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Coolwhip and Dowadudda,

It's still not as bad here as it was in 1980 to 1983. They were very bad times for Michigan, I hope it doesn't get that bad again.

Originally posted by outside rep
Yeah as much as you all bitch of cost of everthing try living with less


house is bigger than my parents
have three cars and there only two of us
have five tv's and there is only two of us
have three bathrooms and there is only two of us
half of the tvs have surrond sound and on of them is a projector
have all the cable channles and high speed internet
two cell phones fax line and home line that is threw vonage
spend at least two to three hundred for fun stuff that dont need


And I complain about not having enough money no wonder I waste all of it on stuff that i dont need


Just like the rest of the US


i thinking of getting a smaller house with less bathrooms and less junk


So maybe I wont half to work and she will LOL


Nah got alot of interviews next week

I am only 25 try to find some one else in the world thats doing just as good or better in another country with just a high school education.

To do anything with your life you must be willing to push push push push push and if you dont SCREW YOU AND QUIT BITCHING about how little you have money is made to spend and thats it what are you going to do with all that money you save, Give it to Satan when you go to hell

Or you can give it to me when we meet down there LOL

Just a few things I think who knows who esle agrees but what ever

But do you own them ? or just making payments ?

There is a big difference.

Debt should not be mistaken for wealth or class,a lesson this admintistration needs to learn also.

I can understand very well with coolwhips' posts. I kmnow him for one, and he lives in Suburban Detroit MI. It's amazing here guys. Say what ever about a UAW guy on the line. But. The face of our economy, it's "state of affairs" shows deeper and faster here in Motor City than anywhere else in this country. Economists for years would have a saying about Detroit.

"If Detroit has a cold, the country has the flu".

Many of you look at this place me and coolwhip live and see overpaid UAW line workers. Yeagh, okay. But. Research, Engineering, Raw Materials like steel, plastics ect, automation is huge, the largest customer of health insurance in the world not country is the Big 3. This was the heart beat of America. It's not always about the Sneaker Factory worker as it was in times past.

It's dismal here. Like a nuclear bomb is going off. It will trckle to all of you. There has been such massive loss of Jobs in MI, it's almost hard to beleive.

I don't know the answers, I don't know the real reasons. All I am seeing is lost hope everywhere I go around here.

I jus wanna add a thing to two to what I just wrote.

Firstly, if you were in need, of any kind ... and you came to my door, I would try my best to provide for that need. No matter if you saw things the was I do or not.
No matter what color you were or what you smoked.

So dont go off on me about religion or beliefs or whatever ... cause that is NOT what this is all about.

It is about knowing Who is on FIRST!!!


And whenever I see posts written about trusting the governing body to provide for all our needs ...and claiming that whenever something doenst go right ... it's someone else's fault .... well ... they are only doing what humans do.
They try and sometimes get it right ... and sometimes get it wrong.
But the ultimate responsibility is on OUR SHOULDERS, not theirs!!!





I didnt look into what "church" Jesse Jackson goes to so I could criticise them for his actions.
I simply label the man based upon the fruit of his life.
He is branded because his life doesnt measure up to what standards he himself claims he lives by.


And I didnt go blaming Bush's church for his actions either.
Bush, as does Jackson, they stand alone upon their own merit.
And believe you me, they dont even compare with one another!!!

Bush is a man and Jackson is.... lost. At least Bush is trying.



So dont one of you go blaming "the church" or some religious group for what took place or what didnt go your way!!!
Cause you'd just be demonstratig you dont know which end is up.



And in like manner, when something goes wrong, I dont blame the democrats. And whenever something does go right .. I dont give credit to the other party in office.

Stuff happens. It goes well .... and it sometimes goes ... no so well.

Put the blame where it belongs ... on yours and my shoulders. Not somebody you dont even know.

Call me simple minded ... but I know who my Daddy is!!!
And it's NOT the STATE!!!

It's NOT FEMA!
It's NOT the Red Cross or some other agency who comes to help pick up the pieces whenever something falls apart!

Whom are you living for?
Who ya gonna serve?


