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On X series units the exv is supposed to be 40-60% open at full load

your advice was very valuable . How can we know if the Scavenger plate is doing it's job correctly ?
I am having low Discharge superheat issue ..even in ambient temp of 100 F + . What could be the cause ?

Originally Posted by rscamaro

There are always reasons to carry more than 1 service manual. That manual that the link showed was pretty old, as it was made for a unit with an HSIO control. 95% of the time or better you are going to have a navigator connected to the MBB. Different EXV's (1,500 vs. 15,000 steps) codes, options, parameters, etc. Quite a few upgrades from when they made that 1997 vintage IOM.

...Ron

Very true. The IOM in question, I have, is in an HX machine 1998 model. It's the original manual shipped with machine so I will use it occasionally. I have 4 HX machines at that site. 2 are newer machines with navigators but 2 are salty old dogs with vintage controls and components.

Originally Posted by Tommy knocker

Àlways? So the comfort link version applies to the ecologic machines? What if your not that guy who carries 5 different versions of the same manual. Btw why do you have 5 versions if only the latest applies? Anyway what if you don't carry all those manuals but there is one in the machine? Do you toss it? I understand you not being comfortable with the procedure and that's fine. But you 2 jumped on me like a rat on a cheetoe because you are not comfortable with it. Even though as I said it was a carrier procedure. I never questioned your technique or ability or professionalism until mine was. So do it your way I'll do it mine, truth be told 99% of the time we do things exactly the same. But I was right whether you like it or not. Have a nice day.

There are always reasons to carry more than 1 service manual. That manual that the link showed was pretty old, as it was made for a unit with an HSIO control. 95% of the time or better you are going to have a navigator connected to the MBB. Different EXV's (1,500 vs. 15,000 steps) codes, options, parameters, etc. Quite a few upgrades from when they made that 1997 vintage IOM.

...Ron

Originally Posted by Dallas Duster

Believe it or not this is an open forum. In my opinion it is not wise to put jump out oil level switch so that a building owners and inexperienced techs/regular guests can see them. This thread probably should have been in the prof section anyway. What was your first option by the way? I could have sworn it was your option but i am too lazy to read thru all these pages.

Never said what my first option would be. Every situation is different. I simply agreed with Freightshaker and tried to explain why. If there is no oil on the ground and maybe the lower glass shows oil I would attempt the pump down a couple times first, time permitting, then possibly jump it and run it up while monitoring. No oil visible maybe grab the recovery machine, time permitting. I say time permitting because almost all of the machines I take care of are process and 1 hour of production is worth 10 compressors to my customers. Every case is different and we all deal with what we have.

Originally Posted by Tommy knocker

Agreed. It is a better way. See we actually agree. Like you I believe in options. Old or outdated as the jumping of switch may be it is an option. Not my first or even the best but an option none the less. I believe that was the point Freightshaker was making originally. As was I.

Believe it or not this is an open forum. In my opinion it is not wise to put jump out oil level switch so that a building owners and inexperienced techs/regular guests can see them. This thread probably should have been in the prof section anyway. What was your first option by the way? I could have sworn it was your option but i am too lazy to read thru all these pages.

Originally Posted by Dallas Duster

I didn't say I wasn't a hypocrite. Yep you were right carrier did print that back in 1997 when they introduced that chiller , wow. I have done the factory approved method before and found a better way in my opinion . It's a way better way than ever jumping out a level switch.

Agreed. It is a better way. See we actually agree. Like you I believe in options. Old or outdated as the jumping of switch may be it is an option. Not my first or even the best but an option none the less. I believe that was the point Freightshaker was making originally. As was I.

Originally Posted by Tommy knocker

Since I have yet to be proven wrong, despite your best efforts, I'd say my claim to fame, at least in this thread, is being right. The procedure I referenced is in print in a carrier 30GX/HX manual the procedure you referenced is not. You scolded Freightshaker for not following factory procedure yet you recommended a non factory recommended procedure. It's not your procedure that bothers me its your hypocrisy.

I didn't say I wasn't a hypocrite. Yep you were right carrier did print that back in 1997 when they introduced that chiller , wow. I have done the factory approved method before and found a better way in my opinion . It's a way better way than ever jumping out a level switch.

Originally Posted by Dallas Duster

I'll stop being stubborn when your claim to fame is using a procedure from a book from 1997 that has obsoleted instructions in it to work on these chiller made in this century.

Since I have yet to be proven wrong, despite your best efforts, I'd say my claim to fame, at least in this thread, is being right. The procedure I referenced is in print in a carrier 30GX/HX manual the procedure you referenced is not. You scolded Freightshaker for not following factory procedure yet you recommended a non factory recommended procedure. It's not your procedure that bothers me its your hypocrisy.

At least stubborn on this thread.

Originally Posted by Tommy knocker

Now who's being stubborn? I like the recovery machine method, as I already said. My point is you didn't get it from the manual and yet it works. As we have already established neither method starts a comp with a dry seperator. Since ther recovery machine method is NOT in the manual please refer to your reply to Freightshaker about not following factory procedures.

I'll stop being stubborn when your claim to fame is using a procedure from a book from 1997 that has obsoleted instructions in it to work on these chiller made in this century.

