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Originally Posted by mark beiser

I don't like being one of the ones quoted ahead of "Again, I ask you libs"!
Them fightin words!

In your example, of course you exercise precise gun control, and put 2 center mass in each one.

If it is a couple of dirtbags walking down the street in a place not normally populated by dirtbags, observe but don't confront.

Exactly! Protect your family and property. No point in looking for trouble, but be aware of your surroundings.

Originally Posted by mark beiser

I don't like being one of the ones quoted ahead of "Again, I ask you libs"!
Them fightin words!

In your example, of course you exercise precise gun control, and put 2 center mass in each one.

If it is a couple of dirtbags walking down the street in a place not normally populated by dirtbags, observe but don't confront.

I see it as asking someone to make a decision and speak it out... I have a Washington ($1 bill) that says they will not respond... they never do. The point was to put a liberal on the spot to answer a question they like to ignore...

If you are not comfortable being part of making a liberal accountable... not a problem.

Have a GREAT one!

I don't like being one of the ones quoted ahead of "Again, I ask you libs"!
Them fightin words!

In your example, of course you exercise precise gun control, and put 2 center mass in each one.

If it is a couple of dirtbags walking down the street in a place not normally populated by dirtbags, observe but don't confront.

Originally Posted by newstudent

"Was Zimmerman provoking Treyvon Martin? "

the court will decide that and, Stand your ground laws will hopefully be rulled unconstitutional; if these types of laws allow vigilanties to go around shooting unarmed teenagers, we dont' need them.

Originally Posted by mark beiser

I don't agree with throwing out "stand your ground" laws altogether. I don't know how the Florida law is written, but I'm pretty sure that in Texas following and confronting someone on the street, that was not positively known to be engaging in a crime against a person or property, would be considered to be provoking them, and would smoke a persons "stand your ground" protection.

The problem is, we don't know exactly what happened that led to the physical confrontation. There were not direct eye witnesses, and dead men tell no tails, so we only have one side of the story.
The known events leading up to it sure make it seem fishy though.

Originally Posted by newstudent

Criminals have more rights than victims......."well you're one stupid idiot if you give the scumbag the time so you can figure out he's armed or not. "

Well following your beliefs, you'd also be pretty stupid to shoot someone and then spend your life behind bars?

Given the number of people found innocent and taken off death row, I'd trust a jury of my peers about as far as I could throw them.

The point is: When some idiot thinks they can charge me on MY PROPERTY... they have already stepped over the line. What ever happened to respect for private property? What is the perp doing on my property? Do they have a reason to be there (remember that word trespassing)? Whatever business they have with me can be conducted from the curb-line.

What this freedom of use of deadly force is about is: to teach the average Joe to respect others. Now I know that sound so HORRIBLE... until you are the one with hoodlums charging your family on your property.... So tell me: What would YOU do if threatened? Call the cops? They will be at least 30 min getting there... they do not want to get in a gun-fight any more than you do. NO, there are times when a person has to protect themselves... and to take away that right is to give criminals free reign.

Again, I ask you libs: Answer what YOU would do if you wifey and kids were threatened by someone intent on doing harm... and the ONLY way was to stop it NOW, and on your own? And as far as I am concerned: Any lib that conveniently does not answer the question... is a wimp... <grin>

Criminals have more rights than victims......."well you're one stupid idiot if you give the scumbag the time so you can figure out he's armed or not. "

Well following your beliefs, you'd also be pretty stupid to shoot someone and then spend your life behind bars?

Given the number of people found innocent and taken off death row, I'd trust a jury of my peers about as far as I could throw them.

Criminals have more rights than victims. sad sad sad.

I consider to be threatened If I see someone on my property and he comes towards me when I question what he's doing.

"but the criminal was unarmed...." well you're one stupid idiot if you give the scumbag the time so you can figure out he's armed or not.

Originally Posted by newstudent

"Was Zimmerman provoking Treyvon Martin? "

the court will decide that and, Stand your ground laws will hopefully be rulled unconstitutional; if these types of laws allow vigilanties to go around shooting unarmed teenagers, we dont' need them.

I don't agree with throwing out "stand your ground" laws altogether. I don't know how the Florida law is written, but I'm pretty sure that in Texas following and confronting someone on the street, that was not positively known to be engaging in a crime against a person or property, would be considered to be provoking them, and would smoke a persons "stand your ground" protection.

The problem is, we don't know exactly what happened that led to the physical confrontation. There were not direct eye witnesses, and dead men tell no tails, so we only have one side of the story.
The known events leading up to it sure make it seem fishy though.

"Was Zimmerman provoking Treyvon Martin? "

the court will decide that and, Stand your ground laws will hopefully be rulled unconstitutional; if these types of laws allow vigilanties to go around shooting unarmed teenagers, we dont' need them.

I'm sure the $100,000 damage is based on classic list price overinflated prices for retail replacement cost with brand new units quoted by HVAC installers.

The only thing I disagree with that its like quoting the new dealer price of a brand new Fiesta as a damage value for a stolen 1993 Festiva,

EPA should go after him though.
http://www.justice.gov/usao/gan/press/2010/06-15-10.pdf

I support mandatory ozone depletion class on anyone who got caught with refrigeration and A/C crime, so that they can't play that "I was not aware" card the next time which would allow the society to charge them under federal law.

One may slip through with "I didn't know letting out the pssssssssssssst" was bad for the environment" and get away. Plenty of people don't know how A/Cs work and there are plenty who think that running a window A/C on a coffee table would cool the room. So, mandatory class on prohibited venting is an investment that would allow him to get locked up for prohibited venting, which by the way, is a much stiffer penalty.