If your hope is in the STATE .... your dumber than dirt! They have people ...flesh and blood people wrking for them. And as we all know ... people make mistakes! People fail at times.
That's because people are NOT perfect!


And I dont care if you live in Switzerland, Taipei or Rio Deginero .... people are people. And you have to realise the limits people can live up to.


No matter how much effort we give into making FEMA the best it can be ... it will NEVER ever take the place of where we need to put out hope and trust.


But until such time as we come to grips with reality ... meaning that people fail and Jesus does not .... we cannot begin to fathom what is really going on when a disaster takes place.



Are we gonna rely on ourselves to survive?

Or do we trust the same God our Founding Fathers of this great Nation trusted?
They had a Bible in one hand and a rifle in the other. And their neighbor was pretty much right beside them. And their family followed in their footsteps. and THEY WERE "the government"! They WERE the governing body of that day.

But today ... everyone wants to be lazy and have someone in a sterile office build make decisions that affect our family's lives and futures.
We abdacated our authority over to someone who in turn, sells to the highest bidder.


Above all people's of the Earth, we are the most to be pittied!
Cause we had it all .. and forefitted it over to others.



If we trust the gov to be our advocate, we are fools.
And if we trust ourselves to be self reliant, we are in no different situation.

call it a sixth sense or whatever...but I can also feel it happening...our govt. is top heavy...very much so...after surviving Katrina and seeing the slow response from the Feds...what would happen if a major terroist strike hit Washington?....how is our govt goning to pay for the war, the hurricane cleanup/relief effort...gas is going up..up..up...productivity is going down..we depend on foreign oil...a major hit on the oil industry would bring this country to its knees...begging...no I am not a doomsayer..but look around..it is going to happen sooner or later..and probably sooner...Katrina taught me a lesson..for a week our small town was totally cut off...no incoming gas, food, medical, electrcity..communication with the outside world was none existant.....we had to survive on our on..neighbor helping neighbor..we had to siphon gas from vehicles just to supply generators...2 mile long lines just for ice and a little food..and that was just for a week...another week and it would have been neighbor against neighbor...it is coming guys and there is not anything we can do....except prepare..somewhere I have read "the living shall envy the dead"...that is the worst case scenerio..but who knows what would happen if our govt. toppled....are you ready?..are you prepared?....hopefully I am wrong....but what if??????

Its the baby boomers fault
the begining of the consumerism juggernaught just due to the sheer size of the population growth. to keep the growth going during teh next generation they had to produce more and market more and convince us to consume more convince us we needed well MORE. More? everything more tvs more cars bigger homes more clothes more toys more recreational stuff more more more. life has been supersized.


we need to return to simpler values simpler lives. This would give us the time to enjoy what really matters.
Family, Health, a warm fall day of sunshine taking your kids to the beach for a day with a picnic lunch no tailgating with all the crap just a blanket and some sandwiches some coffee in a thermos a bucket and spade a camera and a coat if it gets cold
Simple family fun
Your kids will remember this for a far longer time than what they got for christmas
Having 5 tvs in a home that is far too large is an example of brainwashed consumerism run amok just as having 150 tv channels
When I was a kid we had one bw tv and one channel so the tv was on or off period
If you want to relieve yourself of excessive conssumerism you have to accept that your possessions do not define whom you are they camoflarge you they hide you they distract you they get in the way of what really matters
It is hard getting off the consumer juggernaught I found it hard but the payoff is that I'm much more focused on true values like family, health, enjoying life.
I'm not the riches guy out there and most likely I will live from paycheque to paycheque till I die but I will get by as I have always done. I have downsized my life and refocused. I dont care that my truck is 14 yrs old or our car is 11 they both run and are safe. I am going to do my best to raise my kids with better values than consumming as much as they possibly can

Health insurance is very very costly. Auto insurance is costly, in some places. Homeowners insurance is very costly in some places. Auto mobiles are costly. The cost of real estate is high. Through the ages people have dealt with the cost of things. Most business cost increases get passed to the customer or employees.

