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Originally Posted by climate master

I have a customer with and open loop titanium evap. After eliminating other possible issues have detemined evap to be fouled with algae/ slime/ snot whatever you care to call it. Upon open inspection of evap water side found significant white slime insulating evap tube bundle. What is the recommended treatment/ratio for cleaing/flushing. Have rotting/punched tooooo many condenser tube to fathom but usually the evap water side is closed loop and the water treatment company handles it. Not the case for commercial fish hatchery. recomendations please

I use a product called "Citranox" for this exact problem. You will need to elevate the solution temperature for the best results.


Before and after pictures.

Attachment 336711


Attachment 336721

Originally Posted by Healey Nut

Years ago Trane offered auto tube cleaning as an option . Each tube had a small basket attached to each end of the tube and there was a brush in each basket . There was a wrap around loop of piping and some automatic valves that would change position to reverse the flow through the bundle on a timed cycle, the change in flow would fire the brush through the tube . Never seen one in action and dont know how well it worked .
I think the idea got dropped due to expense and the fact that the chiller looked like a giant octopus with piping everywhere .

I used to take care of 2 machines that had them. The piping wasn't bad at all but they were in a giant mechanical room. They worked very well. Brushes have to be replaced after some time as would be expected but it can be done quite a bit faster then brushing all the tubes. Never seen anything automatic for a barrel with water in shell. But I really like the auto brush trane had.

Originally Posted by Sicofthis

Do they make automatic tube cleaners for chillers with water surrounding refrigerant tubes? Only ones I know of are the sponge balls that clean the inside of the tube.

Years ago Trane offered auto tube cleaning as an option . Each tube had a small basket attached to each end of the tube and there was a brush in each basket . There was a wrap around loop of piping and some automatic valves that would change position to reverse the flow through the bundle on a timed cycle, the change in flow would fire the brush through the tube . Never seen one in action and dont know how well it worked .
I think the idea got dropped due to expense and the fact that the chiller looked like a giant octopus with piping everywhere .

Climatemaster, you are the one on site so familiar with the installation. On the forum the members are only interpreting the information as much or as little as you post it. Reading through and the fact that you do not have an intermediate heat exchanger between the chiller barrel and the commercial fish hatchery with the 5ft sturge0n I would be thinking it best to engage a chemical treatment company for the clean otherwise you could find yourself in a whole pile of steaming liable if the product is damaged as a result of the flush. But hey you are the man on site so it is your call.

Originally Posted by climate master

At least now you have the answer to give the next idiot wasting his time on this forum.

Couldn't have said it better myself...plenty of misguided people pass through these parts asking questions without facts or accurate descriptions of the problem. They either learn to state the problem with clarity or move along. I suspect you may be in the latter group.

You might want to use something stronger than household bleach, but that's up to you.

Dibbs on being the next idiot!

Bleach it is

Originally Posted by KnewYork

Herein is the crux of the problem, you are asking us to come up with some solution of some unknown chemical when we do not know exactly what the fouling material is. You described as "fouled with algae/ slime/ snot whatever you care to call it". Of the three what is it most like?

Do you have water treatment people in your area? Why not call them in, have them take a sample and tell you what it is and how to treat it. or have the owners call in the water treatment people and let them deal with it.

If that is out of the question take a sample yourself and try using different products on it to see what will kill/clean it. Maybe a water treatment company could recommend an algaecide that would work.

Thanks for all the help. At least now you have the answer to give the next idiot wasting his time on this forum.

Originally Posted by climate master

Back to the original question what would be the recommended mixture to flush this titanium tube bundle with?

Herein is the crux of the problem, you are asking us to come up with some solution of some unknown chemical when we do not know exactly what the fouling material is. You described as "fouled with algae/ slime/ snot whatever you care to call it". Of the three what is it most like?

Do you have water treatment people in your area? Why not call them in, have them take a sample and tell you what it is and how to treat it. or have the owners call in the water treatment people and let them deal with it.

