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wonder what happened to my post

Okay, I got the anser here. Lets get our industry together and get going, get proffesional, get trained more, charge more. Charge like were suppose to get paid. I can't see why a very good sharp mechanic shouldn't be making a 150 grand a year. It's ridiculous. I wished to god I could charge a lot more. I wish we were all upper class. We should be for crying out loud..

I don't mind paying a little more if it means the workers are living better. You only want the big boys to live better. As long as the fat cats don't need to worry about medical, retirement, or paying the rent everything is good right. Those with yours and robos attitude are poison to humanity.

Neither of you would know a fact if it bit you in the Arss. No wonder you’re so worried about violence. You want to rape and pillage mankind, and when mankind tries to stop you, they are evil. I’m surprised you guys are not running Fortune 500 companies.

Re: Unions are good

Originally posted by jce
I can't figure out why one wouldn't want to be a tradesman and be in a union . I guess the 2! 401 k and a's , pension, Vacation and welfare account, decent health benefits, automatic raises, and killer training just don't count for much. I think the people who scream the loudest about Unions just can't get in ( Robo ) or are washouts- whatever . Robo - you're obviosly biased for you're own reasons.

Who do you think pays for all of the benefits that are given... the tooth farie. WAKE UP!!

You pay for them yourself and all other consumers in this economy.

You have made a good effort Robo, but some people only think of the short run and not the long run. In the long run Unions are bad, they only increase the cost of doing business and if anyone thinks that the increased cost in not passed onto the consumer is a fool. ALL INCREASED COST IS EVENTUALLY PAID FOR BY YOU AND ME in one way or another.

If an entity is subsidized by the Government and that business has to have work done at a higher rate due to a union. You and I the taxpayers of this great land have to pay for it through higher taxes.

If an entity is not subsidized by the Government and that business has to have work done at a higher rate due to a union. You and I the consumers have to pay for it through higher prices.

From reading this one thread I am worried about the fate of this country.

What is wrong with a person starting a business and growing that business until they are making $1 million in salary? They took the risk. If you have a problem with it do not try to tax them or scare them out of business STOP BUYING THEIR PRODUCT!! Last I checked this is a free country.(unless your in a union where you are told what to do and when to do it)

I am biased. I have stated my reasons and I turned down going union several times in my life. My reasons are political and ethical and I do not blame nor feel badly toward anyone who would rather make more money by not thinking about the political and ethical ramifications.

I have certainly not done bad for myself in life and I did it all without having some organization control when and how I work.

I have not criticized union workers. I certainly do not blame anyone for doing what they can to make more money. Why is it the come backs to me are so personal (and very wrong)? I have stated facts as I am finding them and those who do not like what I am exposing are simply trying to attack me instead of acknowledging the facts.

Go back and read some of the links I posted and tell me how wonderful the unions are.

Unions are good

I can't figure out why one wouldn't want to be a tradesman and be in a union . I guess the 2! 401 k and a's , pension, Vacation and welfare account, decent health benefits, automatic raises, and killer training just don't count for much. I think the people who scream the loudest about Unions just can't get in ( Robo ) or are washouts- whatever . Robo - you're obviosly biased for you're own reasons.

THere's no arguing from me. I am posting factual information and backing it up with sites unlike you who are just giving the usual lip service of what corporations will do with no evidence to support your claim.

Dow, no, the issue of violence is not a game; it is extortion. In the long run everyone pays for union intervention in business.

secorp, if you pissed off the corporations, they would have burned the van with you in it.

Dow, Your a realist, very refreshing.

Robo, go argue with yourself for a while. Lets us know how it turns out.

Listen. It's not a complicated thing as you guys make this seem.

It's a game. I play games every day to make a buck. THAT'S real life and real business. The union for some is a good thing. For others might not feel as such. But to blanket statement anything is stupid and ignorant. There is bad in Mother Theresa for crying out loud.

Compare a union workers pay and retirment to a non union worker in this trade as a mechanic, hands down the union guy walks out after his career better off.

From an employers point of veiw, to offer that and additionaly afford that as a means of compensating, along with knowing he's trained, I opt to support the basic premises of unionized labor in this trade.

