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Originally Posted by sto2299001

........Unfortunately, skills such as electrical, housing diagrams, etc are not offered in colleges, and therefore makes transferring my credits worthless. I left school because "college is a joke" meaning 90% of college majors are non technical and do not lead to good career jobs in my opinion..............

Horse manure.

I have a BSME with a triple minor in electrical engineering, mathematics and statistics from a fully accredited state university.

What do you mean real money? This year Our techs made around 60 some 70per yr with OT. Our one guy does only PMs and he's around 40k. We do a good job keeping OT down unless a specific guy wants it, we spread it out evenly because everyone has families. Our plumbing foreman, plumbing service manager and a few others make a little under 100k (includes Xmas bonus) but they work the tail off and probably average 55-60 hrs a week.
There are a number of different segments to the industry such as service, install, design, management, sales etc.

Its there money...

Originally Posted by jtrammel

First of all I would get that can of ac seal out of your shirt pocket, throw it in the garbage where it belongs and don't ever use it again unless its a can of 134a for your car.

This pic was taken on a call for a insurance company, and this particular company demands that if you put more than 3 lbs of r-22 into the system that you use "easy seal". It's in the contract.

First of all I would get that can of ac seal out of your shirt pocket, throw it in the garbage where it belongs and don't ever use it again unless its a can of 134a for your car.

Originally Posted by jtrammel

Why do you only do hvac in the summer? What about H and V and even R? Get your company into building science, it helps to fill the slow times up with other types of repairs that aren't weather driven. Looking at the whole house approach and putting the V back in HVAC the past couple of years has kept my buisiness profitable 12 months out of the year in the toughest economic times since the Great Depression. We are already booked through the end of January with duct jobs, proactive change outs, crawl space humidity fixed, among other things and still have a few blower door tests lined up to do when we get time along with service calls for heat and we always find a cracked heat exchanger or bad compressor to get an emergency change out once or twice a week. We've got 5 techs we all do whatever is needed any given day service or install and me and my dad pull away to
do sales calls and blower door tests when need be.

Were doing heatinc calls now, but it is a tad bit slow..

Why do you only do hvac in the summer? What about H and V and even R? Get your company into building science, it helps to fill the slow times up with other types of repairs that aren't weather driven. Looking at the whole house approach and putting the V back in HVAC the past couple of years has kept my buisiness profitable 12 months out of the year in the toughest economic times since the Great Depression. We are already booked through the end of January with duct jobs, proactive change outs, crawl space humidity fixed, among other things and still have a few blower door tests lined up to do when we get time along with service calls for heat and we always find a cracked heat exchanger or bad compressor to get an emergency change out once or twice a week. We've got 5 techs we all do whatever is needed any given day service or install and me and my dad pull away to do sales calls and blower door tests when need be.

Originally Posted by bigsmooth

im 24, went to a vo-tech high school. sadly the only thing I learned was how to braze and shot wire nuts out of nitrogen tanks lol. but when I worked two weeks/ school for two weeks I worked for a company that threw me to the wolfs and in that year and a half time period I learned so much it was insane, tested out my first year in my apprenticeship switched employers where I currently work finished my apprenticeship. so if your dad has a company I would just soak up as much industry info you can, and take over the business when your dad retires. are you in residential or commercial?

residential

im 24, went to a vo-tech high school. sadly the only thing I learned was how to braze and shot wire nuts out of nitrogen tanks lol. but when I worked two weeks/ school for two weeks I worked for a company that threw me to the wolfs and in that year and a half time period I learned so much it was insane, tested out my first year in my apprenticeship switched employers where I currently work finished my apprenticeship. so if your dad has a company I would just soak up as much industry info you can, and take over the business when your dad retires. are you in residential or commercial?

