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Originally Posted by Cooked

Not much if it's Yahoo. You just lie about your education and credentials.

You have to think about the context of "tech," or the sector known as "silicon valley."

These are the guys that thought they were going to tear down the walls of American business. Jeans instead of suits, etc, etc. It is no surprise that they thought that it was okay to lie about things they thought were absurd requirements.

In point of fact, in order to be a CEO in demand today, you must be highly educated, skilled, and connected to the business world. No one from an average walk of life could just step into such a position because of some obtuse notion of political or social "fairness."

You are only worth what you can earn from customers or those others who pay your salary. This is not controlled by being a member of some social or financial strata in life, like the absurd idea of a "rich boys club," no, it is because of what these particular rich boys can do for the companies they lead. Yes, they are smart enough to have contracts that allow them to get paid even if the company does not succeed, but if companies did not agree to those contracts, none of the pool of available CEOs would go to work for them.


If you do work under a union contract, you can do some research, and find that your pension fund is invested in companies led by CEOs that make millions of dollars, while some of their workers make minimum wage.

In BOTH cases, the wage earned is what the MARKET determines the worker is worth, either tens of millions a year, or a few dollars an hour.

Most of what you earn is up to you, and how you increase your own worth.

Originally Posted by 2sac

Bottom line, union or not. Educate yourself and work hard. You will reap the rewards this trade has to offer.

This idea is KEY.

Whether you are a tech, or a teacher, or whatever, the most pertinent idea is how you command your personal "ship."

I just finished up two weeks of vacation. Did I go skiing? No.

Here's what I did:

1) acquired a pre-certification class CD to learn about a java-based control interface that speaks to multiple language HVAC systems

2) Started an Algebra review online

3) Started a beginner's Calculus course online

4) took a couple of days of service calls because the nearest guy has to travel two hours to get to these sites in my area.

I did this because you have to take personal responsibility for yourself and your craft, your intellect, and your life. Obama isn't going to send the secretary of education to do it for you.

Originally Posted by timebuilder

..........Any idea what is required in terms of education and and experience to be a CEO?

Not much if it's Yahoo. You just lie about your education and credentials.

I tried to go union but I was not able to convince myself that everything I had learned to that point was pointless and they were not able to look at me as a skilled person. They set the wage in my area , bless the Local 60# you have my full support...next round is on YOU.

If your going to work at a Unionized company, join the union. They have to represent you either way. I'd feel like a mooch if I didn't.
Way to poke the bear asking another Union question though.

I've done both. In my experience, you will make more on the check and in bennies in the union UNLESS you are self employed or a rip off artist. A service guy has alot more flexibility than a fitter and should be able to command the same wages or more depending on his talent. I have the ability to work on larger equipment. The ability to work in Chicago proper without getting hasseled. I don't have a boss that bothers me on my off time with questions. I no longer have to pay $400 a month for mediocre health care. I no longer get a 3k Christmas bonus. I no longer get paid holidays. Figure out what works for you.

Bottom line, union or not. Educate yourself and work hard. You will reap the rewards this trade has to offer.

Originally Posted by valdelocc

You are right! I was talking about the typical "corporation" where the workers makes minimum wage while the CEO makes 10 millions a year.
I work for a large business, been to the owners house, met his wife and kids, his house and mine don't differ by much, we work in millions dollars jobs and we all get a fair piece of the pie and thats what unions are all about.

Nothing wrong with a CEO making ten million a year. That's cheap.

His compensation is determined by the BOD, which represents the stockholders.

Every union pension is invested in these corporations.

Any idea what is required in terms of education and and experience to be a CEO?

Originally Posted by bigtime

My first choice would be to get rid of them. I just cant stand to see a few getting paid more than they are worth on the open market, and most getting what they are worth on the market.

We all pay for the union wage, not just big biz.

from what i see in the union is that you make more based on the amount of time put in kind of deal ( don't quote me on it) its one of my points of views. when i was non union if you racked in the money the boss will take care of you financially, so we were always on the go. so it will weed out the slackers real quick. long story short you were rewarded based on what you brought in. i became union and its laid back im off early, they dont call rushing you, but i prefer the hours now that im young and i can handle it. but maybe in the future i regret not staying in the union. only time will tell, union or non-union they both have there pro's and con's. ive learned its up to the tech/ individual

Originally Posted by valdelocc

You are totally wrong, union workers get pay more cause we bargain for the money, you dont pay a dime for my wages, its all open market, we make more than you cause the business owners make less, get it? we compete against union and non-union for the work.

