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Did anyone ever get their hands on the flash presenation? I'm still kicking myself for not having saved it.

Originally Posted by Aauman88

The installers actually tied the 1/4" pilot line from SPR into the condensor header. This is our/my first rack like this so I am currently going over the 204 pages of the Tyler manual before I start flagging too many wrong things

depending if your controller is capable you can do the SPR setup with a couple solenoids and some programming, read up on the ENVIROGUARD III in the Tyler rack manual, its not that big of a section,

section #26 in this book

http://www.hillphoenix.com/tyler/mec...ual-lowrez.pdf

Mike

I have just inherited a store that has the Tyler EnviroGuard system in it and will definitely be revisiting this thread. It was recently installed in new store using reconditioned equipment and I am 98% sure it will be a headache until I correct some issues. The installers actually tied the 1/4" pilot line from SPR into the condensor header. This is our/my first rack like this so I am currently going over the 204 pages of the Tyler manual before I start flagging too many wrong things

Originally Posted by Marc O'Brien

I did post a reply to the other thread you started on this topic.

About 10 years ago now I did one of my first Flash Presentations which just happened to be on the Enviroguard system. For about a year I was commissioning them at the rate of about 1 a week.

Have a look at this link...

Enviroguard Presentation

The presentation even has setting instructions for the SPR Valve.

Remember, very importantly, these systems do not have subcool. They should never have subcool. the "quick diagram" states subcooled liquid but this is in reality not true.

Since these system float the head they require more refrigerant than a standard system - hense the side vessel.

Here is a copy and paste of my reply to the other thread you started...

The idea here is to float the head pressure and so drop the annual energy costs by up to 40% compared to a fixed head pressure system

This system is usually coupled with electric defrost because sometimes the head pressure can get so low the liquid line freezes - this means low heat-flux from the hot (or Kool) gas.

There is no subcooling designed into the system. Unless you use a liquid pump (Hysave LPA) you have to locate these systems a good few meters above all the evaporators and you most certainly cannot run your liquid lines up or even any significant horizontal distance before going down. Liquid lines generally must go down about 5m before going horizontal.

During summer and high load conditions there is greater flash gas in the evaps and so less liquid there and the warmer liquid in the liquid line expands and the liquid volumes collecting in the condenser tubes reduces and so the side vessel is used to store the excess liquid not needed for summer. During winter the velocity through the condenser slows and so liquid collects there, the cooler liquid in the liquid line is more dense (less voluminous) and there is less flash gas in the evaporator causing liquid levels there to increase which all leads to the need for greater system refrigerant charge in winter which comes from the side vessel.

There is a tube running from the SPR valve to a larger tube, normally with a sight glass, that is charged with the same refrigerant as the system, that sits outside the unit in the air-on but out of the sunshine. The SPR valve compares head pressure to ambient temperature via this tube system and if head pressure rises say 14K above ambient then it is assumed that there is too much liquid in the condenser, raising head pressure unecessarily causing greater power consumption, also starting to cause unwanted subcooling, and so the SPR valve opens to drain liquid from the condenser and into the side vessel.

A small continuous draining from the side vessel to the system suction via a discharge desuperheating heatexchanger takes place to ensure the system has more liquid available anytime as conditions change during the day and seasons.

One of the other advantages of this system is that it tells you very early on if you have a refrigerant leak. Case temperatures rise very soon after a small amount of refrigerant is lost.

Almost a 6 year bump

Any chance anyone has the presentation?

I would fix your PLC issue,start there, if its 60psi higher than gague you are going to have to fix that

and you better check your compressor high pressure safeties!

I am working on a Tyler enviroguard 3, my head pressure is erratic causing the spr solenoid to stay open and dump all the gas into the surge tank "receiver". I've changed the discharge transducer, but controller still shows on average 60lbs higher then my gauges show. Before I started on this, somebody had recovered all the freon because they thought they had air in ten system. I have to close spr ball valve to keep system running normal. Any advice?

Enviroguard section in detail...

http://www.hillphoenix.com/tyler/mec...ual-lowrez.pdf

tyler rack

I work for a company that is putting in a supermarket for a customer that has bought used hill/phoenix cases and a tyler (envireguard) low temp. rack 1991 model# P9OL-31 SERIAL # w628933 And a warren/sheer medium temp. rack. I basically need to answer three questions. 1.) How do I determine the total heat of rejection of the rack and the condenser? I want to make sure that the codenser is large enough for the rack prior to pipping it in. 2.) Should I replace the old DDR valve with a new LDR valve? And if so what is the difference between a OLDR and a LDR valve? And should it be energized or deenergized to create the 20 psig differental to allow the condensed hot gas back to the rack through the liquid line? 3.) Is it a major job to take out the old A78 paragon timer modules and replace it with a cpc controller?

