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Originally Posted by John Markl

It all comes down to a basic understanding of business, and how it works.

You MUST generate a profit to justify your position on the payroll....either directly or indirectly.

Some companies are better to work for than others....this is true. But business doesn't exist to create jobs. They exist to create profit for the ownership.

This country currently suffers from a maddening paradox of high unemployment and a shortage of skilled labor.

Too many people with entitlement mentalities running around saying "I'm here, pay me"...regardless of what they produce. It's finally catching up to us.

from a customers perspective, with my recent boiler thread, i had a company sales person tell me flat out they couldnt match other pricing because they were a big company with lots of overhead. Including his own paycheck he said.
which i kind of already figured. im shooting to find a independent now who is honest.
If i coud find a install person and buy the equipment myself and avoid another middle man that would be great as well.
From a customers perspective we just want the work done, on a budget, without having to call back.
From a workers view, they just want a decent paycheck for the hours they put in.
i dont have a problem paying a someone as a customer if they know what they are doing and saved me money in some way.
i think the problem comes in the dead weight the larger companys carry, need for profit for investors, etc.
These people are all middle men. Even a owner can be dead weight of a larger company sucking it dry.
Like the one i mentioned where they guy flat out told me he couldnt compete. Too much overhead (and dead weight if i had to guess).
which is fine if that is how they run their business but from a customers perspective we look at the direct relation between the work/product we are getting and what it is costing us. Anything outside of that direct relation, in my mind, is a middle man or someone in the way of both me getting the pricing or service i want and the person doing the work getting the money i am paying him (and yes, i am really paying him not the large company owner or the shareholders or anyone else ) that he deserves for doing the work and helping me.
so i have a guy work on something and i cut a check. i would like, for the majority of every penny to go to that guy. Not to the corporate monstrosity trying to push this guy to make THEM more money or the various middle men that are just trying justify having a job. None of that is a efficient business transaction that is dead weight.
im going looking for independents and small honest shops with maybe just a couple or few employees. Have one showing up today to bid. I open it to anyone who isnt a large corporation that doesnt treat their employees like crap. i want my money going to the guy doing the work as much as possible.
lol

Self worth vs. Pay

I know a couple of guys who make well into the 6 figures a year (not in hvac!) who work 80-100 hr weeks, have fancy cars they never drive, beautiful homes they barely live in and a smoking hot trophy wife who spends it faster than they can make it.

They hate their jobs and grumble about them all the time, yet they've become trapped in the American dream/nightmare convinced that a new status symbol will somehow make it all worth it.

Rant over, I've learned the hard way most companies will try to get away with paying you as little hourly as possible and offer juicy commissions to encourage you to generate a livable wage for yourself. Thus in turn making money for the business.
As others have said you are employed to make your company money, be it upselling UV bulbs to 90yr olds or billing for every nut, bolt, screw that was used on a PM or a job.
You HAVE to prove you are an asset to the boss. The tricky part is proving your value and being compensated appropriately.

Do not under estimate your value, play to your strengths and what you will bring to the party.

Its business, nothing personal. whatever makes you happy to work where ever you are, is a good job. if your not happy leave. Do not give something thinking your going to get something in return. It will demoralize you over time. remember you do this - a job- to do -that- which is, whatever makes you live out side of work. once you figure that out your way a head of the pack.

Thanks for your responses John and Barbar....I'll think on what you said before I head in for interviews.

Originally Posted by AStudent

So you are saying that the majority or techs make their money off of commission?

If that's the case I would still rather sacrifice a portion of that for a better longer career, even if that means the boss gets a bigger cut of my pay.

I've worked too many jobs where I was thought of as the lowest guy on the totem pole and didn't deserve the same treatment as others....regardless of how hard I worked. This is why I went back to school, not for money, but respect.

As far as my family...we own our house...both of our cars are paid for but they are older and will need replacing, we have very few bills.

I've seen it happen far too often where someone is making tons of cash but hate their job...that to me is a miserable life. The job and the atmosphere surrounding the job is what makes life worth living in my opinion.

If you can enjoy your job, you need never go to work!

Dropping your rate willingly will not gain you respect nor protect your future.
Your workmates, will resent you, and some bosses will just think you are muggings!
You can show commitment to your company, other than dropping your pants.
Continuing to learn is one of them! And this industry is endless in this respect, we are all students!

Originally Posted by barbar

I have to agree John, that the purpose of a business is to make money for the shareholder, it not there to employ people.
How ever your responsibility to your family.
I would not drop your rate, for the purpose of proving that you are company man. You are underselling yourself.
Any salesmans can sell cheap, a good salesmans sells worth, same with engineering. If you are good, then promote your strengths and get the reward for your strengths.
The difficulty and this where John and myself differ is the balance between profit and cost.

Forgot the NOT
sorry!

So you are saying that the majority or techs make their money off of commission?

If that's the case I would still rather sacrifice a portion of that for a better longer career, even if that means the boss gets a bigger cut of my pay.

I've worked too many jobs where I was thought of as the lowest guy on the totem pole and didn't deserve the same treatment as others....regardless of how hard I worked. This is why I went back to school, not for money, but respect.

As far as my family...we own our house...both of our cars are paid for but they are older and will need replacing, we have very few bills.

I've seen it happen far too often where someone is making tons of cash but hate their job...that to me is a miserable life. The job and the atmosphere surrounding the job is what makes life worth living in my opinion.

I have to agree John, that the purpose of a business is to make money for the shareholder, it not there to employ people.
How ever your responsibility to your family.
I would drop your rate, for the purpose of proving that you are company man. You are underselling yourself.
Any salesmans can sell cheap, a good salesmans sells worth, same with engineering. If you are good, then promote your strengths and get the reward for your strengths.
The difficulty and this where John and myself differ is the balance between profit and cost.

Originally Posted by AStudent

I'm in a situation where yes...I need to provide for my family....but money is not as important to me as a good relationship between employer and employee.

I'm willing to sacrifice a few dollars an hour in order to work hard for a company that treats me like a human being, and not just a profit.

Does this way of thinking improve my chances of getting a decent job in this field, or am I completely wrong?

It all comes down to a basic understanding of business, and how it works.

You MUST generate a profit to justify your position on the payroll....either directly or indirectly.

Some companies are better to work for than others....this is true. But business doesn't exist to create jobs. They exist to create profit for the ownership.

This country currently suffers from a maddening paradox of high unemployment and a shortage of skilled labor.

Too many people with entitlement mentalities running around saying "I'm here, pay me"...regardless of what they produce. It's finally catching up to us.

A similar thread.

Money vs. Honesty

I'm in a situation where yes...I need to provide for my family....but money is not as important to me as a good relationship between employer and employee.

I'm willing to sacrifice a few dollars an hour in order to work hard for a company that treats me like a human being, and not just a profit.

Does this way of thinking improve my chances of getting a decent job in this field, or am I completely wrong?