I like Air1 have an Associates in HVAC and Electronics. The Electronics has served me well because i always never seem to have problems on the advancing edge of new technology in our field. But the most valuable and most marketable experience i got was when i was working in a radiator factory under the tutelage of a tool and die maker. I learned most aspects of the machinist trade, including setups and very close tolerance work. I have had to show some machine shops how to set up to do my machine work on rebuilds and getting parts made. I am finding out that these shops cannot find good manual machinists. They just dont exist. There is one machine shop in Houston which all of the OEM's and contractors use for their repair centers; along with most other industrial process refrigeration. These guys are getting older and we are wondering what the industry will do when they retire.

Other than that I always wished I had more business knowledge. Being a wrench turning mechanical/electrical whiz has made me money; but being knowledgeable about the business side is what separates a great tech from the ultimate tech or even owner. I would say the business degree would serve you well.

NATE

I don't know if this will help but have you looked into N.A.T.E.? In my own experience, I found a NATE training class which helped me prep for the NATE exam along with some good training covering IMC and R410a. My classes were 2 nights per week 3.5 hours per night, lasting 20 weeks.

I grew up in a plumbing/heating family owned business. Went to college and got a BS in Industrial Arts/Technology along with a lifetime teaching certificate. Worked for a couple of large corp. in technical supervision jobs, and came back home after about 10 years and took over the family business. All of our office employees have degress (one in accounting, and two in general business). Not that a degree is actually needed, however if you are wanting the office/management/business background, it can't hurt since you're over 2/3rd the way done. I'm certified to teach "shop" in high school, so had to have the electrical, drafting, basic machine/tool classes in order to get certified. Never took a teaching job because larger industries pay double what teachers earn, but still have and keep the certification. My youngest child (son) is working in business too, but he also finished college with business degree (he's in a service truck now). But if we get caught up in service, I can use him about anywhere else because of his training. If the business fails for some reason, his experience and degree will enable him to get other employment (I hope). The way the job market is, it's kinda hard to tell!

And the college debt thing? I worked my way thru on a work scholarship, and so did my son. So college debt was never a problem. I basically told him if he stayed in college and worked his scholarship then I'd keep him in pocket money and car gas (within reason). I did and he did so it worked out fine. All my children finished college with my assistance, but my oldest ended up with a pretty large debt because of Medical School. I helped with undergrad, but she took care of her own upper stuff. Long road, and now she's looking at "Obama-care" heading their way......wouldn't you know it!!!!

College Degree Pros & Cons (Engineering)

Pros:
1. Can say you have a degree.
2. Can take 8 hour state exams and say you are now an "engineer-in-training"
3. Can take another 1-2 day exam after 2 years of working under someone, just so you can legally call yourself an engineer.

Cons:
1. Overqualified for minimum wage jobs, so no one will even waste the time to interview you.
2. Under-qualified for all jobs that you actually want because you don't have experience.
3. Thousands, tens of thousands, or hundred of thousands in college debt.
4. End up working under an engineer for for two years, making barely enough to live on your own.
5. Probably end up living with parents, have 6 roommates, or sleep in the living room to save money.
6. Work long hours, doesn't matter if you are salaried or hourly, no one will pay you extra.

But yeah I guess if you really want to get more background in HVAC, you can be a mechanical engineer. The engineering classes might actually seem more relevant since you see the theory in action.

Depends on the grad. If you have a electro/mechanical background you should be able to transition into the trade and hit the ground running. But your right, there is no substitute for experience.

Originally Posted by air1

A ME degree would be of very little help and a tech. I would give you a better understanding of thermodynamics and fluids (air is a fluid) which would be helpful but you don't need a ME degree to learn it. You should be able learn enough in a HVAC trade school to do your job.
If you wanted to go to work for an engineering firm or a large construction firm as a project manager, then a ME degree would be helpful. If you look at the want adds for professional or managerial positions in the construction industry, they almost alway require a BS degree.

BS

After hiring trade school grad,s they don't know ANYTHING.

Originally Posted by sto2299001

Its all good air1, just unsure how ME helps a HVAC tech besides with theory, HVAC engineering and development is different entirely.

