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you have to get an permit just for the p-trap lol. SF is a super union city, luckily for me I'm in a non-union highrise downtown doing the stationery engineering nowadays. Was in a union com/ind. HVAC provider, I actually got followed across the bay bridge to Oakland, guy from a different company. Demanded to see my union credentials for whatever reason, I didn't have the million stickers on my truck. Had a "polite" conversation and went on my way. NOT trying to flame on unions, just personally have had..experiences.. went to a PM, reported black widows in all the York RTUs covering the control board area, in the duct-work. Came back, still there after the exterminator.. my union steward said, "well, do your best . Got bit three times in the leg, off work for a week and had an infected vein to the lymph nodes in my leg.. went back to work, "welllll coulda' happened anywhere" says my shop and union.. no pay. Off my soap box! lol

Awesome post Ben, thanks!

Phil, now those wall mounted pads make more sense to me...

He, He, SFhvacguy I have done a few installs near SF some in Richmond and Oakland, Red Wood etc but they were all furnace only no evap or condensor. No sweating in the bay, too cold I like that. Never done anything in SF due to you can't even swing a hammer w/o the union collecting fees. I was told you have to have the teamsters deliver your units, electric union run your power and carpenters and plumbing unions build your platform and do your drain/gas damn.

Glues for paper wood and kit cars. Braze is for refrigeration, solder possibly in an emergency situation.

Originally Posted by philjafo

No, I provided that mound with a shovel and a wheelbarrow, the dirt was in the backyard from the excavation of the foundation. If I remember correctly the pad was 36 x 36 and just about three feet tall on the pile. I no longer work for that person anymore, I knew it was wrong when i did it, but the man that signs the paycheck said do it.

Poles.

But I have also thrown a condenser on soft soil myself before, knowing it was going to lean to one side.
GC says we're ready, he gets the choice. Do it now, or pay me a fee and we come back another day.
He chooses do it now, he signs off on it. It fails, we come back and fix it for a fee.

Thats the only way you make money in RNC. Otherwise they jerk you around for extra trips. The smart GC's learn to call around and make sure it's ready, not just go by what they "think" they're ready for.

BTW:
1107.5.4 Copper tubing joints. Copper tubing joints used in refrigerating systems containing Group A2, A3, B2 or B3 refrigerants shall be brazed. Soldered joints shall not be used in such refrigerating systems.

Did he look like my avatar?

Originally Posted by philjafo

No, I provided that mound with a shovel and a wheelbarrow, the dirt was in the backyard from the excavation of the foundation. If I remember correctly the pad was 36 x 36 and just about three feet tall on the pile. I no longer work for that person anymore, I knew it was wrong when i did it, but the man that signs the paycheck said do it.

No, I provided that mound with a shovel and a wheelbarrow, the dirt was in the backyard from the excavation of the foundation. If I remember correctly the pad was 36 x 36 and just about three feet tall on the pile. I no longer work for that person anymore, I knew it was wrong when i did it, but the man that signs the paycheck said do it.

Just curious, did the contractor provide that dirt mound because that was the expected final grade?

Originally Posted by philjafo

I accept the op's dare. Here is one I did my first year in the trade. It was new construction over an hour drive from the shop and the boss said "I don't care, the contractor is demanding that the ac be running so do it." and do it I did. A week later we had to go back because the backhoe knocked it off the pad when back filling the rest of the foundation.
Attachment 346651Attachment 346661

That's the spirit... show us your worst, but don't keep doing that $#!T

Originally Posted by philjafo

I accept the op's dare. Here is one I did my first year in the trade. It was new construction over an hour drive from the shop and the boss said "I don't care, the contractor is demanding that the ac be running so do it." and do it I did. A week later we had to go back because the backhoe knocked it off the pad when back filling the rest of the foundation.
Attachment 346651Attachment 346661

Here's the thread I should have read FIRST... but I was not a member then...

http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread....ro-copper-glue

Originally Posted by viceman

is this a joke? you seriously use this stuff? im not trying to be a jerk here but i can't imagine using glue to repair a refer circuit. on the other hand if this stuff works i am all ears!

The chemical bond from this stuff is incredible, but the instructions are weird. You must use COARSE 60 GRIT sandpaper (provided) to rough the pipe, and do not wipe off the sanding dust. Then when you apply the red "glue" you wet BOTH surfaces because if you don't the stuff sets up so fast on insertion that the joint will be "cold" (not enough spreading/flowing). The copper dust is what catalyzes the reaction and it gets HOT. A slight twist is advised if possible, most likely you won't be able to go more than 15 degrees before it LOCKS. You must wait 12 minutes to reach 850psi strength (or to pressurize system), but I was evacuating within 5 minutes of application and opening the precharged condenser unit valves by 20 minutes as soon as 500 microns was pulled and stable on the lineset. This is Arizona and there was unmeasurable relative humidity (seriously we are that dry) at this install, so vacuum is very fast on a 5 CFM 2-stage pump.

If I were doing daily work on locations where I routinely swap compressors or filters, I'd use this stuff. The issue I have is that I do much more PM and service between compressor change-outs. And the product was getting too old in my truck from the high summer heat (140 F in the truck just about all the time when parked).

