Reply to Thread

I have no idea where the high voltage was connected to the unit. It wasn't where I could see it on the front side. There was an obvious rub hole in the flex connector. I hard pipe everything, keep 1/2 and 3/4 fittings and nips on the truck.

Here's my thought....even though the flex was improperly installed. I have seen where some localities require the gas service to be "bonded" or grounded to the electric service. Some localities do not require this. I have seen where there is a weak, loose or bad main neutral connection in the panel box or even the electric meter will cause current to seek a ground through the ground connection in the furnace which is of course hooked to the gas line. In this case it may have done that and arced to the gas line and burning a hole in it thus your "fire". The gas line of course can be a good ground. I also do electrical work and I can tell you many times I have connected or disconnected a groung wire from a main service to a water or gas line and got an arc! Any arc at all will signify a neutral issue in the main service.

Originally Posted by Kobe RBVBD

Yes the flex is one thing that is wrong. The vibrations from the furnace can loosen or cut the flex. It is supposed to be hard piped from the gas valve and out the cabinet. Typically you make a drip leg right after the hard pipe exits the cabinet, and run the flex off the drip leg. But I am not sure a drip leg is required everywhere. It definitely is in my area.

The shutoff valve has to be in a open, easily accessible area. It can't be behind a door or behind any equipment. If you are standing in front of a water heater or furnace, you should be able to see the shutoff valve easily and shut it off without moving your body.

This I get, thanks.

It was hearthman's post that I was wanting clarity on.

Originally Posted by pacnw

help me understand your post a little.

As I look at the photos I think the furnace is the metal you see and not a duct run.

Are you saying that neither a shut off, flex/union or piping can be in that area because it is a duct run and therefore when closed it is not accessible AND/OR it may leak.

OR

Assuming it is just the joist space and the furnace cabinet you see, the piping and shut off are okay, but the flex is the only thing wrong(run through the cabinet).

Yes the flex is one thing that is wrong. The vibrations from the furnace can loosen or cut the flex. It is supposed to be hard piped from the gas valve and out the cabinet. Typically you make a drip leg right after the hard pipe exits the cabinet, and run the flex off the drip leg. But I am not sure a drip leg is required everywhere. It definitely is in my area.

The shutoff valve has to be in a open, easily accessible area. It can't be behind a door or behind any equipment. If you are standing in front of a water heater or furnace, you should be able to see the shutoff valve easily and shut it off without moving your body.

Originally Posted by hearthman

The OP did not provide adequate information on this but from the pics, it would appear the installer ran gas piping through the return panning, which is not allowed by code, nor is installing a shutoff in a confined space, much less an air duct and certainly flexible appliance connectors are not tested or listed for use in confined unventilated spaces passing unprotected through sheetmetal. Hard to tell from the pics but if the flex was damaged down by the gas combination valve, it could be sucked up into the return where, once ignited down by the valve, could explain the burn pattern.

I agree with Pacnw: instead of vilifying the product, condemn the improper installation and mis-application of the product. Used properly, they have an excellent track record.

help me understand your post a little.

As I look at the photos I think the furnace is the metal you see and not a duct run.

Are you saying that neither a shut off, flex/union or piping can be in that area because it is a duct run and therefore when closed it is not accessible AND/OR it may leak.

OR

Assuming it is just the joist space and the furnace cabinet you see, the piping and shut off are okay, but the flex is the only thing wrong(run through the cabinet).

Correct, it ran thru the furnace cabinet directly to the valve, with a loop in it because there was too much extra, it vibrated against the cabinet and created a leak.

We never use flex connectors. They do have a place, on a stove or drier.

about 25 years ago I worked for fairway plumbing and heating in hayward!

I also lived in union city.

moved to kansas in 94.

Originally Posted by supertek65

where you from Kobe?

i am from woodside ca.

I am in Dublin, CA

where you from Kobe?

i am from woodside ca.

correct
as long as they do not pass thru a cabinet and are readily accesible.

we usually run all the black iron in the furnace cabinet and stub out a couple inches, then flex and then gas cock and drip leg.

Originally Posted by Kobe RBVBD

Here in CA, or at least the Bay Area CA, these gas flexes are a requirement rather than an option. It is part of earthquake safety. So it is not optional to hard pipe it all the way. Those would be called as a safety hazard by the City inspectors.

Here in CA, or at least the Bay Area CA, these gas flexes are a requirement rather than an option. It is part of earthquake safety. So it is not optional to hard pipe it all the way. Those would be called as a safety hazard by the City inspectors.

Hmmm... Seems to me an install issue, not a product issue.

While we are on the subject of flex gas hoses... I am glad they are coated now.

We mostly use 18" flex gas hoses as a 'connector' between the shut-off and the pipe coming out of the furnace (drip leg is on the pipe coming out of the furnace). They are nice for this application. IMO flex gas hoses should NEVER touch anything... NEVER!

all mechanical codes state that UNIONS must be readily accesible!!!

gas flex is a union!

and flex lines can not pass thru cabinets.

Yeah, the code here is that the entire flex must be visible and easily accessible. That's a definite code violation and improper use of a flex.

OMG!!!!!!!!!!

The OP did not provide adequate information on this but from the pics, it would appear the installer ran gas piping through the return panning, which is not allowed by code, nor is installing a shutoff in a confined space, much less an air duct and certainly flexible appliance connectors are not tested or listed for use in confined unventilated spaces passing unprotected through sheetmetal. Hard to tell from the pics but if the flex was damaged down by the gas combination valve, it could be sucked up into the return where, once ignited down by the valve, could explain the burn pattern.

I agree with Pacnw: instead of vilifying the product, condemn the improper installation and mis-application of the product. Used properly, they have an excellent track record.

the issue is not the flex, but its improper installation!!

a flex is fine when instructions, common sense and codes are followed and the only way to connect a stove, clothes dryer or other moveable appliance. they are also code in some municipalities for earthquake safety.

You would have to know the guy. I swear it could have leaked for 6 months before he did anything... His girlfriend is the one that finally said something.

How do you smell gas for a week and not do something about it? I guess its no worse then the call I found a cracked hx on, the renter asked if that was what had been setting off her carbon monoxide alarm, she then said it was real annoying so she took the batteries out.

I am not sure how it ignited. He had been smelling gas for about a week. Intake pipe was laying on the ground so I would assume it pulled gas in there and lit it.