy the part. I saw no reason to pull the accumulator. His air handler has plenty or electric heat. Does this make me a hack?

the bi.flow drier was coming apart and got trash in the capillaries that move the slide. also replaced the clogged drier, pulled and cleaned the evaporator, and even washed his blower wheel too..

Hey you gotta do what you gotta do
Beer can cold
The dreaded " tail light guarantee
I probably have worked with the guys you are talking about not only is it the technicians fault but some fault with the employers
No training just asses to fill up van seats to sell new equipment

jeremyjp I agree that there needs to be something done about unlicensed work start with reasonable requirements for taking their test.Time in the field is a good one then they do a background check.these are excellent andshould beused to sit for the test.Then here they want one year supervisory experience with a letter from contractor or engineer.The ones I worked for (contractor) fear competition where is thieir insentive to be honest about your experience with them.Main point I have been behind licensed guys who have done hack work described in here so it is not always unlicensed guy doing this but sometimes licensed.Thank you

Originally Posted by dunkman

I love finding stuff like that. Looks like a perfect candidate for a new system. I wouldn't even consider trying to make that thing "work." That's not even a possibility.

I found one last fall, about a 3 year old Arcoaire system. Furnace was installed with a R22 coil w/txv. They must have set the OD later and realized it was a 410a unit. They had just dumped the r410a and put in r22. Friggin idiot hacks.

All they would have had to do is swap the indoor txv and it would have been good to go. I offered to do that for them, but explained it's probably too late to save it anyway. We replaced the whole system.

nice picture I havent seen one that froze over expeciaslly two lol it must of been drinkin that liquid up

That filter dryer is also in the wrong location.

Originally Posted by dunkman

I love finding stuff like that. Looks like a perfect candidate for a new system. I wouldn't even consider trying to make that thing "work." That's not even a possibility.

I found one last fall, about a 3 year old Arcoaire system. Furnace was installed with a R22 coil w/txv. They must have set the OD later and realized it was a 410a unit. They had just dumped the r410a and put in r22. Friggin idiot hacks.

All they would have had to do is swap the indoor txv and it would have been good to go. I offered to do that for them, but explained it's probably too late to save it anyway. We replaced the whole system.

From my math, ignoring the oil compatibility issues, that should have left the system with about 70% of its original cooling capacity, and an underloaded compressor motor, ouch.


From the Samsung rotary compressor site I am seeing about a 742 BTU/h per CC per revolution for R22 but about 1037 BTU/hr per CC per rev for R410a

I love finding stuff like that. Looks like a perfect candidate for a new system. I wouldn't even consider trying to make that thing "work." That's not even a possibility.

I found one last fall, about a 3 year old Arcoaire system. Furnace was installed with a R22 coil w/txv. They must have set the OD later and realized it was a 410a unit. They had just dumped the r410a and put in r22. Friggin idiot hacks.

All they would have had to do is swap the indoor txv and it would have been good to go. I offered to do that for them, but explained it's probably too late to save it anyway. We replaced the whole system.

Originally Posted by allan38

I've seen similar garbage but not all at once. I've also seen it as a temporary measure to get cooling until parts arrived.. Someone may have dropped the ball or didn't care. I've heard the phrase "It looks good from my house".

1. They changed the system from Heat pump to AC only. I've seen a company do that until the reversing valve came in. (the tech originally burned up the replacement and had to backorder another) The customer expects you to get him cooling when they call you in 100 degree weather.


2. I've seen them sticking out into the attic air, apparently since the original install many many years ago. A senior tech once explained to me "When the pressure bulb on the TXV has a partial charge, moving it into the airstream or attic may cause it to partially open and then you charge it like a fixed orifice. Just as a temporary fix until you can get the back ordered txv installed."

Leaving a system like this as a final repair is inexcusable.