Here's some of the manufacturer's information and a video http://www.youtube.com/share_popup?v=U4Jk0oH2Ijo

Features
HVAC SUPER PRO is an innovative, single-part, solder-less bonding product that is easy to use and specifically formulated for HVAC and refrigeration systems.

• Bonds Aluminun, Copper, and Brass in any combination.
• 70% Faster than brazing.
• Makes the same number of bonds as 1-1/2 pounds of brazing rods.
• Cost less than 1/3 the cost of 15% silver brazing rods.
• Never damge electronic circuits like thermal expamsion valves and reversing valves.
• Reaches 850 psi in 12-minutes (1200 psi in 2 hours).
• Compatible with all refrigerants and oils including poe oils.
• Temperature range -650F to 3500F.

Originally Posted by GJ-HVAC/R

Agreed. I would be willing to try it on my home. But thats it until it proves itself further.

I probably should have provided that information. I used it on 1) my house, 2) my friend at work (this photo), and 3) Brother-In-Law's house. All three knew they were Guinea pigs except that my BIL did not know the product was too old. Neither did I until looking at a bottle at the store, realizing my stuff was dark purple instead of bright blood red.

Attachment 346701

BTW, I used it on HIGH PRESSURE lines on purpose, because if it can't handle the pressure, I wanted to know.

I accept the op's dare. Here is one I did my first year in the trade. It was new construction over an hour drive from the shop and the boss said "I don't care, the contractor is demanding that the ac be running so do it." and do it I did. A week later we had to go back because the backhoe knocked it off the pad when back filling the rest of the foundation.
Attachment 346651Attachment 346661

Originally Posted by jakeesspoo

Interesting thread. I have never heard of this product in question. I would never try it on a customer I suppose without great results or it becoming the industry "norm". I would maybe think of using something like this at my mechanical testing facility (my own home) for sh*ts and giggles to see the results. I am 33 years old and like everyone else have seen products and technology continually advance. I try to stay open minded of new products but in these cases would rather be a follower than a leader. It's often hard to try something new when you know the "old way" is proven to work (in most cases). Many may disagree but I would love to see the day when there is a pex type tubing refrigerant line to be used. For all I know it's been tried in the industry or is under development. That's my dream though a kink free line set

Agreed. I would be willing to try it on my home. But thats it until it proves itself further.

Originally Posted by benatwhodotnet

I've used it 3 times total, including the failure. The first two times within a month of acquiring the bottle. I have a photo from 3/27/2010 showing the bottle... even though the purpose of the photo was to document removal of the block fencing that restricted air flow to the unit.

Attachment 346221Attachment 346231

Note that the red bottle is visible on the pad. I have not used it since the failure over a year later on 9/6/2011. I prefer 15% silver sticks... always have, just tried something new.

I can't believe somebody let you tear down that screen wall. All you had to do was shorten your lines to move the unit back closer to the house.

Interesting thread. I have never heard of this product in question. I would never try it on a customer I suppose without great results or it becoming the industry "norm". I would maybe think of using something like this at my mechanical testing facility (my own home) for sh*ts and giggles to see the results. I am 33 years old and like everyone else have seen products and technology continually advance. I try to stay open minded of new products but in these cases would rather be a follower than a leader. It's often hard to try something new when you know the "old way" is proven to work (in most cases). Many may disagree but I would love to see the day when there is a pex type tubing refrigerant line to be used. For all I know it's been tried in the industry or is under development. That's my dream though a kink free line set

Originally Posted by benatwhodotnet

I've used it 3 times total, including the failure. The first two times within a month of acquiring the bottle. I have a photo from 3/27/2010 showing the bottle... even though the purpose of the photo was to document removal of the block fencing that restricted air flow to the unit.

Attachment 346221Attachment 346231

Note that the red bottle is visible on the pad. I have not used it since the failure over a year later on 9/6/2011. I prefer 15% silver sticks... always have, just tried something new.

Weve all bought some sorta snake oil and got bit....

Originally Posted by Snapperhead

Im just wondering if you would ever use it again ?

Theres no effing way I would glue any part of refrigeration.... now I have used Solder on suction lines ....

I've used it 3 times total, including the failure. The first two times within a month of acquiring the bottle. I have a photo from 3/27/2010 showing the bottle... even though the purpose of the photo was to document removal of the block fencing that restricted air flow to the unit.

Attachment 346221Attachment 346231

Note that the red bottle is visible on the pad. I have not used it since the failure over a year later on 9/6/2011. I prefer 15% silver sticks... always have, just tried something new.

my old boss used that stuff on a copper to aluminium coil connection. worked great.....that was last year.

there's a time and place for anything. heck, propress fittings were impossible 30 years ago...now they are standard. I like to hear about new things.....sometimes they work, sometimes not.....but if you don't try, you'll never know. pretty much all the technology we use every day was said to be impossible/snake oil at some point or another......

[QUOTE=Snapperhead;14981291]Oh I've only done it a couple times in situations where i didnt want to risk burning down a building , reg solder ..... shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh/QUOTE]

Keep a roll of stay bright in the truck.. Can handle all pressures just use very very light paste.

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