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Originally Posted by koolkahuna

Peer pressure.
When the wolverine goes, the fox will do the same every time.

Tell him it's a random drug test.

Originally Posted by tlp261

How do you get a fox to pee in a cup?

Peer pressure.
When the wolverine goes, the fox will do the same every time.

Ok, re-read your post and it looks like they are the mechanical and you were the controls guy. That's horrible if that was the case. But there was no reason for them to request your CAD's so that should have raised a red flag right away. Have you ever done business with these clowns before?

We request the Architects CAD's for the mechanical on lots of jobs, that's how we do our graphics and floor layouts. The drawings are time consuming to create but there isn't anything secret in them.

However, it seems that the relationship between you two was a contractor to contractor relationship so I'd like to know the circumstances and why they would need your CAD's if you were both bidding the job?

How do you get a fox to pee in a cup?

That's a ****ty job.

Don't get mad, get even. Or better yet, get mad then get even. I knew a guy that had his engineering stolen so he went to his competitors shop in the middle of the night and emptied a 2 ton dump trailer full of manure up against the front & back doors of their office. I heard through the grapevine that it took them 3 hours to dig out all the crap so they could get into the building.

i actually know someone who did something similar a long time ago. it involved a syringe and a convertible.

Originally Posted by koolkahuna

I was just thinking of keeping customers out, feeling guilty about suggesting that, fresh air intake is of course the best place for that but it leads to some sort of terrorism I think.

Terrorism? I heard it keeps the pigeons away from the outdoor air intake.

Originally Posted by crab master

Doorstep? Don't you know where their outside air intake is?

I was just thinking of keeping customers out, feeling guilty about suggesting that, fresh air intake is of course the best place for that but it leads to some sort of terrorism I think.

Originally Posted by crab master

Doorstep? Don't you know where their outside air intake is?

+1 relevant hvac controls application

Doorstep? Don't you know where their outside air intake is?

Never done it but it is some nasty odor. Your nose tries to hide in your face.

Some behavior almost requires that smell to go with it. Just sayin'.

Originally Posted by koolkahuna

Or just spray fox urine on the front step of their business. Trust me on this.

remind me to never piss you off!

Thanks for the thoughts guys

If you look at mapmakers work you will find that they draw in extra dead end roads that don't exist. That way they know and can prove in court when they have been illegally obtained...the defendant looks like a tool in court, judge finds for the plaintiff, and Bob's your uncle.

Add a circuit with a timer that sets off an alarm or phone dialer not easily found that only you can fix. Show up at their customers doorstep with the drawings and your story of their deceit...it will get their customers wary at least.

Or just spray fox urine on the front step of their business. Trust me on this.

send me a copy of your cad drawings. i will copy er i mean take a look and give you my opinion. seriously, i always send my submittals as pdf's. once we got the job and money was changing hands if they wanted the cad files i would send them. what are you supposed to do? this is is a small industry. if you want to keep bidding to, and working for these companys you dont have much of a choice.
what dracula said is on the money. drawings can be time consuming but there is really no secrets anymore. this has become a cut and paste industry. the engineering is in the programming not the drawings. most of what i do i have learned from looking at other peoples stuff.

Originally Posted by emtech

We had a customer that requested our CAD files and we foolishly provided them. They in turn "resubmitted" our work with their name on it and have broken their contract with us. They fancy themselves control contractors now. The drawings have a standard not to be reproduced or transferred without permission on them. Is this considered intellectual property theft? What if anything can be done about it?

Thanks

Don't send any documents or drawings to anybody in the native, editable format. Convert all to a PDF, before sending. Hopefully, your company got paid for the time.

What they did was not ethecal.
Unfortunately it is what happens in the controls industry and many other similar industries, almost every day.

Your situation may have a couple of issues that would likely cause your legal council to advise you to be more careful in the future, but that you do not have gounds for a successful "cause of action":
1. Unless you can factually prove that you lost money directly caused by them using you drawings, you will not likely sustain a cause of action. Even if you did win, the only results would likely be your lost profit on that project, likely not enough to cover the cost of litigation.
2. There is very little "original concept" in any control engineering drawings in the last 10 to 20 years. Chances are that some portion of your "engineering drawings", could be derivative work of others that you may have over time, customized onto your title block, this however doesn't make your work "original work". I am not saying that that is what you did, but they would test you "originality" in the discovery process.
3. We have used non disclosure and non compete contracts to prevent this, and I still find my original works on plubic plans and specs by large engineering firms (cut and paste functionality is the first thing designers seem to learn in school).

Anyway, sorry to see you experience this, yet, learn from it, and now you will be a bit smarter as time moves on.
Best part of it, you discovered a RAT that you should nave no further dealings with.

Good luck

Drac

Yes, I've seen that with every controls jobs bid, only when they get the job they corrected the drawings.