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Link to episode

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032600/#48739679

Hopefully the link works. Otherwise, go to NBC's website and find/click Dateline at the bottom of the page under current shows. The current clips have part 1 and part 2.

I like the guy that says the system is leaking combustible fluid.

I also like how they show the "certified" experts washing the coil backwards.

Oops. This link takes you to part 2. But on the left side of the page next to the video window you will see part 1.

Originally Posted by Random

I went behind one of the large companies in our area on a water heater, no heat call. I put a new pilot assembly on it for the cost of the part and an hour's labor. On the way out the door, the customer told me what the large company wanted to fix: new gas valve, pilot and burner at a cost that was DOUBLE what my company would charge to completely replace the whole water heater.

" I put a new pilot assembly on it for the cost of the part and an hour's labor."

Sorry but it seems ridiculous to me to sell, obtain, install and warranty a part for wholesale when you are a contractor. You sell parts for retail, not wholesale cost!

I do not know or support anything the other company did! But you are not doing yourself or the trade any favors either. Alot of guys start out around here doing that same stuff, they don't normally last long. We always seem to end up with their customers after they go out of buisness or go work somewhere else. Those same customers gladly pay us more because they know we will be there to answer the phone and honor their warranty, just like we have for over 60 yrs.

Do you install waterheaters for wholesale cost also? What about furnaces or ac's? Where is your mark up for dealing with warranty not covered by the manufacterur down the road? Where is your profit? Etc, etc....

Originally Posted by Carbon

I am beginning to wonder though. Did an install last year, 5 ton package. Didn't get the service contract as the owners high school buddy has a very large service company. One of his techs tells the owner he has a leak and there is "excessive" oil in the unit. Quote is $2600 to leak check, fixing the leak was extra.
Owner relizes he still has a waranty with us. We go down, pressures are perfect and "excessive" oil was from when we attached the low ambient to the schrader valve. I never would have beleived this guy would run this type of operation. He has over 100 techs. Not a small fly by night.

I went behind one of the large companies in our area on a water heater, no heat call. I put a new pilot assembly on it for the cost of the part and an hour's labor. On the way out the door, the customer told me what the large company wanted to fix: new gas valve, pilot and burner at a cost that was DOUBLE what my company would charge to completely replace the whole water heater.

There is no interest in the news show putting up footage of good HVAC work. I am not going to defend crooks, but I think we should also note that the news company is setting up for taping in hopes of getting hacks on film. They need to be considered crooked themselves for purposefully creating a "Hack trap". It is no different in any expose; i just don't like the industry getting unfairly characterized with video editing and purposeful hiring of multiple hacks and a few good guys.

I know of a tech recently who informed the client their compressor was shot so it needed to be replaced for of course 'a lot of money', as you can imagine. She didn't trust him, called in company 'B' who fixed the problem for a little more than a routine service charge. Now, in reviewing the paperwork for this company, I did not see a single reading, test, mention of burnout or oil--nothing. No evidence to support or substantiate his claim. This used to be a long time customer who now is calling company 'A' crooked as you can imagine. I'm sure they are also bad mouthing company 'A' all over town and may even report them to the BBB, Angie or Ralph Nader.

Now, my question for company 'A' is why don't they have a rigidly enforced SOP that includes a checklist with readings and tests? When they make the recommendation to a client for repair/ replacement, where is the supporting evidence documented? None. And they are amazed people talk trash about them?

When you tell someone their charge is low and you need to add refrigerant, do you document on their copy of the paperwork what the readings were you based your opinion on? If no, why not? If you are honest, why not record those readings to, (a) document what the conditions were on the day and time of your service call and (b), provide a reference for the next service so they can see the amount of change, if any? The medical profession learned early on to do this, which is why doctors always want to compare your chest X-ray, EKGs, labs, etc. with older tests to see what has changed. It's not always just the raw numbers but trends that are important.

If you record readings, it does not make you bulletproof against hack allegations because unscrupulous techs falsify readings all the time. However, when someone comes behind techs on a random basis conducting postview inspects and interviews with the client right after your tech left, you can quickly spot the cheats and acknowledge the ringers. That way should a charge of impropriety arise, you have a strong case to back you up with such a program. This is how you take the 'K' out of Kuwality and put back the 'Q'.

Originally Posted by BaldLoonie

Was there anything on the show more than they showed a couple months ago?

We're finding the crooks in big & little, locally owned & nationals. One locally owned has even stooped to sabotage. Moved the common wire off common on a PC8900 system and told her she needed to spend a bundle on a new control. Moved a wire on the contactor for the little comp of an extended warranty covered XL1800. Told them needed to replace. Our salesman suggested a 2nd opinion. I moved 1 wire 1 spade terminal over and that little orange thing roared to life. Then there's their tech who told a lady her boiler had a crack in the heat exchanger and CO was pouring into the house, gonna kill them. Our tech who isn't a good boiler man went over. Calls me: you know I'm not too sharp on this but wouldn't WATER be pouring out? Duh!

