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temco has it right
Yeah school will be a great plus. The Business Agent at my local went through the same 2 year HVAC college program as me. I know for a fact that this alone put me toward the top of the list. I also know that I was top 3 after interviewing and testing.
[QUOTE=absrbrtek;2068937] Guess what, no one will recognize your certificate. Oh, except the recruiter that sold you on the trade school. Bet they promised you the world. HVAC Grad dont let anyone tell you that you have wasted your time in trade school.The union may not give you credit towards your apprenticeship but it sure is not a waste of time. If you took it serious (since you are paying for it yourself I assume you applied yourself) then you will see how beneficial it was in a few years. Dont know the school you went to and Im sure there are bad schools out there but I went to school in 83' after being in the trade as an installer for three years. 7 hours a day for 10 months. One of the best things I ever did. If Im going thru resumes for a new hire you can bet the one with trade school is not only going to be recognized but will be hard to beat. You will be fine. You have the initiative to go to school and come on hear and ask the right questions. Ive worked Union and non Union. Most important thing is the shop you work for. Is there people there that will give you good training? What area do you want to work in? Residential, commercial, Industrial. Do you want to be on call for emergency service, nites and weekends. Commercial and residential is fine to start out in but has its limits. Dont make the mistake of just taking the first job and then getting comfortable and staying there for 15 years. There are lots of opportunities in the industries in and out of the field. Meet lots of people, go to trade shows, seminars, etc. Good Luck.
Too many assumptions were made during my apprenticeship. I believe that argues for a standardized curriculum, but that is a topic for another discussion.
Originally Posted by jpsmith1cm Education. How can the union claim to have the best education when they never covered basic refrigeration? Charging charts and other charging methods? Manuals D and J? Those bases were covered in my neck of the woods.
I would agree that you definitely need to talk to people locally to find out what the pros and cons of each option are. My advice would be to check contractors and find one you would like to work for, then figure out how you can get a job there. I would generally advise against the residential market. I worked in residential for a few years before going into commercial/industrial service. The salary cap is much higher in the commercial field, union or not. Also, the work is much steadier.
What is the difference with working in a right to work state for a company who has some unionized techs yet you are not union?
Sheet Metal construction workers and supermarket refrigeration service techncians are 2 entirely different animals. No one could draw any comparisons about how our eyes see things different.
Originally Posted by jpsmith1cm While on the topic of the unions, I'd like to throw a few more pennies out for thought, here. Education. How can the union claim to have the best education when they never covered basic refrigeration? Charging charts and other charging methods? Manuals D and J? I'd never even heard of Manuals D or J until I came here. Still haven't seen either. Propaganda. I understand the whole "Do it right the first time" thing, but we just lost an apprentice who thought that he was gods little gift to us. He had about 6 years in, total, was in his 4th year. He thought that every non-union service guy was an idiot, no matter how good he was. He didn't have a card, so he was dumb. If we're going to say that we're the best, then we need to PROVE it, then say it, not the other way around. Maybe that's something you need to take up with your local. Not every one is run the same as yours. We, for one, have a GREAT school system in place. Apprentices are graduating with more and more skill....which is actually quite scary for me...lol. We have a lot of smart, motivated, young people in the area. Honestly, when was the last time you actually went to a union meeting (besides going to vote on your contractual raise)???? I'm guessing it's been a pretty long time, therefore you lose most of your rights to b**** IMO. If you want to make a change, this is not the place to complain to make things better.
Originally Posted by HVAC_Grad I feel like you, Dowadudda. I hate the idea of signing a contract, especially when I am at the beginning, where I have many, many options. The 'base' pay-scale thing also sounds like a turn off. I am obviously not one of the best at this point, but I can guaruntee I won't be one of the worst... I think I'm just going to look for a good non-union job to build a couple years of experience through, and then in the future if it seems like the best option, go after one of those pretty white tickets. Really.....I wouldn't take any advise from people on the internet who don't even live anywhere near me. The best thing for you do is to talk to people in your area.....both union and non-union. Each state, country, town, local, whatever is different. You need to get all of the FACTS and weight out the pros and cons for yourself.
