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it's just bigger stuff with more expensive parts if you smoke one out. it will intimidate you, but you'll get used to it. ... the one brand I don't understand is trane.... never get how that thing works. the basic principal is the same. as built unit will jog your brain a lot more, but it's just similar. I work with a lot of packaged rooftop, which is just a glorified 80% furnace with AC coil.... you will run into alot of junky one that needs to get going just for one more season for the last 20 years.... oh don't puncture the roof, they really hate that. or if you do make sure you hide it really well.... lol
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))*(&^(*&^(*^$^%$$%&*&^%%#^###$$$^%$$%^*^^&*&^%&(* )(*&())(**^%$%%&*^E$%%^$$$@@#$%&^%#$%^%#%$####$%%& ^&&&(**&^^^&*$#$!#$^%$%^$%^&*&(&&^)(&^%&*(*&&)**** ()++_)()+++__)()()(*^&(*&*&*&%$%%^**&*%$$$%&$%#$%^ &^%^*& Originally Posted by Tech Rob Don't worry, I speak Max lol What he is saying is he has gotten service calls on large Trane Intellipaks where they would cool fine in the mornings using an outside air economizer, and then when the sun comes up and the heat hits in late-morning to early-afternoon, the unit calls for DX compressor cooling. Because of the way the older style Intellipaks were wired, a bad condenser fan motor that shorted to ground and blew the fuses would cause the control power transformer primary side power to be lost, along with communication to the unit. Some people would mis-diagnose this as a bad transformer and confidently walk into the parts-house looking for a new transformer. This resulted in much laughter and ridicule of said technician. The right thing to do is to move the wires that go to the primary side of the transformer to a line voltage terminal block to get the unit operational while you go to pick up a new fan motor.
Originally Posted by maxster how about his one...with cool mornings comin around with the first day of fall here,the call will be the unit runs in the "cool" morning but shuts down in the "warmer" afternoons and control power is lost within the rooftop....situatuin fix supply fan runs fine to do econo cooling then the afternoon sun swings and a call for DX happens bad condenser fan motor blows the fuses and with that the primary to the control TR is lost..sen guys walk in with one of those boat anchor big Trane rooftop TRs i found the problem.quick fix to gie them cooling swing the TR primary over to the compressor contact L side or the block...go get a motor Don't worry, I speak Max lol What he is saying is he has gotten service calls on large Trane Intellipaks where they would cool fine in the mornings using an outside air economizer, and then when the sun comes up and the heat hits in late-morning to early-afternoon, the unit calls for DX compressor cooling. Because of the way the older style Intellipaks were wired, a bad condenser fan motor that shorted to ground and blew the fuses would cause the control power transformer primary side power to be lost, along with communication to the unit. Some people would mis-diagnose this as a bad transformer and confidently walk into the parts-house looking for a new transformer. This resulted in much laughter and ridicule of said technician. The right thing to do is to move the wires that go to the primary side of the transformer to a line voltage terminal block to get the unit operational while you go to pick up a new fan motor.
Dude! I didn't understand a word you just said! how about english for us lamen.
how about his one...with cool mornings comin around with the first day of fall here,the call will be the unit runs in the "cool" morning but shuts down in the "warmer" afternoons and control power is lost within the rooftop....situatuin fix supply fan runs fine to do econo cooling then the afternoon sun swings and a call for DX happens bad condenser fan motor blows the fuses and with that the primary to the control TR is lost..sen guys walk in with one of those boat anchor big Trane rooftop TRs i found the problem.quick fix to gie them cooling swing the TR primary over to the compressor contact L side or the block...go get a motor
I have been doing this for a long time and I still am learning
Originally Posted by supertek65 What kind of units are you talking about??? Either way You will need to read. Are you going to get training Or school I am working on package units, not one brand, all different brands. I went to school, and worked in residential for a while, and was going out on my own in residential, now that I am in Commercial I am still out on my own, but lots of times find myself calling people for support, where as before I did not do that, well not as much. I have no problems reading. I still have my school books next to me, I am even thinking of keeping it in my truck. Originally Posted by Workin4TheMan The best way to troubleshoot any machine is to first learn it's "Sequence of Operation" once you know that, when things aren't working you have an idea where to start. And being able to follow a wiring diagram is critical. Remember we all started knowing nothing I understand the Sequence of Operation in residential work well, and follow a residential wiring diagram, it's a little easier, so if something is wrong it's easy to spot. Most of the time in commercial I have found it's not as easy to follow, nor is it as easy to spot the problem. I appreciate the nice comment about we all start knowing nothing, that is why I turned here, I wanted to find out how others learned this side of things.
