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Originally Posted by shubers85

X13 is good for scrap metal, the end.

+1..+2..+3..+4...

X13 is good for scrap metal, the end.

Originally Posted by Brent Ridley

Mr. Bill, Carrier is now paying warranty labor for module replacements. I'm not sure what brand your talking about.

Ruud, it sure would be nice if Ruud started paying labor for module replacements, maybe they will "someday".

Thanks Mr. Bill. Unit is a Rheem 3 Phase with a single phase gentec x-13 there is also a Emerson comfort alert commercial diagnostics contraption on the unit to add to the wiring nest . Any how I'll be up on that roof tomorrow, forgot to mention with a can of wasp spray there is a giant wasp nest in disconnect George

George,

Confirm correct voltage. Ohm out the motor. If the motor is good, replace the module.

Mr. Bill,

Carrier is now paying warranty labor for module replacements. I'm not sure what brand your talking about.

That 3 phase rheem with single phase x-13 is whats giving me grief right now it has the speed taps and the silicone goop in the bell. I get there and blower is dead turn breaker off to chek connections in disconnect alls ok turn breaker back on now all starts working for four to six hours or all day. going back out tomorrow mean while customer is turning breaker off and on should it stop running. Unit does not trip breaker. Its just a way to reset module?

Originally Posted by chuckcrj

An x13 motor is no less a "true ECM" than a GE 2.3.

I haven't found any X13 failures myself, is this a regional thing?

We've replaced several of them. But I've found zero correlation between X13 failures and static pressure. Just my personal observation. The last two that I replaced were actually running low ESP's, as in 0.3-0.4". There was rust on the shafts though, indicating that the problem was probably condensation. Dehumidification mode may have been responsible for that. I've started ignoring the instructions and using the next lower speed tap for low cooling (dehumidification) speed rather than the "lowest speed that doesn't cause evap coil freezing." There were also some X13's that were just defective. There was a bulletin issued and it was posted in this forum somewhere. Something about a component in the motor module that would overheat IIRC.

It is my understanding that the new carrier fx series airhandlers do not use the x13 anymore? That carrier sticks some made in china pos in its place. Anyone? I know the fv is ECM 3.0

Originally Posted by hurtinhvac

However...you can't ignore the fact that the reason they keep having these classes is because there was/is a huge issue and they are sick of giving out warranty motors and modules together - when they well know by now it is the modules that are the culprit as much as 90% of the time.

On an X13 motor, my supply house will not accept just the module, they want to whole motor for warranty, unless something has change in the past two weeks.

I had two recent classes that touched on this. One was a RSES with a Nordyne Rep., the other a Carrier distributor with a class specifically dedicated to troubleshooting ECMs. They both swore up and down that the issues were becoming less, and in my limited experience in kinda seems so. It's been many a week since I've had to deal with one, and we've installed a boatload of 'em.

However...you can't ignore the fact that the reason they keep having these classes is because there was/is a huge issue and they are sick of giving out warranty motors and modules together - when they well know by now it is the modules that are the culprit as much as 90% of the time.

I just got yet another RSES bulletin in the mail over the weekend concerning this very issue. As noted above, the X13s now have a thick rubber matting protecting the module circuitry as they figured out that moistue really messes with these things.

I have no clue as to how they are attempting to deal with the power surge issue, other than to suggest additional surge protection...

Originally Posted by Gunslinger

Rheem /Ruud has a 3 phase pachage unit that uses a single phase X13 blower motor. And they fail.

Yes, new part failures are becoming more common everyday, now Carrier is going to the LG compressors, guess pretty soon we wont have time to do our everyday service calls, for all the warranty calls we will have.

Originally Posted by shubers85

The x13 is a single phase motor/module assembly. 3 phase motors are typically belt driven in my experience. I haven't seen a 3 phase ECM/x13. But I don't work on commercial equipment. Mostly residential. Did you verify you are not loosing a leg of power ?

Rheem /Ruud has a 3 phase pachage unit that uses a single phase X13 blower motor. And they fail.

Originally Posted by Brent Ridley

The only time I've ever changed a tap is on a failure. Once or twice, I've changed the tap and gotten the motor operational until a replacement arrived.

Thats good to know, I never have tried that, but in Houston it's a petty good chance you will always find the part, so I just pull the motor and go get another one.

Thanks for the clarification Mr. Bill.

The only time I've ever changed a tap is on a failure. Once or twice, I've changed the tap and gotten the motor operational until a replacement arrived.

Originally Posted by Brent Ridley

By set speeds, I meant you have speed selection terminals on the motor.

There actually called torque taps and there 24 volts that are set/programed by the mfg. for the furnace/air handler the motor is installed in, it's not really recommended that the tech play with the torque taps.

By set speeds, I meant you have speed selection terminals on the motor.

Yes. It is constant torque.

Originally Posted by Brent Ridley

X13 motors are constant torque and operate at set speeds.

ECM 2.3 modulate speeds. Truely variable.

They're not the same.

It's true they are not the same, but both are variable speed an both are Electronically Commutated Motors (ECM).

An X13 does not run at fixed speeds, it runs at a fixed torque.

We find about 1 bad x13 every 2 weeks. It's getting to be a pain and customers aren't very happy about it. We've only had a couple bad out of our installations but lots from service calls on other equipment, most of the time it's bc of inadequate ducting and/or condensation.

X13 motors are constant torque and operate at set speeds.

ECM 2.3 modulate speeds. Truely variable.

They're not the same.

Originally Posted by Brent Ridley

The resistor trick is for true ECM motors. That doesn't apply to X13 motors.

An x13 motor is no less a "true ECM" than a GE 2.3.

I haven't found any X13 failures myself, is this a regional thing?