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Good to hear you have found a solution. Second hand smoke SUCKS, just like the smokers suckin their cigs.

another update...

Originally Posted by dannyp19

Just what we need more litigation and more nannie state intrusion. Last I checked you are allowed to smoke in your home.

Actually, I've done some research. Constitutionally, there is no such thing as a 'right to smoke'...even in your own home. The courts have backed this up in a variety of ways. In some cases, people have lost custody of kids, solely because they smoke, condo boards and apartment owners can immediately and retroactively set a building-wide no smoking policy which the law has upheld, etc. I'm not trying to make my neighbors stop smoking....just stop their air from infiltrating my space.

The way I see it (and the way the condo board of my building is approaching it), a person has as much right to smoke in their home as they do to blast music at 12 am. It's common courtesy. You can smoke, play music, do anything you want, but don't disrupt the neighbors.


As an update, I can actually say that the situation is vastly improved in the past few days. It's not perfect, but the neighbors are being very cooperative and had been looking into an exhaust fan and an air purifier. I haven't had a chance to check in on the specifics, but something that they did recently has made a big difference. It's not 100% yet and I still get wafts of smoke here and there, but I no longer feel like I'm walking into a smoking lounge when I come home.

I currently have a honeywell HEPA purifier with af flimsy carbon pre-filter that I had purchased a year or so ago for allergies. I know there are much better models out there for smoke, but at the moment they are cost-prohibitive for me. And, hopefully, they won't be needed.

thanks again for all the advice. it greatly helped my sanity over the past month or so.

Originally Posted by kangaroogod

Perhaps a erv would be beneficial? Instead of ducting 100% of the exhaust outdoors a portion (say 50%) would be exhausted and the other 50% would be dumped into the home. For example bringing in 150 cfm of air and exhausting 75. This would pressurize the building as TB suggested and allow the removal of additional pollutants. This will do so in a more economical way.

Better to find out how much make-up air is required to is needed to overcome the movement of smoke into the condo.
Also exhausting some air from the smokers condo would help. Most smokers understand the need to assist in control of smoke. Its worth the conversation. Exhausting 100 cfm from the offending condo and 100 cfm of fresh make-up would change the world. You may find much less ventilation is require. Positive pressure is the key, not ventilating after the smoke as entered the space.
Regards TB

Originally Posted by dannyp19

Just what we need more litigation and more nannie state intrusion. Last I checked you are allowed to smoke in your home.

Why not just make smoking illegal. It's worked wonders with drugs and I still can't believe they let alcohol be legal again.

If you live in a condo you should be held liable for second hand smoke.

You mention that you have an air cleaner, but is it an air cleaner designed for smoke? If you just have a hepa air cleaner, I don't think it would do much for smoke. If you have the money, there are air cleaners specifically designed for smoke/chemicals/vocs, etc. A good example is the Airpura T600 which is specifically designed for smoke/tar and has a 26lb carbon filter. Unfortunately, it costs almost $900, so not sure if that is an option. There are other high end brands too. If you can afford it, I would run this in your living space during the day and bedroom at night. Obviously, it is better to eliminate the source than try to clean the air but it doesn't sound like you can completely do this. The idea of a window fan for positive pressure seems like a good and economical idea. An HRV air exchanger might also be good idea if you have a place to install it.

Perhaps a erv would be beneficial? Instead of ducting 100% of the exhaust outdoors a portion (say 50%) would be exhausted and the other 50% would be dumped into the home. For example bringing in 150 cfm of air and exhausting 75. This would pressurize the building as TB suggested and allow the removal of additional pollutants. This will do so in a more economical way.

Originally Posted by toocoolforschool

It's a crying shame when one has to breath the exhaust from someones cancer sticks and have no recourse to hold smokers liable.

Just what we need more litigation and more nannie state intrusion. Last I checked you are allowed to smoke in your home.

Why not just make smoking illegal. It's worked wonders with drugs and I still can't believe they let alcohol be legal again.

It's a crying shame when one has to breath the exhaust from someones cancer sticks and have no recourse to hold smokers liable.

Originally Posted by orangeena

I 've been keeping a window in there open a crack with a mini fan running to blow air in. It seems to be helping quite a bit with the air that had been blowing out the intake vents when the furnace isn't running. So, thank you for that advice.