This would start a trend : 7 day Menu
Pork & Beans Franks
Chicken cook on a stove.
Eat the leftovers.
Hot Dogs or hambugers cooked outside in the backyard.
Tuna cassarole
Cream Of Wheat,Cook Oatmeal
Eggs-bacon

If the whole counrty did this for a week we could save alot of money and send a message to Drive-in-take outs,gas companys and Walmart.

Try it for a month I saved alot being with out work lost some weight too.

Originally posted by trane
I don't have the answer but maybe one of you have a better idea of how this change that we need is going to come about.

it will happen the same way everything else does all of the sudden
it will happen when people realize you get what you settle for

Originally posted by outside rep
Yeah as much as you all bitch of cost of everthing try living with less


house is bigger than my parents
have three cars and there only two of us
have five tv's and there is only two of us
have three bathrooms and there is only two of us
half of the tvs have surrond sound and on of them is a projector
have all the cable channles and high speed internet
two cell phones fax line and home line that is threw vonage
spend at least two to three hundred for fun stuff that dont need


And I complain about not having enough money no wonder I waste all of it on stuff that i dont need


Just like the rest of the US


i thinking of getting a smaller house with less bathrooms and less junk


So maybe I wont half to work and she will LOL


Nah got alot of interviews next week

I am only 25 try to find some one else in the world thats doing just as good or better in another country with just a high school education.

To do anything with your life you must be willing to push push push push push and if you dont SCREW YOU AND QUIT BITCHING about how little you have money is made to spend and thats it what are you going to do with all that money you save, Give it to Satan when you go to hell

Or you can give it to me when we meet down there LOL

Just a few things I think who knows who esle agrees but what ever

Ain't that no $hit. When I was a kid we grew a garden. Had one car, burnt wood for heat. our house was a little 700 sq. foot pad and that was for six people. For recreation I got a gun and a bundle of traps. There was no four wheeler, snowmobile, vacations or any of that other crap. Folks are whining how bad it is but as a whole we have more than ever before. And the real kick in the a$$ I miss all that hunting and trapping. Heck yea muskrat hides were 5 bucks a pop, a few dozen rats and that was big bucks.

I agree with most things you guys have said but it has to make you wonder if most all of us feel things are not the way they should be why isn't it changing. We are just a few but you would assume the majority of the population feels that the government is not working for them any more but is instead working against them in some ways.

We keep voting for the best person to get the job done for us but it never happens for reasons already mentioned. The government is a runaway train with nobody trying to stop it at this point. What is it going to take to get things back to the way the majority want them? My dad has told me for years that the government will be overthrown someday because its the only way and I will admit I see no other way.

But how long will we continue in the path we are headed? I don't know but it worries me what my kids are going to be dealing with when i'm gone. I don't have the answer but maybe one of you have a better idea of how this change that we need is going to come about.

dhvac

You said it well. I have similar thoughts.
I know I will get mugged for this, but many, many of the problems today are directly due to the start of the 'welfare programs'. Thats when the government became our parents. Thats when we started to discover that we were not responsible for ourselves. It also helped create the population explosion. It is when we let the government take control.
Now we have a government that is at least 3 times too big and into many areas that the government should not be into, like into our homes, telling us how we should deal with our children - they are the ones that started telling people how to raise their children - you do this(or don't do this ) or will arrest you, and charge you with abuse.
Also we have let the minority rule - even when the minority is just one or two people - such as the prayer in school fiasco.

Oh well nuf said,
PS - I don;t read papers or watch the news anymore - haven't for years
Richard

Ok so where does this all start??
Jobs going over seas and to Mexico, why do you think that is?
Well part of it is everyone thinks they are worth more than they are
For example not too long ago when I got out of tech school and started in the field I did it for a whopping $6.50 an hour and folks I am not old
I worked my way up to about 9 in 2 years because I worked my ass off and was at work to get the raises

Now (this will get me blasted I’m sure) you have unions that constantly demand that employees get paid more and more
These same people that want to make 20 an hour to stand on a line in a factory and do a job that a 6 yr old could do, want to beat everyone up for the price on everything so they can have even more