Frozen,
One night I awoke from my motel room to find.......
My Van windows broke and tires slashed. I was servicing a department store down in Miami, THE UNION TOOK NOTE OF MY VAN and let me know what might be next. there is honor in union thugs however, they left my tools untouched!

My outfit had a chain of stores thru out the state, from then on we went in unmarked stocked with materials rented vans.

I feared for my well being the hole time, we never went alone and let the cops know were we were, I think they were union cops too, that scared me as well.

Also the union had us blackballed from all local supply houses. they let the local houses know what could happen if they did not comply. hell I am nervous just posting this, UNIONS are nothing to be trifled with.

For more on the virtues of unions, try these sites;

Freedom from Union Violence Promoting an American public policy based on individual liberty, limited government, free markets and peaceful international relations. Extensive library of studies, articles and monographs ... One avenue for relief is the Freedom from Union Violence Act (FUVA), which targets all extortionate activity, even if ...
http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-316es.html


Ads Compare Union Violence to Corporate Corruption -- 09/23/2002 ... The Freedom From Union Violence Act was introduced by Sen ... Tell Congress that union violence against hard-working Americans must stop," the commercial concludes ...
http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewNation.as...20020923a.html

this must be copied from http to html and pasted in address to bring up, don't know why.

Group cites union-led violence Today's business stories from The Cincinnati Enquirer ... people and many like them were victims of union violence. Too many job actions include harassment ... Tell Congress that union violence against hard-working Americans must stop ...
http://www.enquirer.com/editions/200..._unions15.html


Union Corruption Update - Index by Union ... ABC Abuse Shows Union, Democrats, Out of Touch (1.12 11/16/98) Union Violence in U.S. West Strike (1.7 09/07/98 ...
http://www.nlpc.org/artindx.asp


NRTW: Court Clears Path for Trial in Gruesome Union Violence Suit Court Clears Path for Trial in Gruesome Union Violence Suit. Employees to get their day in court after union thugs waged bloody campaign of violence. FOR RELEASE: July 31, 2000. WINCHESTER, Va. ( July 31, 2000) --
http://www.nrtw.org/b/nr_200.htm

This is simply the very first part of a list that came up on one of hundreds of pages when I typed a search for "union violence".

[Edited by RoBoTeq on 08-02-2004 at 09:06 PM]

Where does their funding come from?

OK, so I guess you do want to compare violent acts;

Coalition Takes Aim at Union Violence
Friday, September 27, 2002
By Liza Porteus
NEW YORK — A coalition of business interests and tax cutting groups is calling on federal lawmakers to put up strict penalties against unions whose workers commit acts of violence against fellow employees on opposite ends of labor disputes.

The Coalition to End Union Violence wants Congress to make sure big labor groups are held accountable for their members' actions.

That's right! That date is 2002. That's the twenty first century, not the 19th century.

And look! There is an entire organization dedicated to union violence.

Just so we know what I am posting is not taken out of context, here is the story; http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,64095,00.html

And just what are the sources for your stories? The Union Organizer?

[Edited by RoBoTeq on 08-02-2004 at 08:29 PM]

Many years ago I had just joined the Teamsters union. At that time I had a conversation with my father in law, he was a negotiator for the American federation of teachers. I told him I did not like the us vs. them attitude that prevailed. There was no team spirit. He told me the companies were the ones who created that attitude, when it’s workers decided to join a union. He was right.

Though after a year on the picket line, I was eventually busted out of that union. I learned the value of organized labor. Robo had you lived in the past, I believe you would have been one of the company thugs noted in the following excerpts. Unions did not start the violence they were the victims of it. Now, no one seems to remember that. I do not mean this as an attack on your person, but it was those who thought like you who pulled the triggers. ☻


One of the first great strike waves of this country occurred on the Railways in 1877; in that strike, US federal troops repeatedly opened fire on strikers battling with the monopolistic railways, killing twelve people in Baltimore, killing twenty-five in Pittsburgh, and using troops throughout the country to break the strike. Local police in Pittsburgh had actually supported the strikers because public opinion so supported the strike, but President Hayes made sure federal troops were used to defend the railroad monopolies.


Possibly the most bloody attack on unionists was Ludlow, Colorado in 1913 where, J.D. Rockefeller and his Colorado Fuel and Iron Company had state militia and hired special deputies attack and try to crush coal miners there. Conflict ranged for months until the militia opened machine-fire on a tent city of mineworker’s family and then soaked tents in oil and put them to the torch. Women and children huddled in pits to escape the flames; in one, eleven children and two women were found burned to death at the hands of the militia.

