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Hard to believe with the way Jim and I go at it at times, but I really enjoyed talking extensively with Jim a couple of times last week at different places we wound up together at. Since he didn't run or toss a drink on me, I can only assume Jim was enjoying our conversations as well.

But you are right doc; its mostly in the presentation, but eventually you have to back up what you claim with real data.

Dont get me wrong, I am not here to pick a fight with him. But he has to have a solid point and there are more than a few people who work for various manufacturers sitting and waiting to see what it is. Granted the crowd will not wait long or wade through a bunch of drivel.

We all have heard his point on combustion efficiencies and product safety, and it has been duley noted. We have heard his point on rejecting warranties and that too has been heard. Neither of these are original, they have been issues that are considered and discussed regularly. Most of the various manufacturers know who Jim Davis is and know the issues he preaches. If you are arguing his points, know they have already been heard and better yet let Jim argue his own points. He's a big boy, he's also highly respected and doesnt need your help.

I will offer some helpful advice that may aid you in getting your point accross. Be specific, use specific examples or jobs, not hypothetical. Playing the conspiracy card will not yield much in the way of a response or even discussion. All we can do is listen. It may come as a big suprise but when your complaints have to do with legal issues, nobody here can represent their corporations without first running it through a legal department. Surely you are smart enough to know that. And frankly an internet forum is hardly a place for leagal issues to be addressed.

Doc, thanks for taking the first hits from the maiden so I am not his passion of the moment again. I of course agree with everything you have stated. There are those who do what they can to benefit our industry and then there is the maiden, who just whines about everyone else and making claims of doing more, all without any data to support his/her claims whatsoever.

I keep running into some decent folks that I respect who tell me they have talked to the maiden and that he is a he and that he is in the HVAC industry and even that he is not the jerk he comes off being when he posts on this forum. I just don't see it.

Now, on this thread, maiden has not only claimed that manufactures don't know what they are doing, but that shows like Comfortech are worthless to the wonders of himself.

No matter how good anyone is; without being a positive part of the community, they are worthless. That is where the maiden has alied himself; worthless.

Made, you dance around everything....

Make it clear once and for all what it is you want and be specific. None of us have time or the desire to sit and try to figure out what it is you want to say.

Originally posted by MadeinUSA

Originally posted by rrajecki
Good reply, John. I have suggested to the manufacturer that they join HVAC-Talk.com to get the straight talk you guys provide.

BTW, their theory was bad service by a distributor . . .

I guarantee you the manufacturers read this site for the pulse of the industry. They would have to be fools not to. The big question is do they want to post out here where creative minds can offer solutions that would better their bottom lines, help improve the image of the industry, and help the contractors run more profitable companies where we all rise on the same tide.

True, they do probably read this site. (our many lurkers)

But, being at the show, and signing up members, just about every brand name and trade association, distributor that was there did in fact sign up with us...
So I am thinking that we will see some interesting posts and answers in the near future.

Aw, come on doc, surely you can do a better job of representing the manufacturer side than that puke you just sprayed all over my screen.

And here you painted me as too cheap to spend plane fare for me and my men to bring ideas to the table when you have shown everyone here how closed minded you are. How ironic. What you do not realize is there are people on here that know for a FACT I have and do spend plane fares to fly to places that actually increase our knowledge and value. You can take your foot out of your mouth now.

Why waste my time and money to bring ideas to the table when I get to see first handed for free right here it would be a waste of my time as you have so eloquently shown with the garbage you just posted?


[Edited by MadeinUSA on 09-17-2006 at 03:32 PM]

One more thing... Comfortech and shows like it are the place where everyone in the industry comes together to show their wears and share ideas. If you had something to share, you should have gone. You had alll the manufactures in the same room along with your suppliers and competitors. Sounds like you missed your opportunity.

I suspect that speniding a few bucks on a hotel and travel is too much effort and that complaining on a free internet forum is more in line with the results you might get.