It was a slightly expanded version of the original show. I think they added a response from one company saying their tech was suspended. One company said their tech should have explained the difference between a recommendation and an immediate need. One company did not bother to respond. They showed they cleaned the od coil app a week prior and one company said it needed a coil cleaning. I also think they showed more views of the trucks.

Anyone notice the good tech that pushed in the disconnect and didn't charge anything?

Originally Posted by Carbon

I am beginning to wonder though. Did an install last year, 5 ton package. Didn't get the service contract as the owners high school buddy has a very large service company. One of his techs tells the owner he has a leak and there is "excessive" oil in the unit. Quote is $2600 to leak check, fixing the leak was extra.
Owner relizes he still has a waranty with us. We go down, pressures are perfect and "excessive" oil was from when we attached the low ambient to the schrader valve. I never would have beleived this guy would run this type of operation. He has over 100 techs. Not a small fly by night.

Originally Posted by OldSchoolMech

I find the bigger the company the more crooked they are. Someone has to pay for all that over head. I can't even count how many times my company has come behind a Big HVAC company that told he customer BIG$ and we find a bad Run,cap or loose wire. My favorite is when they say the unit is shot need a whole new one then we get it going for $$$ instead $$$$. We like to keep the customers calling back not make big $ and run

where bigger companies get in trouble is when they change their business model to a commission base for their service tech's. They can reduce payroll (reduce wages) but the service tech actually makes more money.

Every time a service tech sells a part, they get a "piece of the ticket". The problem for the service tech becomes the Moral dilemma. Does the service tech need to make a Car payment? Can he "bone" the customer for more money for any particular part, to "pad" the ticket?

The company assumes the tech will do the right thing and only charge for a proper repair and not "make stuff up"

This is where the rest of us come along and say "what a crap job the big guys did"

Was there anything on the show more than they showed a couple months ago?

We're finding the crooks in big & little, locally owned & nationals. One locally owned has even stooped to sabotage. Moved the common wire off common on a PC8900 system and told her she needed to spend a bundle on a new control. Moved a wire on the contactor for the little comp of an extended warranty covered XL1800. Told them needed to replace. Our salesman suggested a 2nd opinion. I moved 1 wire 1 spade terminal over and that little orange thing roared to life. Then there's their tech who told a lady her boiler had a crack in the heat exchanger and CO was pouring into the house, gonna kill them. Our tech who isn't a good boiler man went over. Calls me: you know I'm not too sharp on this but wouldn't WATER be pouring out? Duh!

Originally Posted by Carbon

I am beginning to wonder though. Did an install last year, 5 ton package. Didn't get the service contract as the owners high school buddy has a very large service company. One of his techs tells the owner he has a leak and there is "excessive" oil in the unit. Quote is $2600 to leak check, fixing the leak was extra.
Owner relizes he still has a waranty with us. We go down, pressures are perfect and "excessive" oil was from when we attached the low ambient to the schrader valve. I never would have beleived this guy would run this type of operation. He has over 100 techs. Not a small fly by night.

I find the bigger the company the more crooked they are. Someone has to pay for all that over head. I can't even count how many times my company has come behind a Big HVAC company that told he customer BIG$ and we find a bad Run,cap or loose wire. My favorite is when they say the unit is shot need a whole new one then we get it going for $$$ instead $$$$. We like to keep the customers calling back not make big $ and run

I am beginning to wonder though. Did an install last year, 5 ton package. Didn't get the service contract as the owners high school buddy has a very large service company. One of his techs tells the owner he has a leak and there is "excessive" oil in the unit. Quote is $2600 to leak check, fixing the leak was extra.
Owner relizes he still has a waranty with us. We go down, pressures are perfect and "excessive" oil was from when we attached the low ambient to the schrader valve. I never would have beleived this guy would run this type of operation. He has over 100 techs. Not a small fly by night.

Apparently all of the contractors selected for the first segment had received an F from the BBB. There was an article in The News about it with the ACCA members who were present during the making of the expose. So Date Line really had no interest in anything but making the HVAC field look bad. At the same time it is an opportunity to emphisize the importance of selecting a good contractor but it still stings.

Originally Posted by cobitech

I agree with six . This is a good thing that they are doing.
identifying these crooks trying to rip off people. What if these people were your family members that were being treated like this? What a shame.

well to begin with any repair to any of my families equipment will go through me. I have family in about 10 different states, and they all call me.......imagine that?

The only ones that get the 400 mile service call discount are my parents LOL

I agree with six . This is a good thing that they are doing.
identifying these crooks trying to rip off people. What if these people were your family members that were being treated like this? What a shame.

They need to run as many sting operations as needed to weed out the hacks and criminals out of the bussiness.

One large company in Houston (JM) cant hire legitimate techs so now they've moved on to hiring West African Nationals on work visas to run "service calls".

Who has a link to the piece. I would really enjoy watching but alas I missed it.

They ought to investigate ABC News. Plenty of hacks over there.

Its on at 8PM in Arizona. As I understand its an expanded version of there last broadcast.

Doesn't NBC have any more trucks to blow up?

Great, Dateline is at it again

Tonight at 7pm, Dateline will be exposing the the hacks once again.

The guide doesn't say where they were this time?