As far as the good old days my parents did not have cable, internet, cell phones, 2 or 3 or 4 cars, multiple TV’s, DVD players, we ate at home probably 360 nights a year (home being either our own home or when we went to a family members for dinner and ate whet they actually cooked)

My dad packed his lunch everyday for many years (still does) we didn’t get to buy $200 shoes for school

We never had anything designer unless mom saw it on the rack at goodwill

I didn’t know anyone that had 100k worth of credit cards

So if you really look at it, maybe it all comes back to that fact that parents have spoiled there kids a little too much, never made them work for anything they got, these same kids who will not show up for work on time for 5 days in a row
These same kids that think the world owes them a living
Theses same kids who when they do work they have no real education or experience and demand top dollar for shitty work at best
These same kids that are now adults and running this country into the dirt

I could go on forever but then no one would read it anyway

It's a no-brainer that we can work harder and smarter to maintain our current level of living. The question is why that is so.

Historically, we've lived pretty much inflation free for many years now. This came with a hidden cost. Now the chickens have come home to roost. (Sorry for that analogy Bigbird).

So what we gained for all of those years was simply at the expense of the future. If we hadn't bought the foreign merchandise, the cost of living would have gone up more every year.

If you want things back the way they used to be, then the trade balance must go back to what it used to be. But you must be prepared to accept the cost of inflation that goes with it.

welcome to your Walmart world.

...where the US debt (growing every day) is held in the hands of border-line third-world countries.

this is the price we pay for 'needing' our fix of V8 cars and giant SUVs, among other 'luxuries'.

Originally posted by Diceman
The problem is you need money to run for politics, and when you get money they expect favors, and until we change that, it will be an uphill battle for a decent, honest person to win a major election.
I considered running but you guys need me here...

That pretty much says it there. It is never what is best for the country any more. You have a bunch of polititions that do everything to get more for their states wether it is a road to nowhere or a bridge with no road even to it . All they want is more money going to their state so it gets them more votes. Washington full of lobyists getting support for every corrupt thing out there. How many polititians sons have a job making a bundle doing nothing just to get their dads support for the business they work for. It just goes on and on and is getting worse. Its not a case of raising the lower class up. Its dragging the middle class down to the lower class. Just look at how they are acting about the people in New Orleans, they act as if there was no lower class there and now claim that they are shocked they did not realize it. Get real you can't raise the class of some people not will to do what it takes to get ahead but convinse the liberals of that. In their view you cannot survive without the government thinking for you. WHAT A JOKE.

The problem is you need money to run for politics, and when you get money they expect favors, and until we change that, it will be an uphill battle for a decent, honest person to win a major election.
I considered running but you guys need me here...

It's the fault of John Q. Public that all of this is going on.

We want CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP, period. Just in our industry, everyone wants the lowest price. They hit us contractors for bottom dollar, we hit the distributor, the distributor hits the manufacturer and there's just so low they can go. They can cheapen the product which they certainly have done. The next step is find cheaper labor. And that cheaper labor is Mexico, China, all over the place. I remember when there was a work action at the local Carrier furnace factory. The gang there felt $15 an hour was too low for just standing there putting a part in a furance as it goes by. But a Mexican will do it for $2 and hour and in China, I hear they pay less. My experience says products made in China seem to work better than those made south of us.

So until Americans are willing to pay for products made by Americans, we will lose more & more jobs to 3rd world countries.

I worked retail for 15 years before HVAC. I saw it there too. We had products made in Japan & Korea that worked great but in order to be competitive, production was shipped to China to get the prices down. When I first started retail, I didn't see the cheap mentality. Then came the discount stores, the stores like Best Buy all pushing price over service. Nothing but price.

I just wonder how much are govt. expects us to take? Reading that thread about how the credit companies plan to double minumum payments after this bankruptcy law comes to pass infuriated me. I dont have much credit debt but I am still paying off 70 grand in school loans. I cant even read the papers anymore because it depresses me for two days. I dont mean to sound militant bit this shit has got to stop. We need some to rally the troops. Someone cunning and witty.