I guess I just dont get it.

Ive swore Id never enter another union thread and here I am.

I hope you have a happy new year!

Originally Posted by valdelocc

Ok, I get it you are a big supporter of corporate welfare, lets agree to disagree.

How is it corporate welfare when it is your bosses money? It's your money also. Don't you get it that the government gets its income from you and your boss? If they stopped taking so much of it you would have more to spend and so would your boss. Therefore he would spend it to grow his business. And when your business gets bigger he needs more??....


WORKERS!!! You now those union brothers that have your back.


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Originally Posted by valdelocc

You are totally wrong, union workers get pay more cause we bargain for the money, you dont pay a dime for my wages, its all open market, we make more than you cause the business owners make less, get it? we compete against union and non-union for the work.

Hate to tell you but we do pay your wages. How many government projects has your company and union worked on? And you do not make more then non-union guys. It's all a fallacy.


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Originally Posted by qwerty hvac

Ok so if your boss could save on his taxes and have more money to put into his business do you think he would?


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Ok, I get it you are a big supporter of corporate welfare, lets agree to disagree.

Originally Posted by bigtime

My first choice would be to get rid of them. I just cant stand to see a few getting paid more than they are worth on the open market, and most getting what they are worth on the market.

We all pay for the union wage, not just big biz.

You are totally wrong, union workers get pay more cause we bargain for the money, you dont pay a dime for my wages, its all open market, we make more than you cause the business owners make less, get it? we compete against union and non-union for the work.

Originally Posted by valdelocc

I like to see all workers unionized too, dont think is going to happen but getting rid of the unions would be bad for all workers, unions tilt the scale in the opposite direction, big business fear them.

My first choice would be to get rid of them. I just cant stand to see a few getting paid more than they are worth on the open market, and most getting what they are worth on the market.

We all pay for the union wage, not just big biz.

Originally Posted by valdelocc

You are right! I was talking about the typical "corporation" where the workers makes minimum wage while the CEO makes 10 millions a year.
I work for a large business, been to the owners house, met his wife and kids, his house and mine don't differ by much, we work in millions dollars jobs and we all get a fair piece of the pie and thats what unions are all about.

Ok so if your boss could save on his taxes and have more money to put into his business do you think he would?


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Originally Posted by qwerty hvac

That is what you do not get. You work for a corporation. Small businesses are incorporated.


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You are right! I was talking about the typical "corporation" where the workers makes minimum wage while the CEO makes 10 millions a year.
I work for a large business, been to the owners house, met his wife and kids, his house and mine don't differ by much, we work in millions dollars jobs and we all get a fair piece of the pie and thats what unions are all about.

Originally Posted by bigtime

Id like to see all workers unionized, or unions abolished. Its kinda bs like it is now. A few guys making more money than most. Most guys somehow or another paying for the few guys making the most.

I like to see all workers unionized too, dont think is going to happen but getting rid of the unions would be bad for all workers, unions tilt the scale in the opposite direction, big business fear them.

Originally Posted by valdelocc

Well, your views are way to the right and if you truly believe that corporations are going to use tax breaks to hire more people, well .. I have a bridge for sale in Niagara falls, give you a good deal! let me know.

That is what you do not get. You work for a corporation. Small businesses are incorporated.


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Originally Posted by qwerty hvac

Sorry but I did not mention anything about unions. I commented on on your political statement. But since you brought it up the unions are a corporation built on your money. Many of the large union companies are corporations and most of the big jobs that union trades work on are for big corporations. So if there where no corporations where would you get all the work for your membership? See my point? You can't blame corporations for taking money when it is actually your government taking it with all the taxes that we all pay. If the government would stop spending they would be able to cut taxes and more corporations would have more money to hire union and non union alike. With all the taxes that are coming the pension you have will be taxed to death.
Also where do you think your pension money is invested in? CORPORATIONS!

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Well, your views are way to the right and if you truly believe that corporations are going to use tax breaks to hire more people, well .. I have a bridge for sale in Niagara falls, give you a good deal! let me know.

Id like to see all workers unionized, or unions abolished. Its kinda bs like it is now. A few guys making more money than most. Most guys somehow or another paying for the few guys making the most.