Originally Posted by mark beiser

In Texas I can use deadly force to protect my self, family, guests, neighbors, the guy jogging down my street, my house, my property, my neighbors property, my car, my workplace, etc..
There is no requirement to retreat, as long as 3 criteria are met.
(1) I had a right to be present at the location where deadly force was used.
(2) I did not provoke the person against whom deadly force was used.
(3) I was not engaged in criminal activity at the time deadly force was used.

I hope to never again been in a situation where taking another human life is an option on the menu, but I'm glad I live in a state where I am protected from prosecution, criminal or civil, if it comes down to that.

I say "again" because a few years ago I did catch a burglar stealing stuff from my tool shed at night.
In the eyes of the law I could have killed him with no legal consequences. Morally I didn't see any justification in taking an unarmed kids life for trying to steel a lawnmower and some yard tools.
If I had caught him breaking into my house, or my service van, the consequences for him may have been very different. You don't F with my home or my livelyhood.

#2 is kind of confusing I think. What if he thought you looked at him funny, and got all in your face? Is that provoking him? If you call him a dumb n___er, and he attacks you, then you have no right to defend yourself? This kind of goes back to the George Zimmerman case. Was Zimmerman provoking Treyvon Martin?

Were you going to bring the guy with you that you want to shoot? I don't think that counts!

Originally Posted by mark beiser

In Texas I can use deadly force to protect my self, family, guests, neighbors, the guy jogging down my street, my house, my property, my neighbors property, my car, my workplace, etc..
There is no requirement to retreat, as long as 3 criteria are met.
(1) I had a right to be present at the location where deadly force was used.
(2) I did not provoke the person against whom deadly force was used.
(3) I was not engaged in criminal activity at the time deadly force was used.

I hope to never again been in a situation where taking another human life is an option on the menu, but I'm glad I live in a state where I am protected from prosecution, criminal or civil, if it comes down to that.

I say "again" because a few years ago I did catch a burglar stealing stuff from my tool shed at night.
In the eyes of the law I could have killed him with no legal consequences. Morally I didn't see any justification in taking an unarmed kids life for trying to steel a lawnmower and some yard tools.
If I had caught him breaking into my house, or my service van, the consequences for him may have been very different. You don't F with my home or my livelyhood.

Originally Posted by ironpit

Sometimes I wonder if I should have moved to Houston to take care of my Dad, rather than move him here...

May have to come visit during off season.

Originally Posted by mark beiser

In Texas I can use deadly force to protect my self, family, guests, neighbors, the guy jogging down my street, my house, my property, my neighbors property, my car, my workplace, etc..
There is no requirement to retreat, as long as 3 criteria are met.
(1) I had a right to be present at the location where deadly force was used.
(2) I did not provoke the person against whom deadly force was used.
(3) I was not engaged in criminal activity at the time deadly force was used.

I hope to never again been in a situation where taking another human life is an option on the menu, but I'm glad I live in a state where I am protected from prosecution, criminal or civil, if it comes down to that.

I say "again" because a few years ago I did catch a burglar stealing stuff from my tool shed at night.
In the eyes of the law I could have killed him with no legal consequences. Morally I didn't see any justification in taking an unarmed kids life for trying to steel a lawnmower and some yard tools.
If I had caught him breaking into my house, or my service van, the consequences for him may have been very different. You don't F with my home or my livelyhood.

Had a job at an inner city KFC - manager walked in one morning and found the place hot and no refrigeration. Went on the roof and found both HVAC units copper cut clean out of the condensers. Also found stubs of copper where the walk in freezer and cooler condensing units were.

How many former GOVENORS have served (or are serving) time in IL???? and we re how many $$$$ in debt??? I better stop or this will be moved to ARP

Probably played the good old game of seperate charges so individually it wasn't enough to be a felony...bunch of BS. I agree EPA should go after him!

Originally Posted by 2sac

In IL, I can only use deadly force to protect myself or another human if in fear of my/their life. I cannot protect my property(this includes pets)

When I was at the Trane school in LaCrosse he referred to IL as the "communist state of IL" as the reason he left. Crazy.

I can't believe after $100,000 worth of damage that it wasn't a felony?!

Originally Posted by 2sac

In IL, I can only use deadly force to protect myself or another human if in fear of my/their life. I cannot protect my property(this includes pets)

In Texas I can use deadly force to protect my self, family, guests, neighbors, the guy jogging down my street, my house, my property, my neighbors property, my car, my workplace, etc..
There is no requirement to retreat, as long as 3 criteria are met.
(1) I had a right to be present at the location where deadly force was used.
(2) I did not provoke the person against whom deadly force was used.
(3) I was not engaged in criminal activity at the time deadly force was used.

I hope to never again been in a situation where taking another human life is an option on the menu, but I'm glad I live in a state where I am protected from prosecution, criminal or civil, if it comes down to that.

I say "again" because a few years ago I did catch a burglar stealing stuff from my tool shed at night.
In the eyes of the law I could have killed him with no legal consequences. Morally I didn't see any justification in taking an unarmed kids life for trying to steel a lawnmower and some yard tools.
If I had caught him breaking into my house, or my service van, the consequences for him may have been very different. You don't F with my home or my livelyhood.

Originally Posted by mark beiser

If someone caught him on their property at night, in the act of stealing their air conditioner, and shot him, or just bet the crap out of them, they would almost surely due more hard time than him because Kansas has a weaksauce "Castle Doctrine", and no "stand your ground" law to protect otherwise law abiding citizens defending their person or property.

In IL, I can only use deadly force to protect myself or another human if in fear of my/their life. I cannot protect my property(this includes pets)

If someone caught him on their property at night, in the act of stealing their air conditioner, and shot him, or just bet the crap out of them, they would almost surely due more hard time than him because Kansas has a weaksauce "Castle Doctrine", and no "stand your ground" law to protect otherwise law abiding citizens defending their person or property.