Originally Posted by Dallas Duster

As a matter of fact I have been talking to some Carrier engineers about the method. At least with my method I am not starting a screw compressor with a bone dry oil sump.

Now who's being stubborn? I like the recovery machine method, as I already said. My point is you didn't get it from the manual and yet it works. As we have already established neither method starts a comp with a dry seperator. Since ther recovery machine method is NOT in the manual please refer to your reply to Freightshaker about not following factory procedures.

I learned something from this thread anyways! , now you guys go have a beer! stan

Originally Posted by Tommy knocker

What manual was your recovery machine trick in agin?

As a matter of fact I have been talking to some Carrier engineers about the method. At least with my method I am not starting a screw compressor with a bone dry oil sump.

Originally Posted by Dallas Duster

See you are just stubborn I guess. Could that name be Tommy knocker????? I wouldn't doubt it.

Hell I'm afraid if we had it your way they might as well not even worry about shipping a manual with the equipment so you might as well throw all yours away and just do it the Tommy Boy way.

What manual was your recovery machine trick in agin?

Originally Posted by Tommy knocker

Very well. So the engineers were wrong but the manuals the wright are the gospel. Got it. Don't think right. Just do what the book says. So you can CYA I suppose. Where I come from we have a name for that. It's not tech.

See you are just stubborn I guess. Could that name be Tommy knocker????? I wouldn't doubt it.

Hell I'm afraid if we had it your way they might as well not even worry about shipping a manual with the equipment so you might as well throw all yours away and just do it the Tommy Boy way.

Originally Posted by R123

Man you just won't let it go. You must have some severe anger management problems. YOU we're the first one to question my technique And YOU were the first one to start the insulting and condescending posts. And as far as the comfort link version verses the ecological version, that was just 1 catalog number I posted. If you want to get technical, catalog no. 533-092 dated 3/99 and catalog no. 533-095 dated 9/99 say the same thing. The bottom line is yes, the early manual says to do it but obviously the engineers at Carrier found out later that they were wrong. They made it a point to change that procedure because they issued a warning later not to do it and changed the IOM. And as far as me keeping all my manuals, that's my business, not yours. I make it a point to keep up with the latest manuals and service bulletins for reasons like this. As an OEM tech (for Trane) we are required to know all the latest service bulletins and procedures and occasionally they contradict what's written in earlier versions due to new issues the engineers discover. At my office there is strong emphasis on following the latest procedures. I make it a point to do the same with other brands. Now I'm done talking with you and you have a nice day.

Very well. So the engineers were wrong but the manuals the wright are the gospel. Got it. Don't think right. Just do what the book says. So you can CYA I suppose. Where I come from we have a name for that. It's not tech.

Originally Posted by Tommy knocker

Àlways? So the comfort link version applies to the ecologic machines? What if your not that guy who carries 5 different versions of the same manual. Btw why do you have 5 versions if only the latest applies? Anyway what if you don't carry all those manuals but there is one in the machine? Do you toss it? I understand you not being comfortable with the procedure and that's fine. But you 2 jumped on me like a rat on a cheetoe because you are not comfortable with it. Even though as I said it was a carrier procedure. I never questioned your technique or ability or professionalism until mine was. So do it your way I'll do it mine, truth be told 99% of the time we do things exactly the same. But I was right whether you like it or not. Have a nice day.

Man you just won't let it go. You must have some severe anger management problems. YOU we're the first one to question my technique And YOU were the first one to start the insulting and condescending posts. And as far as the comfort link version verses the ecological version, that was just 1 catalog number I posted. If you want to get technical, catalog no. 533-092 dated 3/99 and catalog no. 533-095 dated 9/99 say the same thing. The bottom line is yes, the early manual says to do it but obviously the engineers at Carrier found out later that they were wrong. They made it a point to change that procedure because they issued a warning later not to do it and changed the IOM. And as far as me keeping all my manuals, that's my business, not yours. I make it a point to keep up with the latest manuals and service bulletins for reasons like this. As an OEM tech (for Trane) we are required to know all the latest service bulletins and procedures and occasionally they contradict what's written in earlier versions due to new issues the engineers discover. At my office there is strong emphasis on following the latest procedures. I make it a point to do the same with other brands. Now I'm done talking with you and you have a nice day.

Originally Posted by R123

No I won't apologize because all along I said you very well may have it and I'm interested in seeing it. And, the later versions always apply.

And talking about insulting and condescending???? I guess you forgot about what you just said to Dallas Duster a little while ago.

Àlways? So the comfort link version applies to the ecologic machines? What if your not that guy who carries 5 different versions of the same manual. Btw why do you have 5 versions if only the latest applies? Anyway what if you don't carry all those manuals but there is one in the machine? Do you toss it? I understand you not being comfortable with the procedure and that's fine. But you 2 jumped on me like a rat on a cheetoe because you are not comfortable with it. Even though as I said it was a carrier procedure. I never questioned your technique or ability or professionalism until mine was. So do it your way I'll do it mine, truth be told 99% of the time we do things exactly the same. But I was right whether you like it or not. Have a nice day.

Originally Posted by R123

No I won't apologize because all along I said you very well may have it and I'm interested in seeing it. And, the later versions always apply.

And talking about insulting and condescending???? I guess you forgot about what you just said to Dallas Duster a little while ago.

That's ok R123 I am king now I guess. Yeah for me!!!