Originally Posted by cdac

I'd say this probably began with a realtor..
What we find is that a realtor believes their job is to get everything for as close to free as possible in order to make the deal and get the commission. This results in them finding the cheapest contractor they can that will get them "past the inspection" which we all know is goofball running around taking temp splits and calling it and hvac assessment as part of the home inspection. (He also verifies hot on left cold on right @ each lav.... valuable stuff..) This one "could" have produced good splits if it was set up as a conventional a/c w/ electric heat & timed just right before the charge was gone. The contractor that will do this is he guy Chris Hansen warns our customers about and makes all of us look bad. Realtors will continue to search for a contractor til they get the answer - price - they are looking for. They look at our business as a comodity and fail to realize that cheap does not equal good. The rest of us get the pleasure of delivering the bad news, the home buyer gets and the industry image takes another hit. I'm sure you already did this but I can't stress it enough -document, document, document. Don't leave anything out of your repair estimate. This buyer, IMHO, was defrauded and your estimate is likely to end up as plaintiff's exhibit__ and it will need to help justify the reasons the seller/realtor/previous contractor should be held responsible for the system replacement cost. Good Luck.

One of the two posts quoted is probably the origin of the non-HP.

Not common, but I have seen this a few times... amazing what a hack will do.

Regardless... as noted in the second quote above: Do a THOROUGH inspection, write a few paragraphs as to what is wrong (yeah, slice the previous guys work to shreds), and give a detailed quote to replace the entire system.

Im a Bryant dealer and i thought Carrier was supposed to be the experts!

Originally Posted by keeplearnin

awesome stuff. Why in the world would somebody remove a reversing vlv?

That's an easy one to answer, probabiy didn't need it any more!

You need a few more years in the business, after near 30 years that mess is almost every day stuff.
Just when i think I have seen it all I find something I never dreamed of.

Unbelievable!!!! That is a disgrace to our trade. Must be the work of the un-licensed people who under-bid "us" licensed contractors who are just trying to stay alive as a business.

You haven't seen it all yet

Over 40 yrs doing this, YOU CANNOT IMAGINE WHAT I HAVE SEEN!! GONNA CARRY MY CAMERA!

Originally Posted by JWadelHVAC

Went to a new customers house today. They moved into the house a week ago. Called about the EAC making a zapping noise and fan not cycling off. EAC very dirty of course. That was the least of their problems. Went out side to check the heat pump. This is what I found. Reversing valve completely removed along with the accumulator. Compressor windings shorted and 10psi on the gauges. Did a leak check. Evap coil leaking and the TXV sensing bulb just dangling there. This is a 02 Carrier Puron system.
Have any of you techs come across this mess before. I have no clue why someone would do this.

diy: we don't need no stinkin heat pump!!

I'd say this probably began with a realtor..
What we find is that a realtor believes their job is to get everything for as close to free as possible in order to make the deal and get the commission. This results in them finding the cheapest contractor they can that will get them "past the inspection" which we all know is goofball running around taking temp splits and calling it and hvac assessment as part of the home inspection. (He also verifies hot on left cold on right @ each lav.... valuable stuff..) This one "could" have produced good splits if it was set up as a conventional a/c w/ electric heat & timed just right before the charge was gone. The contractor that will do this is he guy Chris Hansen warns our customers about and makes all of us look bad. Realtors will continue to search for a contractor til they get the answer - price - they are looking for. They look at our business as a comodity and fail to realize that cheap does not equal good. The rest of us get the pleasure of delivering the bad news, the home buyer gets and the industry image takes another hit. I'm sure you already did this but I can't stress it enough -document, document, document. Don't leave anything out of your repair estimate. This buyer, IMHO, was defrauded and your estimate is likely to end up as plaintiff's exhibit__ and it will need to help justify the reasons the seller/realtor/previous contractor should be held responsible for the system replacement cost. Good Luck.

Originally Posted by keeplearnin

awesome stuff. Why in the world would somebody remove a reversing vlv?

Sounds like someone tried to make an A/C out of it....