I try to seek for a new job without letting my socical network know Originally Posted by NY2GA01 I have always wanted to work in Commercial Heating and Air Conditioning and refrigeration, I now have finally landed a job in that area (no more crawl spaces for me). What I did not realize was the world of hurt I was putting myself in. Bigger / more controls, bigger / more boards, bigger and more compressors, bigger and more contactors, more power, robbing t stats, make up air, vents, and the list goes on. I was not aware how big the difference is between commercial and residential work was, but I do like it more ( no crawl spaces). My new boss is well respected by his employees and has treated me great, not sure how many employees there is in all, but I have met 5 of them, and the shortest term employee is 15 years. My boss hired two new guys, me and this other guy that just got past his 90 days who I just met the other day. I am very excited to have landed this job with this company, and hope to grow with them for years to come (I see great long term potential, and lots of growth with opportunity this company). I have a few questions here. Do you guys have any tricks that you have come up with to help make working on these units easier? I keep getting told to treat each unit as one unit, just like in residential. Told to just break it in to each individual units, but that is hard to do when everything is all tied together, and the wires are all over the place, and you got a few boards, more controls, 3 compressors in one unit. I am open to any and all ideas. Very impressive - for me is the challenge to fly under the social radar, because I dont want my friends to know about my job search. Best not to post links on your first post. The Mods will think you are a spammer and delete your account Edit by Dad
I try to seek for a new job without letting my socical network know
and the last one was a high capacity 75 ton beauty made in clarksville!!!!!!!
LOL! i have used more of those fuses on TB5 and TB6 on an IPAK trying to figure out if it is high head, motor protector or stupid circuit breaker!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! compressor 1 and compressor 2 circuit trip!!!!!!!!!!!!! grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Originally Posted by Tech Rob And how many 1/20 amp fuses did he use up finding the "bad" oil pressure control? lol I am lucky that they beat that system and circuit into our brains relentlessly where I work.
Originally Posted by supertek65 That is so funny !!! Just had a guy replace oil safety and who knows what else on on old raua! It was a bad condenser fan!!! Lmao!!! And how many 1/20 amp fuses did he use up finding the "bad" oil pressure control? lol I am lucky that they beat that system and circuit into our brains relentlessly where I work.
That is so funny !!! Just had a guy replace oil safety and who knows what else on on old raua! It was a bad condenser fan!!! Lmao!!! Originally Posted by Tech Rob Some guys that work for the manufacturer still don't know how a reset relay works, lol
Originally Posted by supertek65 Learn how a reset relay works!! Lol Some guys that work for the manufacturer still don't know how a reset relay works, lol
Learn how a reset relay works!! Lol
I know how you feel man...but I'm still waiting for that call for that job!! From my limited prior commercial RTU experience, I can give some advice because I actually completey understand how you feel...LOST! So, let's look at it this way: 1. Yes, you have to learn how to decipher those schematics ,that will come. 2. First and foremost, you have to be able to look inside the unit and 100% identify ALL components and wires. Beleive it or not, this may be easier for you than mastering the schematics because schematics are drawn differently than what you will actually see with your eyes. 3. try to group all the 3 phase contactors stuff as one working component first because that will include alot of the separate components your looking at 4. then separate the controls from the rest and look closer at those: BTDR's(blower time delay relays) are always a pain in the butt.(if they even have them anymore)because they are part of the startup sequence, so troubleshooting relays is a must. 5. Learn the safety circuits by heart and separate those out also...that would be your sensors and limits etc, that are linked in series with the start-up sequence...being able to jump out components,, while maintaining the safety circuit is imperative to finding bad parts. 6. try to add the economizer into your existing operational knowledge and separate out it's proprietary controls, this will be very new to you. 7. you will come across multiple stage operations that will complicate everything 100%...try to carve those operations out and look at them separately too. As you can see, we have quite a list here, however looking at things in smaller operational groups will help...remember if you don't know what it looks like, you don't know it's there, if you don't know it's there, then you don't know when its NOT working!!!
Refrigeration is refrigeration, no matter how big or small the equipment. Electrical theory is electrical theory, no matter how big or small the equipment. If you're weak in those area's, it will never get easy for you.
Originally Posted by toocoolforschool The days of punching a contactor in with a screwdriver are over.
The days of punching a contactor in with a screwdriver are over.
Good job, and good luck!!! Commercial HVAC is a field that'll definitely keep your brain engaged! If you're on this site to begin with, you're probably someone who is committed to being a student of the trade and understanding this stuff on a level that most don't care to. First and foremost, you need to understand how to work on this big stuff safely without getting yourself killed by the multitude of moving parts, high temperatures, and high voltages. You need to have an understanding of electricity, motors, and motor controls that far surpasses what most electricians know. You're still working with a vapor-compression refrigeration cycle; the fundamentals are not much different from what you're used to working with. When you run into a system that you don't understand or haven't seen before, try to find some literature on it and spend a few minutes reading when you're in your van eating your lunch or whatever. DO NOT be too proud to pick up the phone and ask your co-workers questions or find the tech support numbers for each manufacturer. Most people are eager to help you if they see that you're not just being lazy and looking for the answer without working for it. When you're troubleshooting something, gather info and readings in a methodical way, jot them down on a pad, and try to look at the big picture. Troubleshooting is a process of elimination. Start with the simple, cheap stuff, and work your way up to the complex, spendy stuff until you find the problem. The commercial field can be very rewarding to work in, professionally and financially. Best of luck to you.
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