A ME degree would be of very little help and a tech. I would give you a better understanding of thermodynamics and fluids (air is a fluid) which would be helpful but you don't need a ME degree to learn it. You should be able learn enough in a HVAC trade school to do your job.
If you wanted to go to work for an engineering firm or a large construction firm as a project manager, then a ME degree would be helpful. If you look at the want adds for professional or managerial positions in the construction industry, they almost alway require a BS degree.

No school other than hard knocks for hvac....however from my background I can fix anything

And yes I am out in the field replacing A coils...however..with my background every estimate is a whole house approach looking at the thermal envelope. (I sub out the insulation work....I hate itching...and have never gotten used to it)

I have my own company. BSME was very helpful taking marketing my company from competitor with "I have been doin this for 15 years and you need 2 outlets in this room....in contrast to "I have done the load calculation and you need 200 cfm with 2 4x12 outlets to provide the throw necessary to mix the air in the room."

Physics (almost the same as ME) is great for a background in this industry. You can take classes on HVAC in theory and design. There are lots of guys on this site that don't have a degree, but have studied enough to talk in mathmatics and not "have been doin this for 20years argument......"

HOWEVER, YOU WILL LOSE jobs to the less mathematically inclined....(lost one last month with an engineer homeowner...usually don't lose those...but the other company was giving him a bigger furnace and AC and it was a Trane instead of Carrier...Oversized his furnace by 300% and put an AC in that was 400sqft per ton....) You also have to SELL.

Originally Posted by air1

Mechanical Engineering jobs certainly don't pay what they used to. The republican house just passed a bill to allow 50,000 more high tech visa so that high tech companies can import cheap labor and lower high tech labor across the board. So your point is well taken beshvac. But still, a BSME degree along with real world experience should make you a valuable asset to an employer. Just not as valuable as it used to be.
Sorry to hijack your thread sto.

Its all good air1, just unsure how ME helps a HVAC tech besides with theory, HVAC engineering and development is different entirely.

Originally Posted by beshvac

My family business when I was a kid was a trucking business...Had my chauffers license at 18 and driving trucks for money after that....was making killer money for an 18yr old but times change (you can't get the license or insurance nowadays at 18)

Started my own hvac company and compared it to the trucking business...year 1-would make more driving a truck...year 2 would make more driving a truck...year 3-making as much as driving a truck....year 4- why did I drive a truck?

On the education side...have a BSME....Year 1 making as much as an Engineer....year 2 making as much as a Mech Engr. with 4 years in....Year 3- republican run companies have sold us out to china I am making more than a chinese engineer....and my wife as a banking software programmer...her job went to india...I still make more than her after paying for her school and go back to school for 2 years and become an RN.

Just my experience....

The BSME degree didn't really help me other than Manual J, D , S and all the theory of operation. I have a background (trucking company) with mechanical repair skills most guys don't have. (was changing oil and replacing head gaskets since I was 12)

You have a degree in Mechanical Engineering? So are you working for another company and designing HVAC systems? You surely aren't out in the field replacing A coils, right? So you don't have your HVAC business anymore? A little confused, but a great post, I would like to know more? Where did you get your schooling for HVAC? Did BSME help you in HVAC? you just said it helped you with theory and manual j, if that is the case then it won't help your earnings in HVAC right?, at least not in the short term?

I would appreciate more details? Thanks alot
I feel the BSME is extremely broad and don't see how it would HVAC very much? And with my own business having that degree would be more of a novelty so I am asking you does it help you with your own business?

Mechanical Engineering jobs certainly don't pay what they used to. The republican house just passed a bill to allow 50,000 more high tech visa so that high tech companies can import cheap labor and lower high tech labor across the board. So your point is well taken beshvac. But still, a BSME degree along with real world experience should make you a valuable asset to an employer. Just not as valuable as it used to be.
Sorry to hijack your thread sto.