Post a reply to the thread: NATE.....yes or no...just vote.....that's all.....2 questions..
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Originally posted by hvacman05 Actually this wouldn't even be considered a poll. The questions need to be either open ended, or close ended. They are also leading questions that will more than likely get a "no" answer. Another bad part of the poll is the fact that the pollster asked and then answered the questions. It is thus an unfair and biased poll. [/B] Exccuuuuuuuuse me Mr. Gallup, So who gives a crap, it's my poll, you can start your own.
All polls are biased, how else could pollsters make money if they didn't lean to the left or right. This statement has a margin of error of +-3%
Originally posted by NormChris Dice, Dice, Dice! Your poll is faulty right from the start. You are "begging the question" a common logical mistake in polling questions. You have assumed in your first question that NATE is being "enforced" as you put it, whatever that means. So there are two problems with that question. 1. You are begging the question by assuming something to be fact when it is not. 2. The question is not clear. What is the meaning of the word "enforced"? As the pollster you can interpret the results of the answers to this question anyway you wish and then draw your own contrived "absolute" conclusions as you please. Those participating in this poll as it is currenly written are falling for a predetermined conclusion set up in the question itself. Norm Actually this wouldn't even be considered a poll. The questions need to be either open ended, or close ended. They are also leading questions that will more than likely get a "no" answer. Another bad part of the poll is the fact that the pollster asked and then answered the questions. It is thus an unfair and biased poll.
Originally posted by acmanko Whats fun about voting. And just for the record ,I spend my days on roofs, attics and around mosquito infested condensers. Wondering why oh why they won't work.
Whats fun about voting. And just for the record ,I spend my days on roofs, attics and around mosquito infested condensers.
BTW.....what happened to just voting?
And in the the right corner in the blue trunks we have...... Get off it Acmanco, I would place a LARGE chunk of cash on Dave knowing FAR more then you ever will. The guys that get out there and learn the hard way know much better than some kid in school. Those that have a degree and no experience are known as "educated idiots" and we don't hire 'em. I look more at experience. The last guy I hired used to fix power wheel chairs for a living so he knew about low voltage controls, he also hooked up oxygen machines-he understodd pressures, he worked on race cars as a hobby-he's machanically inclined, he's got a clean driving record, he's goal oriented, and he good to the customers. With a little training, he's the best tech I've hired in a long time, with NO school. I've had no real HVAC schooling and personally I don't feel I need to prove myself on a test that anyone with the ability to memorize a book can pass. I learned much like Dave, read what I can, bug the hell out of the old guys, and absorb everything I learned. Now, I have competitors calling for my troubleshooting assistance. Will education help, sure. I've taken some manufacturer classes a picked up some good information. However, book learning alone will NEVER be as good as hands-on. The best way, get some experience in the field so you know what things are and then take classes so you know what the teacher is talking about. There is no wrong way to learn as long as we are learning and there will always be more to learn. [Edited by i_got_ideas on 06-23-2004 at 03:32 AM]
Originally posted by acmanko Originally posted by condenseddave I just read every single piece of paper that could have been even remotely trade related until I figured out WHERE and WHY, bugged the living hell out of the older guys until they told HOW and WHEN, and knew WHO to call when I couldn't get it. Actually, our resident drunken pedophile seems to think that I have issues with reading comprehension, but that's really only because of his own insecurities and dementia. I am actually a voracious reader, always have been. The only "formal classroom" training that I had was so boring I stopped going. I'd already been through their text, and knew more than the instructor, I'm certain. My questions went unanswered, as this individual could not, or was unwilling to, learn the answers himself. Not one single tech out of that class could've passed the NATE test based on what they had learned there, I'm sure. My hands-on skills were there, for the most part, prior to my getting involved in the trade. I learned things such as welding, sheetmetal layout, commercial wiring, pipefitting, etc. as the need arose. My "book learning" is entirely through self-study. My troubleshooting ability comes from being a pain in the ass of every single tech I ran across in my first three years, give or take... Mainly, I like to do what I do. I enjoy finishing even more, and I found that the more I learned, the faster I was finished, and the earlier the tee time. I still vote no on NATE, and most likely always will, for the infamous reasons I have given, but I don't really care if someone else wants it. Hey, HTF did I get dragged back into this, anyway? I was trying to be nice. wow , wonderfully stated, but who where you refering to. btw, when you state that you know more then someone in a position to teach it only proves your ignorance. Anyone who was sober, and not thinking of little boys, would not have taken a sentence fragment out of context to make an utterly ridiculous and pointless comment. You maintain your deviant status quo as always.
Sorry, but you still failed, should be an l in there
It's OK, if I don't demean James' sister , she'll think I like her.