Well, plenty do but not for the pulse of the industry, but more like you, this is their livelyhood, this is thier passion. What is it you want manufactures to say? Install it correctly? Follow proper standards? Unfortunately, YOUR purchases drive the market as to what is built. For example... You want a price fighter unit? Ok, then they build one, no pressure switches, small foot print, hard to service. You want one with those features, start spending your money there, then there will be a shift in what comes down the line.

The individual componants are no more than a starting point for a system. The system must be engineered in the field, installed correctly and with integrity, service properly by people who keep their skills sharp by attending training regularly and take some personal time to read up on new technology and practices.

If you have a beef, communicate it without whining or using the old hit and run technique, back it up with data and facts and share your concern. If that doesnt work, then feel free to open up shop and find a solution. Airman1 was a great example of one who had complaints about system matching not working for certain situations. He spent time working on a solution, offered one to his customers, and took responsibility for it.

Bottom line and like it or not, just like your business, there is a requirement to profit and a requirement to survive over time, tossing pure crap into the market may profit for a short time, but will not last. Charing higher prices drives contractors and end users to look for other options. Like it or not we all choose our customers. We choose the market we play in. How does employing 8000 workers not count for anything? It's a team effort and all manufactures know that thier sucess depends on the success of their contractors and distributors.

Originally posted by rrajecki
Good reply, John. I have suggested to the manufacturer that they join HVAC-Talk.com to get the straight talk you guys provide.

BTW, their theory was bad service by a distributor . . .

I guarantee you the manufacturers read this site for the pulse of the industry. They would have to be fools not to. The big question is do they want to post out here where creative minds can offer solutions that would better their bottom lines, help improve the image of the industry, and help the contractors run more profitable companies where we all rise on the same tide.

Excellent Ron! I would venture to guess that if more of the manufacturers got involved in this forum it would be an 'eye-opener' for them. Questions such as this one posed by the manufacturer #1, would be quickly answered, and #2, with the exchange of information on the site, would probably never come up again! They would already know the answer and have been able to address it before it became an issue! Great to hear about the eagerness of those wanting to sign up, and the assistance provided by those representing the site. I know from donig trade shows that when you have something everyone wants to see, it really makes the time fly by! If you think your presence at Comfortech is a success, I've got an idea that will knock your socks off! Let me know if you're interested. All the best, John.

Good reply, John. I have suggested to the manufacturer that they join HVAC-Talk.com to get the straight talk you guys provide.

BTW, their theory was bad service by a distributor . . .

Ron, I hope you're kidding. Is this particular manufacturer just that naive'?

This question has the same answer as

"Why do customers switch dealers?"

I would be very interested to know why he 'believes' the dealer would switch brands.

Like I said, I surely hope this guy is not that naive'.

If this same fellow would like to sit down, like I did with another manufacturer, and help him see the forest along with the trees, I would be more than happy to.

All the best, John.

Just had lunch with a manufacturer. The question was asked, "Why do dealers switch brands?"

So . . . how about it?

Hello from Baltimore . . .

Great opening session this morning! A couple of highlights:

Contracting Business editor-in-chief Mike Weil emerging dressed as a birthday cake. And that was an improvement over some of the stuff he wears to the office!

Keynote speaker Brian Parsley was funny and motivating. His basic message is one we've all heard: about the importance of committing to make you company the best it can be. However, his approach was unique. He didn't lecture or chastise, simply pointed out that while you always start out with good intentions, it's very easy to get sidetrackeded by the day-to-day. The difference being "it would be nice to improve" and "I'm comitted to improve." A good point he made: People "want" to exercie, but if they were told they'd die tomorrow if they didn't excercise10 minutes per day, they'd commit to it! Look at your business the same way.

Tom McCart's induction into the Contracting Business HVAC Industry Hall of Fame was very emotional and touching, as his wife Diane accepted the award.

Finally, Charlie Greer brought the house down by proposing to his long-time girlfriend Deborah in front of the packed house. What a ham! She said yes anyway. . .

More later.