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That brings up my next question. It seems that in the videos the readings are being taken from the return air. Is the return a better reference due to turbulence, etc? I think the biggest 2 areas that I would need this mini vane would be in determining system airflow on changeouts and determining if a branch has enough airflow to support the additional duct that we are always asked about installing for that trouble area in the house.
Also the reason for error with a large vane is typically user error, technique, and not properly correcting for use on supplies. I would not use a large vane for measuring air volume on supples but rather for porportional velocity balancing. A hood is a much better selection for air volume. For volume at a return, a vane is fine.
Originally Posted by kls-ccc I was looking at the mini vane but am leaning toward a hotwire. It just seems to me that the mini vane has to many angles to adjust to make sure the air is going through it straight. If you are off by much on your x,y,or z axis it can affect the reading. With the hotwire you can be off by 10%. If i'm wrong on this someone please enlighten me as I haven't bought one yet but am getting close. I have a large vane that I have used but as someone said before the readings seem to vary a lot. I think part of that is because the it's so large that to get several readings sometimes your hand is blocking part of the register that your not testing and you don't always hold it correctly in relation to the flow of air from the register. You would be incorrect. Because a vane is directional it is more accurate. Changes in yaw and pitch of 10% will only cause an error of 3-5%. A Hotwire will indicate a false high reading in turbulent airflow because the sensor is impacted from multiple directions. Also the sensor is so small it is easily impacted by Eddie currents. A hot wire also needs to be corrected for air density to get precise results. The advantage of a Hotwire like the STA2 is the cost. The Fieldpiece gives very good results for the money. Used carefully and in a reasonable air stream you can get good results.
I was looking at the mini vane but am leaning toward a hotwire. It just seems to me that the mini vane has to many angles to adjust to make sure the air is going through it straight. If you are off by much on your x,y,or z axis it can affect the reading. With the hotwire you can be off by 10%. If i'm wrong on this someone please enlighten me as I haven't bought one yet but am getting close. I have a large vane that I have used but as someone said before the readings seem to vary a lot. I think part of that is because the it's so large that to get several readings sometimes your hand is blocking part of the register that your not testing and you don't always hold it correctly in relation to the flow of air from the register.
Originally Posted by nchvac I'm sorry, I thought when you said mini vane you were talking about a mini vane aneometer. Now you see why I didn't know how you could traverse a duct with that. So, is the Testo Mini Vane (2nd video) the best all around for airflow? It would not be responsible to say the "best", however you likely will get the best results. A vane will measure better in turbulent airflow and does not require correction.
Originally Posted by jim bergmann The second video is a Testo 416 mini-vane. It is a 5/8" diameter vane. The video shows how the traverse is done. I'm sorry, I thought when you said mini vane you were talking about a mini vane aneometer. Now you see why I didn't know how you could traverse a duct with that. So, is the Testo Mini Vane (2nd video) the best all around for airflow?
The second video is a Testo 416 mini-vane. It is a 5/8" diameter vane. The video shows how the traverse is done.
Originally Posted by jim bergmann The mini vane is for in duct only. It is too small for a register, it would not be as accurate as a large vane. All airflow instruments, hot wire, vane, and pitot require somewhat laminar airflow to get a good measurement. In more turbulent airflow a vane is going to be more accurate then a hot wire simply due to design characteristics. If you get stuck on a box plenum, you have to measure the airflow at each of the return registers and total the airflow. The air is to turbulent to get any kind of close to accurate measurement otherwise. How do you get the minivane in the duct and how do you traverse the duct with it?
The mini vane is for in duct only. It is too small for a register, it would not be as accurate as a large vane. All airflow instruments, hot wire, vane, and pitot require somewhat laminar airflow to get a good measurement. In more turbulent airflow a vane is going to be more accurate then a hot wire simply due to design characteristics. If you get stuck on a box plenum, you have to measure the airflow at each of the return registers and total the airflow. The air is to turbulent to get any kind of close to accurate measurement otherwise.
Originally Posted by jim bergmann OK, that makes more sense now. A mini-vane is for in dust traverse of airflow. A large vane like you are using is more for proportional balancing (equal velocity at each register) then airflow measurement. If you want to measure airflow in a register, look at the mini-vane (most accurate) of the Fieldpiece STA2, a very good second to the vane. The vane is better in turbulent airflow, but the Fieldpiece STA2 is a very cost efficient solution. Both the Testo 416 mini vane and the STA2 calculate airflow directly. You could also use a Pitot tube with your 510, it will just take longer and also require a bit of math to get the CFM. http://youtu.be/6mWOnU9rT_g http://youtu.be/dDVJE2rh9rM http://youtu.be/3CmXvaX_Yr4 I want to go back to the part about the mini vane being for duct traverse and for measuring air flow "in" a register. You say the minivane is the most accurate. How can you check "in" a register and traverse in a duct with a mini vane? Are you speaking of checking airflow into the return register? On the STA2, would this device be accurate on a residential unit with only a 4 foot box for a plenum, or some of the other crap we run into?
Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech Over the decade+ I have been licensed to do HVAC... I have found the most intriguing and also the most difficult to learn item is airflow and duct design. Any wonder why it is the most abused part of installs and service... IMO it just takes time and experience to figure out. And perhaps practice along the way to keep one's skills sharp. True words..
Originally Posted by nchvac I bought a 510 about 3 years ago and have yet to tool it up correctly. I have some end of year money and I want to make this tool more useful. Have been looking for what I thought was a kit with the Dwyer A-303 tubes, but I can't find a kit. Anyway, I know I want the A 303 for static pressure. If someone can direct me to the kit I would appreciate it, as I looked on the internet this morning and could not find one. I did find the 303 itself for about 11 bucks each, and I may have to just go find me a case and buy some tubing. I also think I want a pitot tube. I am only using this for checking airflow on hvac changeouts and I may use it for varifying airflow on a complaint issue, etc. But mostly it will be for residential airflow verification for system sizing. So you guys know what kind of ductwork we see. I see everything from good systems to 4 foot boxes on the end of the unit as far as what I run into. I just need something that will tell me what I have going through the unit so that I don't bust compressors in 4 years, etc. I want to be able to verify airflow on every install and compare it to my load calc #s. What size pitot tube will I need for resi work? Also, I have a vane aneometer. Are these accurate for testing airflow at registers in houses? I don't see a flow hood working in residential because they are so big. And if anyone knows of a good book on airflow I would appreciate it. I have learned a lot on htalk over the years on airflow, but I need something that will tie it all together. Over the decade+ I have been licensed to do HVAC... I have found the most intriguing and also the most difficult to learn item is airflow and duct design. Any wonder why it is the most abused part of installs and service... IMO it just takes time and experience to figure out. And perhaps practice along the way to keep one's skills sharp.
Originally Posted by snewman24 Here's the Trutech kit with tips & tubing: http://www.trutechtools.com/TruTech-...it-_p_630.html Fieldpiece has a kit for the same thing... 2 angle probes (no tubing) for $20. Magnets are round and a little smaller. I bought the tubing at HD.
Originally Posted by jim bergmann OK, that makes more sense now. A mini-vane is for in dust traverse of airflow. A large vane like you are using is more for proportional balancing (equal velocity at each register) then airflow measurement. If you want to measure airflow in a register, look at the mini-vane (most accurate) of the Fieldpiece STA2, a very good second to the vane. The vane is better in turbulent airflow, but the Fieldpiece STA2 is a very cost efficient solution. Both the Testo 416 mini vane and the STA2 calculate airflow directly. You could also use a Pitot tube with your 510, it will just take longer and also require a bit of math to get the CFM. http://youtu.be/6mWOnU9rT_g http://youtu.be/dDVJE2rh9rM http://youtu.be/3CmXvaX_Yr4 I was told that all I had to do was set up the testo 510 for fpm and insert a pitot tube in the duct in about 3 locations. Then do the cfm calc to convert from fpm. Some of these digital tools are hard to navigate if you don't use them all of the time. It is the ones with the fewest buttons that concern me, because practice is all that will help you navigate and properly use these tools. I probably verify airflow on systems less than 10 times a year, so I won't be geting much practice.
OK, that makes more sense now. A mini-vane is for in dust traverse of airflow. A large vane like you are using is more for proportional balancing (equal velocity at each register) then airflow measurement. If you want to measure airflow in a register, look at the mini-vane (most accurate) of the Fieldpiece STA2, a very good second to the vane. The vane is better in turbulent airflow, but the Fieldpiece STA2 is a very cost efficient solution. Both the Testo 416 mini vane and the STA2 calculate airflow directly. You could also use a Pitot tube with your 510, it will just take longer and also require a bit of math to get the CFM. http://youtu.be/6mWOnU9rT_g http://youtu.be/dDVJE2rh9rM http://youtu.be/3CmXvaX_Yr4
Originally Posted by jim bergmann What type of vane? and how are you using it. A vane is much more accurate than a pitot tube in turbulent airflow. It is the fieldpiece attachment with the fan wheel. I have used it a couple of times, but it is basically new. I also have a pocket style exteck (I think is the brand). How can you use a vane aneometer to check inside of the duct? I have used it at the return, but as I say you get so much variance on the large grills.
What type of vane? and how are you using it. A vane is much more accurate than a pitot tube in turbulent airflow.
So are you guys using just the static tips, or are you using pitot tubes too? I have a vane anometer but I find the reading so varied when averaging that I don't trust it, even though it self averages.
Originally Posted by snewman24 Here's the Trutech kit with tips & tubing: http://www.trutechtools.com/TruTech-...it-_p_630.html Great kit. Use it all the time with my 510. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Here's the Trutech kit with tips & tubing: http://www.trutechtools.com/TruTech-...it-_p_630.html
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