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Originally Posted by milkyway

This was / is a good thread!!

1.Condenser pressure 116*= 13.5psig

2.So by leaving water temp converted to psig 96*=4.6psig

3.Equals = 8.9psig



I did not realize that leaving water temp was used
to determine if air was present.

Leaving water temperature is not used to determine if air is present. Leaving water temperature is used to determine condenser approach. 'Higher condenser approaches' means some things and 'lower condenser approaches' mean other things. Low condenser approach means that the tubes are not particularly fouled and that you have good heat transfer. If you have good heat transfer, then you probably aren't low on charge and that your high condenser pressure is probably due to air in the chiller. If you had high condenser pressure AND a high condenser approach temperature then (perhaps) you are low on charge or your tubes are fouled. Remember that all equipment is in the process of degrading in performance. They all have some degree of fouled tubes, non-perfect charge, non-condensibles, etc. You START with the biggest problems and work down until you get a satisfactory piece of equipment.

This was / is a good thread!!

1.Condenser pressure 116*= 13.5psig

2.So by leaving water temp converted to psig 96*=4.6psig

3.Equals = 8.9psig



I did not realize that leaving water temp was used
to determine if air was present.

Originally Posted by TheChillerMan

I'm guessing your in Trinidad and Tobago, West Indies? Trane Service in Miami has techs that travel the Caribbean. I suggest giving them a call and having a tech go down to check this machine out for you. They could probably have it figured out in under an hour. If you need the phone number send me a PM.

You could also call Trane Puerto Rico, they could send someone down also, but I don't know their level of expertise.

i cant seem to private message ill e-mail u

now its onto changing out the bearings on the other cvhe, any body got a manual for that by chance? although i think trane might send a bullitin with the bearings, but i wanna change the seals in it as well , can or if u dont have a manual can any of u guys tell me if the seal to impeller clearences are the same as the cvhf?

Originally Posted by mr hottstepper

THE manual guage is reading the same. Purge compressor running its jus not pumping out which means there iss no air but still, the hi pressure issue is still there, this morning it was 92f, water temp was 51 dropped setpoint to 46 wen system loads pressure gradualy goes up to 16 and cut off on hi press cutout. i really dont hav much experience with the purge unit changed the purge drier yesturday incase it was saturated, at this point im totally lost

well i went back to the site today and met the unit purging on its own i loaded it up and condenser pressure is 13.5, 95% current and system is purging , .so according to the service bullitin "after you change the drier wait 72 hours to allow system to remove moisture properly",so the drier was definately saturated .. (i saw that a little to late) as luck would have it today is the 3rd day since i installed the drier. guys im so sorry for wasting your time ,but i thank you soo much for all the help and advice you gave me, if any of yall ever comin to d caribbean holla at me ill hook u guys up good ..

Originally Posted by mr hottstepper

the valves were open, i headin back down to the sight tomorrow so ill be sure to use all the info i got thanks for the serv bulletin especially, and thank you every body else let you guy know how it goes tomorrow

I'm guessing your in Trinidad and Tobago, West Indies? Trane Service in Miami has techs that travel the Caribbean. I suggest giving them a call and having a tech go down to check this machine out for you. They could probably have it figured out in under an hour. If you need the phone number send me a PM.

You could also call Trane Puerto Rico, they could send someone down also, but I don't know their level of expertise.

Don't forget what I said. Inspect the compressor for worn out valves. additionally; it was common for the expansion valve to plug up with sludge. When this happens the compressor becomes a vacuum pump and it's toast as well. My vote (from 17 years at Trane) bad condensing unit. This is a long distance diagnosis mind you

Originally Posted by Phisher

Check the purge valves and make sure they are open. Sounds obvious but someone could have serviced the purge and left them closed. Clogged orifice or closed pump out solenoid will cause the suction temperatures to remain low if the tank is full of air. When you brushed the tubes did you check them for scale? What's the saturated condenser temperature? The attached PDF has an trouble shooting guide that will show you were to take your readings and what they should be.

the valves were open, i headin back down to the sight tomorrow so ill be sure to use all the info i got thanks for the serv bulletin especially, and thank you every body else let you guy know how it goes tomorrow

Originally Posted by mr hottstepper

NO PROB DUDE, and i'm not that much of a low pressure chiller guy

These are the key words in all of this thread

Check the purge valves and make sure they are open. Sounds obvious but someone could have serviced the purge and left them closed. Clogged orifice or closed pump out solenoid will cause the suction temperatures to remain low if the tank is full of air. When you brushed the tubes did you check them for scale? What's the saturated condenser temperature? The attached PDF has an trouble shooting guide that will show you were to take your readings and what they should be.

Have you let the machine sit and checked pressures? Possible someone added R-11?

you said there was another trane of the same model/ser does it have the same purge to compare ? do you have a low pressure pumpout unit handy and a recovery drum..... have you leak tested not just by purge count? consider a new purge or a REDI PURGE sorry i keep reading post again , verify cond flow delta p, do a gpm calc & compare to design if you can get it

Originally Posted by mr hottstepper

NOPE theres no exchanger on the condenser frame actually looked to see if it had one cause i had to do the same with a carrier XRV centrifugal last year but it was 134a not vaccum. i even inspected the rapture guard ,cuz that has a way of spoiling a good day.