Originally posted by condenseddave I just read every single piece of paper that could have been even remotely trade related until I figured out WHERE and WHY, bugged the living hell out of the older guys until they told HOW and WHEN, and knew WHO to call when I couldn't get it. Actually, our resident drunken pedophile seems to think that I have issues with reading comprehension, but that's really only because of his own insecurities and dementia. I am actually a voracious reader, always have been. The only "formal classroom" training that I had was so boring I stopped going. I'd already been through their text, and knew more than the instructor, I'm certain. My questions went unanswered, as this individual could not, or was unwilling to, learn the answers himself. Not one single tech out of that class could've passed the NATE test based on what they had learned there, I'm sure. My hands-on skills were there, for the most part, prior to my getting involved in the trade. I learned things such as welding, sheetmetal layout, commercial wiring, pipefitting, etc. as the need arose. My "book learning" is entirely through self-study. My troubleshooting ability comes from being a pain in the ass of every single tech I ran across in my first three years, give or take... Mainly, I like to do what I do. I enjoy finishing even more, and I found that the more I learned, the faster I was finished, and the earlier the tee time. I still vote no on NATE, and most likely always will, for the infamous reasons I have given, but I don't really care if someone else wants it. Hey, HTF did I get dragged back into this, anyway? I was trying to be nice. wow , wonderfully stated, but who where you refering to. btw, when you state that you know more then someone in a position to teach it only proves your ignorance.
I just read every single piece of paper that could have been even remotely trade related until I figured out WHERE and WHY, bugged the living hell out of the older guys until they told HOW and WHEN, and knew WHO to call when I couldn't get it. Actually, our resident drunken pedophile seems to think that I have issues with reading comprehension, but that's really only because of his own insecurities and dementia. I am actually a voracious reader, always have been. The only "formal classroom" training that I had was so boring I stopped going. I'd already been through their text, and knew more than the instructor, I'm certain. My questions went unanswered, as this individual could not, or was unwilling to, learn the answers himself. Not one single tech out of that class could've passed the NATE test based on what they had learned there, I'm sure. My hands-on skills were there, for the most part, prior to my getting involved in the trade. I learned things such as welding, sheetmetal layout, commercial wiring, pipefitting, etc. as the need arose. My "book learning" is entirely through self-study. My troubleshooting ability comes from being a pain in the ass of every single tech I ran across in my first three years, give or take... Mainly, I like to do what I do. I enjoy finishing even more, and I found that the more I learned, the faster I was finished, and the earlier the tee time. I still vote no on NATE, and most likely always will, for the infamous reasons I have given, but I don't really care if someone else wants it. Hey, HTF did I get dragged back into this, anyway? I was trying to be nice.
Originally posted by Andy Schoen Originally posted by condenseddave Originally posted by Andy Schoen C'mon condenseddave, where are you? You haven't argued about NATE certification for perhaps 2 months now. You're overdue... I'd be curious about your apprenticeship... I've had internet connection problems. What do you want to know? I was given the keys to a '69 Ford, A copy of Modern Refrig, and a list of phone numbers... The self-study approach... Surely you had a mentor, as did Telemachus. [Edited by Andy Schoen on 06-20-2004 at 05:04 PM] Sure did. Worked for the guy for over a decade. He's the one that gave me the book and the truck keys, and the list of phone numbers... And I think telemarketers should be shot.
"Surely you had a mentor, as did Telemachus." What's the telephone company got to do with this?
Originally posted by condenseddave Originally posted by Andy Schoen C'mon condenseddave, where are you? You haven't argued about NATE certification for perhaps 2 months now. You're overdue... I'd be curious about your apprenticeship... I've had internet connection problems. What do you want to know? I was given the keys to a '69 Ford, A copy of Modern Refrig, and a list of phone numbers... The self-study approach... Surely you had a mentor, as did Telemachus. [Edited by Andy Schoen on 06-20-2004 at 05:04 PM]
Originally posted by condenseddave Originally posted by acmanko Originally posted by NormChris Condensedave is busy reading up so he can take the NATE exams. Reading won't help With an attitude like that, you're never going to be more than a functional illiterate, which fits into your drunken pedophile lifestyle quite nicely. Reading won't help unless you understand what you read,which you don't.
Originally posted by acmanko Originally posted by NormChris Condensedave is busy reading up so he can take the NATE exams. Reading won't help With an attitude like that, you're never going to be more than a functional illiterate, which fits into your drunken pedophile lifestyle quite nicely.
Originally posted by Andy Schoen C'mon condenseddave, where are you? You haven't argued about NATE certification for perhaps 2 months now. You're overdue... I'd be curious about your apprenticeship... I've had internet connection problems. What do you want to know? I was given the keys to a '69 Ford, A copy of Modern Refrig, and a list of phone numbers...
Originally posted by NormChris Condensedave is busy reading up so he can take the NATE exams. Reading won't help
Hey Andy! Thanks for the definition! JMM
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