Now for my secondary question. When the furnace does run, it is still blowing out smelly air. Filtered, but smelly nonetheless. Right now I'm using a filtrete odor reduction 1" filter. It might help a little bit, but not enough, plus I'm concerned about air flow. more info here.

I want to upgrade to a better filter 4" or some type of air cleaner on my furnace, but until that's financially feasible, what's the best 1" filter you can recommend? I don't care if I have to buy through a contractor, online, whatever. The only caveat is that it must be a cardboard frame. The way my furnace is situated, I dont' have enough clearance in front and have to bend the filter slightly to get it in. (another issue to be fixed down the road.)

Any suggestions on highest merv I should use, better brands for airflow, etc? I know there are a million considerations that are normally taken into account, but generally speaking.... thoughts?

thanks again...

Sounds like the negative pressure in your air handler's return ducts is sucking nieghbors air into your space. Difficult to filter this. You would need a deep carbon bed on a merv 14 air filter. This may not be possible. Moving would work best.
Also caution, limit the amount of fresh air being brought in during high outdoor dew points. An air change in 4-5 hours minimum amount of fresh air needed to purge indoor pollutants.
Keep us posted.

I wanted to post a followup to my first message and let everyone know the status. I've also got another question.

I got a quote for install a fan to blow in fresh air. It will go in my small bedroom...which is right above my neighbor's 'designated smoking room.' In the meantime, while home, I've been keeping a window in there open a crack with a mini fan running to blow air in. It seems to be helping quite a bit with the air that had been blowing out the intake vents when the furnace isn't running. So, thank you for that advice.

Now for my secondary question. When the furnace does run, it is still blowing out smelly air. Filtered, but smelly nonetheless. Right now I'm using a filtrete odor reduction 1" filter. It might help a little bit, but not enough, plus I'm concerned about air flow. more info here.

I want to upgrade to a better filter 4" or some type of air cleaner on my furnace, but until that's financially feasible, what's the best 1" filter you can recommend? I don't care if I have to buy through a contractor, online, whatever. The only caveat is that it must be a cardboard frame. The way my furnace is situated, I dont' have enough clearance in front and have to bend the filter slightly to get it in. (another issue to be fixed down the road.)

Any suggestions on highest merv I should use, better brands for airflow, etc? I know there are a million considerations that are normally taken into account, but generally speaking.... thoughts?

thanks again...

Originally Posted by orangeena

Any other suggestions? Ideally, the ducts would be repaired, but sealing up my return ducts would require tearing apart the downstairs neighbor's ceiling (I have concrete floors) and I'm not paying for that expense...and it will be a heck of a battle to get the smokers to pay.

Everyone else is correct with slightly pressurizing the space, but if part of your return is their space and it's not sealed very well, your ALWAYS going be bringing in THEIR air. If your furnace/AHU is physically in your space, I would personally cap off the ducted return and make the return at the unit, if possible. I know it's not ideal to do that, but in your situation it doesn't sound like you have much choice in the matter.

Originally Posted by teddy bear

The key is to limit the amount of fresh air to just enough to pressurize the space. 60-70 cfm 24/7 will not raise your heating cost vary much. Maybe $1 per day max.
Keep us posted. What is your climate?
Regards TB

I live in the northeast...20-30 degrees right now. But the extra cost will be worth it!

Originally Posted by orangeena

Teddy Bear, thanks for the advice. I'm definitely going to look into a window fan and see if it will be enough to keep the pressure up. I'm sure my furnace will run more with the cold air blowing in, but I'd rather have a higher gas bill than keep breathing my neighbor's toxic air.

The key is to limit the amount of fresh air to just enough to pressurize the space. 60-70 cfm 24/7 will not raise your heating cost vary much. Maybe $1 per day max.
Keep us posted. What is your climate?
Regards TB

Teddy Bear, thanks for the advice. I'm definitely going to look into a window fan and see if it will be enough to keep the pressure up. I'm sure my furnace will run more with the cold air blowing in, but I'd rather have a higher gas bill than keep breathing my neighbor's toxic air.