While on the topic of the unions, I'd like to throw a few more pennies out for thought, here. Education. How can the union claim to have the best education when they never covered basic refrigeration? Charging charts and other charging methods? Manuals D and J? I'd never even heard of Manuals D or J until I came here. Still haven't seen either. Propaganda. I understand the whole "Do it right the first time" thing, but we just lost an apprentice who thought that he was gods little gift to us. He had about 6 years in, total, was in his 4th year. He thought that every non-union service guy was an idiot, no matter how good he was. He didn't have a card, so he was dumb. If we're going to say that we're the best, then we need to PROVE it, then say it, not the other way around.
As far as the base pay scale, apprentices get raises every 6 months. Those raises amount to an additional 5% of journeyman rate. It does add up quickly.
Originally Posted by Dowadudda so if you apprentice through the UA, you actually sign a contract tying you to the UA if you chose to leave? That is interesting. I never knew that. I am a white ticket, so I never went through any of that. Boy I tell you, that's a pretty sticky decision I'd have to make if they ever asked me to sign something like that. I feel like you, Dowadudda. I hate the idea of signing a contract, especially when I am at the beginning, where I have many, many options. The 'base' pay-scale thing also sounds like a turn off. I am obviously not one of the best at this point, but I can guaruntee I won't be one of the worst... I think I'm just going to look for a good non-union job to build a couple years of experience through, and then in the future if it seems like the best option, go after one of those pretty white tickets.
I see that in the fitters here. We are NOT fitters. Plenty of testosterone and competition floating around in service. Originally Posted by jpsmith1cm I feel that the unions encourage a group mentality and discourage competition between members. The idea that we all are the same. Welders are welders, service guys are service guys, etc.
Sorry, it has been 10 years since signing the agreement. The details are a little fuzzy. I was 22-23 at the time and had basically been told that the union was the be all, end all as far as employment was concerned. Signing the contract was not optional and I really didn't have time to ponder it. A big pile of papers were dropped in front of all of us and we went though, page by page, line by line and signed all of them. As I said, I am not entirely opposed to labor unions, just trying to present a different viewpoint. I feel that the unions encourage a group mentality and discourage competition between members. The idea that we all are the same. Welders are welders, service guys are service guys, etc. If you have been in the field long enough, you know that is untrue. There are great techs, good techs, and warm bodies to put on a call until you can get someone there to fix it. I also feel that unions encourage a distance between the contractor and the employee. There is also a socialist mentality that is brewing just under the surface of all labor unions, and I find that un-American. Personal opinion.
Originally Posted by Dowadudda so if you apprentice through the UA, you actually sign a contract tying you to the UA if you chose to leave? That is interesting. I never knew that. I am a white ticket, so I never went through any of that. Boy I tell you, that's a pretty sticky decision I'd have to make if they ever asked me to sign something like that. I don't believe in signing any sort of agreement about my employment. scholarship loan agreement.....to offset the cost of your apprentice schooling....it disapears a little each year and after 5 years ? its gone, and its only payable if you leave the union, its only fair the training costs alot of dough and they want to make sure you stay
so if you apprentice through the UA, you actually sign a contract tying you to the UA if you chose to leave? That is interesting. I never knew that. I am a white ticket, so I never went through any of that. Boy I tell you, that's a pretty sticky decision I'd have to make if they ever asked me to sign something like that. I don't believe in signing any sort of agreement about my employment.
I chose SMW and am very happy I got in. For me it was a no-brainer. I have a family. I could've worked non-union residential starting out at like $8-10/hr. but my family means more to me than that. I am a commercial/industrial service apprentice and have been doing it for only 6 months and already make over $15/hr plus bennies. Journeyman scale at my local is $30.35/hr plus bennies. The techs at the company I work for make $80,000/yr or more. I know money isn't everything but right now it's hard to find this type of opportunity in this economy.
It's funny how everybody gets so fired up about all of this. Where I live there are plenty of good union and non-union techs. Believe it or not some of the non-union guys make more than the union guys. They also sometimes get better benefits. That's not a rule, but it happens. I always say that I work for my customer. Have integrity, first! Give your customer what they are paying for.
Originally Posted by jpsmith1cm 5 years. Then you don't owe the whole $15k....lol. Look in your contract.
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