Thanks,

Mckim

NC2

I'm in the process of figuring out this system even thjough I hardly even work on any anymore, I actually went to a cal last saturday before reading or seeing this thread and I copied down the 3 valve model numbers

reciever inlet sporlan OLDR-15
Reciever bypass sporlan E3452110
reciever pressureizer sporlan special pressure reg valve, CROT U -6 80/200

i gotta look in to it and hopefully i can figure it out in my own way

Mike

didn't even cross my mind...stay warm

I was just wondering if you thought I was full of it. I swear I am not.

Originally Posted by Dowadudda

what's that suppose to mean. I aint bsing you. I swear. I am dead serious.

i didn't mean anything by it...i learn from what you have to say. merely the conversation that took place had alot to read...did i piss you off or something cause i cant buy you a beer from here pshhh

Originally Posted by sumdumguy

This is truly a thread to book mark

what's that suppose to mean. I aint bsing you. I swear. I am dead serious.

he doesn't have gas defrost he said.

The OLDR valve is the Liquid Line Pressure Differential Regulating Valve (N.O. = Fails Open & is Open when the coil is de-energized) It is to keep the liquid header flowing to the refrigerating case circuits with the liquid returning from the defrosting case circuit. To set it right; you have to factor in the elevation if your rack is in a roof house...

See Sporlan Bulletin F90-60-2 August 1989

Originally Posted by Dowadudda

Hey Marc,

Awesome to have such an intelligent guy on board. Really. I think your contributions here are going to be hugely appreciated.

My company employed the guy who developed the enviroguard system. I still service the store where it was all drempt up.

This is truly a thread to book mark

now you got me confused. But were here to learn. Me too. Track this down. Then we can all benefit. Take some pics.

Your stat and liquid line solenoid is for sure natures cooling. If the OLDR to the receiver is an older, then it must reduce receiver pressure during natures cooling. but that doesn't make sense right off the cuff and I have not seen it like that.

Originally Posted by Dowadudda

YOU have natures cooling brother man. Holy crap, I didn't read your whole post, I seen enviroguard and got all spastic cause I know the dude who invented it. Tyler had to get back to you on this, I am afraid to talk with that engineer if he had no idea what you were asking. Natures cooling was their big contribution in this big world.

It's not an OLDR. It's a N.O. solenoid pilot operated valve. When the stat senses drop leg temp, below a certain drop leg temp, the liquid line solenoid energizes OPEN, at the same time energizing the N.O. valve to receiver, closing it. In this way, we put the receiver into a manipulated surge, instead of flow through configuration.

The Receiver Pressure regulator is there, bullheaded of discharge to maintain minimum receiver pressure.

Now all the manufacturers are copying that.

You do not have an enviroguard.

on the valve thereis a tag the says OLDR pressure regulating valve and i just happen to find a manual that talks of envirogaurd with same components . I willl check to see if the manualspeaks on nature cooling

Originally Posted by jaybee

I have 5 racks with this type of system . I am not sure how to figure out what version of enviroguard it is and nor do i fully understand the concept tyler is implimenting.Here goes , drop leg comes down condensor tees off to an oldr going to the receiver and a solinoid in the liquid line going out to the cases. I see no subcooler in the systems. Also , there is a pressure regulator at the receiver, No hold back valve present( thinking the oldr is acting as a hold back valve). The oldr and the solinoid is being controlled by a t-stat that is on the drop leg of the condenser.Found some lit on this ,but is not sure if i fully understand.If anyone could brake this down to me it will be grately appriciated.

YOU have natures cooling brother man. Holy crap, I didn't read your whole post, I seen enviroguard and got all spastic cause I know the dude who invented it. Tyler had to get back to you on this, I am afraid to talk with that engineer if he had no idea what you were asking. Natures cooling was their big contribution in this big world.

It's not an OLDR. It's a N.O. solenoid pilot operated valve. When the stat senses drop leg temp, below a certain drop leg temp, the liquid line solenoid energizes OPEN, at the same time energizing the N.O. valve to receiver, closing it. In this way, we put the receiver into a manipulated surge, instead of flow through configuration.

The Receiver Pressure regulator is there, bullheaded of discharge to maintain minimum receiver pressure.

Now all the manufacturers are copying that.

You do not have an enviroguard.

Originally Posted by Marc O'Brien

Thanks for the vote of confidence, Dowa :-)

I understood it was two guys? Were they techs on the tools or maybe design engineers?

It was two guys. The initial theory was developed by a technician. He then worked with a design guy as I understood it. I am gonna try to get him to come on here. I don't know him all that well, but I now work with a guy who worked directly under him for many years. I'll see if I can't get him to come on here and talk about it. I am sure he'd be flattered. He is like that, Very humble as I am to understand. I also know he did not make that much off it. He made some coin but not a lot.