You need to pressurize your apartment so the VOCs don't infiltrate your space.

actually running your fan continuosly will lower your bill and provide constant filtration, and its better for the motor then starting and stopping all the time

Teddy bear hits it on the head...Prepare to spend a lot of money. Regardless how many air filters, air cleaners you have. Keeping your space in a positive pressure is the only way, you will have to become a clean room. So equipment will be needed and your operating cost will rise. Good luck.

Originally Posted by orangeena

I live in an apartment style condo that is approximately 60 years old. A month ago smokers moved in directly downstairs from me. The smell is horrible, so much so, that a friend came over last weekend and asked if I had started smoking! I already have an air purifier that runs on high 24/7 and I think it helps, but not nearly enough.

Our condos have separate HVAC units, but their air is making it into my ducts anyway. I noticed the smell was blowing into my home via the heat vents. I upgraded my filter to a 1500 merv and the smell is still there, but it's it's a little better.

I also realized that the smell was coming in through the intake vents when the system wasn't running. The air blowing in the intake is horrible...like sitting directly next to a smoker. So, I started running the fan 24/7 just to keep the place pushing air OUT the intake vents, instead of into my unit. Even though that blows air in, at least it's filtered air, not direct, second hand smoke.

Two questions:
- I keep hearing that the higher MERV filters are not good for the furnace. I'd like to go higher to eradicate as much of the smell as possible, but would that damage my system?
- What is the risk of running the fan all the time (aside from a higher electric bill?)

Any other suggestions? Ideally, the ducts would be repaired, but sealing up my return ducts would require tearing apart the downstairs neighbor's ceiling (I have concrete floors) and I'm not paying for that expense...and it will be a heck of a battle to get the smokers to pay.

Your problem is an opportunity for us to practice the art of pollution control.
During cold weather, the stack effect moves low warm air in the stack up through the structure out of the roof. Fresh air enters the low leaks and exits the top of the building.
High merv filters are unable to remove gases in the air to cause odors/pollutants in the air. Your nose and lungs are much more sensitive than any filters ablillity to totally cleanse the air.
The concrete floor between the condos will stop some of the air movement. To slow/stop the air movement from the stack totally, pressurize your condo with a small amount of fresh filtered outside air. This will overcome the stack effect and create your air space.
Other than starting to smoke, this is the most effective method of clearing your air. You need a fresh air change every 4 hours. Start by adding 50 cfm of fresh air to your space via fan in a window, 24-7. Increase the fresh air amount until the smell goes away. The colder the outside air temperature , the more fresh air is needed to stop the smoke from moving up from the lower level out through the top of building.
When outside air warms (spring/summer/fall), less outside air is needed to pressurize the space. A merv 11 system air filter will handle your air filtering.
After experimenting with the amount of fresh air needed to pressurize your space, you need to heat/cool/humidify/dehumidify the space to be comfortable. Usually, the energy needed is less than couple hundred dollars per year. With good conditioning, your condo will be more comfortable and have better air quality than ever.
In green grass climates, a small whole house ventilating dehumidifier is practical way of providing the amount of fresh air, filtering, and dehumidifying the space. You may need to add a humidifier for moisture during very cold weather.
Check out the small Ultra-Aire Whole house ventilating dehumidifier with fresh air and extra filtration.
Try the small fan in the window with about 50-60 cfm fresh air 24/7 for a couple days.
This an example of low flow fan to put in partially closed window:
http://www.homedepot.com/Heating-Ven...&storeId=10051

This is a trickle of fresh air.
If you want to resolve without experiamenting, have a a/c contract install the ventilating dehumidifier with fresh make up air.
Keep us posted.

You might want to try either a stand alone Honeywell Electronic Air Cleaner or a duct mounted Honeywell air cleaner.

Just pay attention to cleaning or replacing the filters as recommended depending which kind you get.



Here is a link
http://www.squidoo.com/honeywell-electronic-air-cleaner

Also there are other potential remedies.....
http://changelabsolutions.org/sites/...20120517_0.pdf

Originally Posted by dlove

MOVE

Ha! You make it sound so easy.... I'm not renting. I OWN the place. I've lived here for 10 years. In this market and the way condo values plummeted in my area, I'll never sell....at least not unless I'm willing to lose my shirt (and half my credit score with it.)