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[QUOTE=larnot;15367711] Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech IMO it is too late to pay to stockpile R-22... might end up with an up-side-down investment./QUOTE] My understanding is that if there is a system that 'leaks' a pound a year ( and there are Millions), then there will be a need to top off with 22. Drop ins only work correctly when they are the only refrigerant in the system. Yeah... a # a year leak is something that will get a 'gas and go' call for a while. However if it is a coil going bad... next year it will be 2.5 to 3#... and the year after that it will be 5#. Not too long until the cost to gas it is not a good value to the customer. Then it is time to discuss with the customer whether to repair the system and change gas... or change systems.
[QUOTE=larnot;15367711] Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech IMO it is too late to pay to stockpile R-22... might end up with an up-side-down investment./QUOTE] My understanding is that if there is a system that 'leaks' a pound a year ( and there are Millions), then there will be a need to top off with 22. Drop ins only work correctly when they are the only refrigerant in the system. While I didn't stockpile R12, I still seem to be stuck with over 20 lbs of it. Still it doesn't eat anything so I will let it hang around. Wish I had some 502 for the very few ice machines that are still out there.
Yes LN, that is correct.
[QUOTE=ga-hvac-tech;15366931]IMO it is too late to pay to stockpile R-22... might end up with an up-side-down investment./QUOTE] My understanding is that if there is a system that 'leaks' a pound a year ( and there are Millions), then there will be a need to top off with 22. Drop ins only work correctly when they are the only refrigerant in the system.
I didn't stockpile any r22. Was scared of drop ins coming out and being stuck with a bunch if r22.
Originally Posted by lytning I wonder how much R22 everyone has stockpiled. I still have 25 lbs of R12. Probably have to pay to dispose of it sometime. IMO it is too late to pay to stockpile R-22... might end up with an up-side-down investment.
I wonder how much R22 everyone has stockpiled. I still have 25 lbs of R12. Probably have to pay to dispose of it sometime.
I was at RE Michel the other day, they sell Nor-dyne, Broad, Tappen, Air-temp and other stuff, but they have the best price on 410 at $ after tax, with R-22 at $ for 30lbs, they said both Honeywell and DuPont told them that R-22 will be a $ by this Summer.
So what I really want to know is ......Is there anybody out there that has been using a different refrigerant than r22 to charge dry charge condensers shipped with poe already in it? Whether it is r407c or mo99. How does it work and have you had any problems or call backs due to using a replacement? Because obviously when we ask the parts house they are going to tell us whatever they are told to say or told to sell us....O ya and I don't think we are suppose to talk about prices but r407c at united is under 165 dollars right now and I have heard that r22 at some places is over 500.
Originally Posted by newoldtech Oh yea, money is usually behind everything. Two of the bigger supply houses by me, one sells MO99 and the other one pushes 422B(NU22). They are about the same price at around $250. They both say that their product works great and the one that they dont sell they claim doesn't. Its mostly salemanship. I stopped totally believing people who are selling me something along time ago. I take it all with a grain of salt and wait for time, personal experience and consensus to guide me. I recently bought a jug of 422B. I haven't used it yet. But I plan on slowly implementing it if all goes well. So in a few years to do service I will need to carry r422, m099, r407c and r410a. Man I need a bigger truck! But on a serious note. Went to a class last week at a Rheem dealer and they were pushing m099 for a replacement. But said their dry units would start coming with POE oil in them . He stated it would be awhile before we saw them as they have a large stock of units now with mineral oil.
Originally Posted by newoldtech Probably because like many things in our industry, the rules change every twenty minutes depending on who you ask. Or whose pockets get lined.
Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech Possibly another reason: Thermalzone is sold by United Refrigeration (probably others also)... UR owns National Refrigerants, they make 407C. They do not make )or sell) MO99... so that one is not approved. Hmmmmm... Oh yea, money is usually behind everything. Two of the bigger supply houses by me, one sells MO99 and the other one pushes 422B(NU22). They are about the same price at around $. They both say that their product works great and the one that they dont sell they claim doesn't. Its mostly salemanship. I stopped totally believing people who are selling me something along time ago. I take it all with a grain of salt and wait for time, personal experience and consensus to guide me. I recently bought a jug of 422B. I haven't used it yet. But I plan on slowly implementing it if all goes well.
Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech Procedure you mention is pretty much the same for most of them... unless there is an oil compatibility issue. MO99 has an oil additive to help. Originally Posted by newoldtech Probably because like many things in our industry, the rules change every twenty minutes depending on who you ask. Possibly another reason: Thermalzone is sold by United Refrigeration (probably others also)... UR owns National Refrigerants, they make 407C. They do not make )or sell) MO99... so that one is not approved. Hmmmmm...
Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech What is interesting about that is: Thermalzone is another of the Rheem/Ruud clones... Wonder why one clone says no, while another says yes... Curious... Probably because like many things in our industry, the rules change every twenty minutes depending on who you ask.
Originally Posted by acguytx there was a company at a trade show pushing r421a and its called choice from dynatemp.. they state its as simple as recovering r22 basic flush new filter dryer and drop this 421 in and it will charge and react like r22.. any info on this stuff? Procedure you mention is pretty much the same for most of them... unless there is an oil compatibility issue. MO99 has an oil additive to help.
there was a company at a trade show pushing r421a and its called choice from dynatemp.. they state its as simple as recovering r22 basic flush new filter dryer and drop this 421 in and it will charge and react like r22.. any info on this stuff?
What is interesting about that is: Thermalzone is another of the Rheem/Ruud clones... Wonder why one clone says no, while another says yes... Curious...
Well that's funny because I was just at the parts house (united refrigeration) and they told me that there dry charge condensers come with poe oil and are r407c ready. They even recommended it due to the extremely high r22 prices. I think the brand they carry is Thermal Zone, not 100% on that tho. Condensers in my area are getting stolen all the time and some of these customers just don't have the money for a complete change out (rental units). When he told me the price of the r407c it really makes it affordable, However if a couple months down the road when the temps are over 100 degrees I really don't want to get stuck with a bunch of units that cant keep up. What to do? I have 2 units on deck and I need to make a decision.....My out look has always been you get what pay for....and even tho r407c has been around for awhile I have not used it yet
I think you'll find that 407 is a blend of 410a and 134a...not sure the proportions, but think it's around 50/50 (of course, they are both blends to begin with). I was also told that POE and mineral do not have a problem together. Have also seen/heard that manufacturers are stating NOT to use 407 instead of 22, or else no warranty.
Update: I was at the SureComfort (Rheem/Ruud builder grade name) shop today, free lunch (literally... ). I was talking to the store manager... we got to talking about dry units. I mentioned the 407C thing and he said TPTB said NO. I asked if we could go out in the warehouse and look at one... we did. The label has been changed since the one I saw (installed) last summer... it says R-22 only. SOOO... I stand corrected (things changed). Now I have no personal knowledge of any dry unit that uses any refrigerant other than R-22. Given this fact, as well as the price of R-22... IMO the thing to do is sell them a new 410 system (I am speaking of residential systems).
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