If that is out of the question take a sample yourself and try using different products on it to see what will kill/clean it. Maybe a water treatment company could recommend an algaecide that would work.

Originally Posted by KnewYork

Maybe you could go purchase some of these and throw them in there. I understand they are really aggressive on algae.

I think the 5ft Sturgen might swallow these 5in puppies whole.

Sure a secondary heat exchanger/pump set up would be the way to go. But seems a little more economical to flush when the delta T drops since that is not in their budget.

Back to the original question what would be the recommended mixture to flush this titanium tube bundle with?

missed that it was dx.

Originally Posted by Sicofthis

Falling film also.
X2 for the linked algae treatment.

Have not laughed like this in days.

Just an idea but you could sell them another pump and a plate heat-exchanger.
Isolate the chiller to prevent further damage after cleaning.

The plate and frame is a good suggestion.

Originally Posted by steveoo

Open loop's should of had automatic tube cleaner installed from day one.

Do they make automatic tube cleaners for chillers with water surrounding refrigerant tubes? Only ones I know of are the sponge balls that clean the inside of the tube.

Open loop's should of had automatic tube cleaner installed from day one.

Originally Posted by KnewYork

Maybe in your world. I've worked on far more flooded evaporator chillers than DX in my career. Maybe you could go purchase some of these and throw them in there. I understand they are really aggressive on algae.

Falling film also.
X2 for the linked algae treatment.

Have not laughed like this in days.

Just an idea but you could sell them another pump and a plate heat-exchanger.
Isolate the chiller to prevent further damage after cleaning.

many 'small' chillers use a 'water on the outside / refrigerant on the inside' configuration for the evaporator.

i guess you can try just about anything if they are going to not use proper water treatment. i understand that it will come in contact with live fish, however, even they need proper treatment too. if this is an on going problem, frequent drain down and aggressive cleaning and flushing may be in order.

Originally Posted by Climate Master

But refrigerant flows thru the tubes in most evaps...

Maybe in your world. I've worked on far more flooded evaporator chillers than DX in my career. Maybe you could go purchase some of these and throw them in there. I understand they are really aggressive on algae.

P

Originally Posted by climate master

Why would you brush the outside of a tube. Water typically flows thru a condenser tube so yes brush it by all means. But refrigerant flows thru the tubes in most evaps thus the need to rot the water side surrounding the tube bundle kinda hard to brush. Again I have Titanium tubes/ PVC shell trying to remove mainly algae......looking for best mixture ratio that will rinse clean when done. I need no trace chemicals when done as stated water flowing around the evap coil comes in direct contact with fish. Obviously I could run copper algaecide and it would remove the slime but what effect on the bundle??? Or simply acid??? But at what mixture. Typically we clean the inside of nickle copper condenser tube with acid. But this is a little different scenario.

I assumed you were talking about a flooded evap. By "rot", do you mean "rod"?

Many times when working through the various school districts in the Houston area I have found that due diligince was never accomplished when centrifigal chillers are started up and the welding slag started the corosion process. The chiller manufacturer never mattered Trane, York, Carrier or McQuay they all would foul the same. Solid black non-washable crap that had to be brushed with brass brushes after the tubes were rodded out. Even then it would always return to its fouled condition as we weren't allowed to attempt to clean the system. So, I would say get your PPE, tube brushing machine, brass brushes and grin and bear-it. -GEO

Originally Posted by Nuclrchiller

Many,many chillers have "flooded" evaporators, where the water is inside the tubes. Asking for help while "drip feeding" information wastes time. You should either be grateful that some are willing to waste their time, or you should give more complete information.

Ya what this guy said. Oh and call the manufacturer and follow their recommendations.

Many,many chillers have "flooded" evaporators, where the water is inside the tubes. Asking for help while "drip feeding" information wastes time. You should either be grateful that some are willing to waste their time, or you should give more complete information.