Between 1870 and 1934, unions in America were also trying to grow as well, but the captains of industry and the wealthy waged a bitter war against workers who tried to organize into a union. The creation of the U.S. trade union movement was the most violent in the world as a result of the wars waged against workers trying to organize into unions during this time.

· 1892: Workers at Carnegie Steel Company protested wage cuts and are locked out. Homestead strike against Carnegie Steel where several workers lost their lives in the dispute.

Re: Re: Re: Robo, Whats up with you and unions

Originally posted by frozensolid
Ever hear of triangle shirtwaist. That is what happens when the power of the greedy is left unchecked by Unions.

Leap for Life, Leap of Death

275 girls started to collect their belongings as they were leaving work at 4:45 PM on Saturday. Within twenty minutes some of girls' charred bodies were lined up along the East Side of Greene Street. Those girls who flung themselves from the ninth floor were merely covered with tarpaulins where they hit the concrete. The Bellevue morgue was overrun with bodies and a makeshift morgue was set up on the adjoining pier on the East River. Hundred's of parents and family members came to identify their lost loved ones. 146 employees of the Triangle Shirtwaist Company were dead the night of March 25, 1911. The horror of their deaths led to numerous changes in occupational safety standards that currently ensure the safety of workers today.

Yes, this 1911 tragedy was avoidable and as stated led to the government organization that prevents these things from happening today. Unions today have absolutely no affect on such working conditions. The good that unions did in the past is no longer a factor of todays unions. Todays unions exist to support the lavish lives of union bosses.

You really don't want to get into a tit for tat accounting of damages created by merit shop neglect vs damages created by unions do you? It is absolutely bad when people die because of bad working conditions but to deliberately murder people because they will not join your organization is a bit of a different story.

Re: Re: Robo, Whats up with you and unions

Originally posted by RoBoTeq

Originally posted by rob10
Did Jimmy Hoffa molest you as a child??

No, but he and other union bosses have been molesting this country for far too long.

What a waste of time and energy.

Ever hear of triangle shirtwaist. That is what happens when the power of the greedy is left unchecked by Unions.

Re: Robo, Whats up with you and unions

Originally posted by rob10
Did Jimmy Hoffa molest you as a child??

No, but he and other union bosses have been molesting this country for far too long.

One of my uncles in fact was shop foreman for a large union mechanical contractor in this area when I was young. I was urged to join the union and was about to in 1972 when all hell broke loose in Maryland with the unions.

Merit shop trailers were burned out, construction equipment was destroyed and otherwise tampered with causing at the deaths of at least 5 merit shop workers in an 18 month union rampage. There was no way I was going to join an organization that acted like that.

During this time I was confronted with strike issues which altered the operations of the merit shop company I was working for. I was introduced to the oportunity to break through a picket line in order to deliver materials to a job we were not allowed to work on because of the union strikes. The company I worked for rearranged work schedules so no one needed to be laid off during this time but it really cost a lot of companies a lot of money putting up with the union aggressions.

Because of the reaction of the public to the methods the unions used during this time period unions in Maryland lost a lot of credibility. The state is still officially a union state but the unions have never been able to force it to be a closed shop state in function.

A few years later my own company was assaulted by unionizers who caused a lot of dissent with some of my employees. Most of my employees were loyal to me and the company and the union was not voted in. Those who opposed my ways of doing business left on their own accord soon after. Seems that they were plants that were sent to me for the sole purpose of unionizing my company. What a waste of time and energy.

Your right, I just got started and wrote more than I thought I would.

We have ABC and other places out here also but they do not have any sheetmetal apprentices, only plumbers, framers and electrical. If they did It would be great because getting apprentices is a big deal on Prevaling wage jobs and can make a huge impact on your job costs.

I have found that Workers are pretty much the same on or off prevaling wage jobs, you may get about 10% more for a while on Prevailing scale but they get used to the money, I think It all boils down to your lead guy running the job right with the material coming in right and ontime and working with the other subs and the work ethic of the worker cannot be understated.

Robo, Whats up with you and unions

Did Jimmy Hoffa molest you as a child??