Originally Posted by klove

No offense intended. I wish you the best of luck in figuring out where your problem lies.

NO PROB DUDE, i jus needed some insight in the low pressure side of the system cause i saw so many potential problems and i'm not that much of a low pressure chiller guy

Originally Posted by mr hottstepper

im not tryin to argue or make enimies,or waste time im a contractor trying to make money and learn cuz i really love thermodynamics, just like u , and i think i have a valid question and a problem thats worth bringing forward and i have tried most of what was recommended by other members before so i dont think im that bad off.im from the caribbean btw , i tend to get a little beside myself sometimes , . dude i jus wanna get the equipment running ,i just asked for a lil help im sure when u started to work on these equipment you didnt know everything, but i welcome a challange cuz this isnt really a js compressor or screw,or gas fired absorb system,or one of those tecogen natural gas engine driven chillers, it is a piece of work and i really wanna see this job tru, ....and if u guys think thats something they want me to overhaul the backup cvhe chiller from pre rotational veins the works befor the year ends , the bearings in the motor are singing away, i alreddy signed up to go la croose for cvhe mechanical but they said i have to do cvhe fundementals first,but cuz of my good business with them they will try get me in the mechanical on nov 1st but i cant leave the equipment hanging till then, so im here jus tryin get some advice frm u guys, beside how would u like it if u went to get a light bulb in the supermarket and they told you they only sell light bulbs to electricans. u doh hav to gimme such a hard time because i dont no more about low pressure centrifugal than you.

No offense intended. I wish you the best of luck in figuring out where your problem lies.

Haven't read this entire thread, but it is not uncommon after 30-80K hours for the compressor valves to fail on the condensing unit. When the valves fail or partially fail the unit simply will not do its job. Check the discharge line when it's running. It should be quite hot to the touch, if it isn't then order a new condensing unit (complete) new expansion valve and copper-spun dryer.

Originally Posted by deltap10

If the condenser has a marine water box,open that end and check the divider plate. I've had to weld new channels in many of them.

NOPE theres no exchanger on the condenser frame actually looked to see if it had one cause i had to do the same with a carrier XRV centrifugal last year but it was 134a not vaccum. i even inspected the rapture guard ,cuz that has a way of spoiling a good day.

If the condenser has a marine water box,open that end and check the divider plate. I've had to weld new channels in many of them.

Originally Posted by klove

No idea what country you're in. I looked at your location and it says "tt, wi". I thought you were in Tubert Town, Wisconsin. I also read your biography. I must say that there's a lot of intrinsic praise in there. Based on that, I'll stick with my first post as my best suggestion.

im not tryin to argue or make enimies,or waste time im a contractor trying to make money and learn cuz i really love thermodynamics, just like u , and i think i have a valid question and a problem thats worth bringing forward and i have tried most of what was recommended by other members before so i dont think im that bad off.im from the caribbean btw , i tend to get a little beside myself sometimes , . dude i jus wanna get the equipment running ,i just asked for a lil help im sure when u started to work on these equipment you didnt know everything, but i welcome a challange cuz this isnt really a js compressor or screw,or gas fired absorb system,or one of those tecogen natural gas engine driven chillers, it is a piece of work and i really wanna see this job tru, ....and if u guys think thats something they want me to overhaul the backup cvhe chiller from pre rotational veins the works befor the year ends , the bearings in the motor are singing away, i alreddy signed up to go la croose for cvhe mechanical but they said i have to do cvhe fundementals first,but cuz of my good business with them they will try get me in the mechanical on nov 1st but i cant leave the equipment hanging till then, so im here jus tryin get some advice frm u guys, beside how would u like it if u went to get a light bulb in the supermarket and they told you they only sell light bulbs to electricans. u doh hav to gimme such a hard time because i dont no more about low pressure centrifugal than you.

Originally Posted by deltap10

Purifier or Earthwise? What control panel? I rarely see a HP trip because the surging is so bad before that someone shuts the machine down or it goes down on extended surge. Get someone to help you with this one. Read the purge literature. Isolate the purge and do refrigeration temp.checks. Add some air to the purge chamber. You should see the suction temp. drop rapidly. Check the pumpout orofice for dirt. Manually energize pumpout comp. Does it pull 28" vacuum? Do solenoids energize and open? Can you see R123 cycling through sight glass? Install bypass hose or remove orofice until air is out. Leak check chiller. Repair leaks.

purifer, ucp1, no surge machine jus runs to 16psig and cuts on hi press cutout

Originally Posted by mr hottstepper

as far as getting someone else to come check it lets put it like this there are probaly about 6 people in my country that works on chillers 2 that work on trane systems and low pressure centrifugal systems the other people who currently holds the contract asked(begged) me to take over and fix it for them , besides most of the centrifugal problems are electronic which is to easy to repair, ... but i have anaylized thge system and was just askin for a little insight on what could be wrong from people with more experience in this PARTICULAR type of low pressure system , so the only other people to call are u gyus . after all thats the porpuse of this forum to ask for a lil help - then again i could be wrong.................

No idea what country you're in. I looked at your location and it says "tt, wi". I thought you were in Tubert Town, Wisconsin. I also read your biography. I must say that there's a lot of intrinsic praise in there. Based on that, I'll stick with my first post as my best suggestion.