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Hi all. I know this is an old thread. Just restarted rereading H talk, keeps me up to date on this stuff, which, believe it or not, I do miss. Retired supermarket tech here from the Tri-state area. Put in 44 years of many 60 to 70 hour weeks in beat up compressor rooms and on roofs and in boiler rooms (old A&Ps and Food Fairs), but also in brand new machine rooms and rooftop pent houses with new state of the art racks, computer controllers, glycol cooling etc. Did lots of start ups and rack commissioning.
I did love some of the older stuff especially the Carrier 5H & 5F compressors and the Hussmann Thermoficient defrost systems and Big Systems, which mostly used old Worthingtons. Couldnt beat the deep chugga, chugga sound of those Carriers. Couldn't kill those compressors.
I understand that Raley's in Calif. still uses them in new stores. Anyone have experience with them now? Any photos to share? Thanks

I worked on some Hussman "Big Systems", I think they came out before the TD. All R-22, one big leak drains the entire store. Really fun to start up after a power failure, since the people I worked for didn't believe in unloaders.
The renovations where we would change a store from a TD or Big System to a Super Plus while it was open were always big overtime jobs.
The craziest thing Husmman ever did was the "Little Big System", 4 or 5 different medium temp fixtures multiplexed on one 20 hp air cooled. With " Loadmasters" and a suction stabilizer for good measure.

Yes

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Originally Posted by BALloyd

South Van.....a Jimmy P store.

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“River District”?


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South Van.....a Jimmy P store.

Originally Posted by coolerik

Nice! what location?


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This particular rack is using individual circuits. The rack has hot gas defrost. The valves at the rack are Electronic EPR's. Every single coil in the store has an EEV and controller.

Now the newest Hill Phoenix CO2 racks for this same customer use looped circuits and electric defrost.

Originally Posted by Putte

@BALloyd Do I see correct if there's one line set per user? All eexv in the rack?

Back in Sweden we do run a common liquid line, a common suction line for MT and a common suction line for LT. (LT discharge goes into MT suction) The users do have their own eexv controlled by the electronic thermostats. Often there is a Danfoss akc-550 managing the whole chest, reach-in or rooms.
The machinery itself got a own digital controller regulating gas pressure, heat recovery, liquid pressure and so on and even managing first stage compressors frequency transformers.

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Originally Posted by BALloyd

Brand new store. I did not install it....I do controls now. This rack came prewired from the manufacturer with our controls hardware. Their reps did the start up. I need to review the logs one day to see what they have been inputting as settings.

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Nice! what location?


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@BALloyd Do I see correct if there's one line set per user? All eexv in the rack?

Back in Sweden we do run a common liquid line, a common suction line for MT and a common suction line for LT. (LT discharge goes into MT suction) The users do have their own eexv controlled by the electronic thermostats. Often there is a Danfoss akc-550 managing the whole chest, reach-in or rooms.
The machinery itself got a own digital controller regulating gas pressure, heat recovery, liquid pressure and so on and even managing first stage compressors frequency transformers.

Originally Posted by BALloyd

Brand new store. I did not install it....I do controls now. This rack came prewired from the manufacturer with our controls hardware. Their reps did the start up. I need to review the logs one day to see what they have been inputting as settings.

"Great Photos", and "Thanks Again", for making some of us feel Really OLD!............................

Brand new store. I did not install it....I do controls now. This rack came prewired from the manufacturer with our controls hardware. Their reps did the start up. I need to review the logs one day to see what they have been inputting as settings.

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Originally Posted by BALloyd

To get a comparison....brand new Hussmann LMP CO2 rack started up last week. 254.jpg[/IMG]
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Thanks for sharing this BALloyd !! I'm not sure where it begins, or where it ends, but i Love it. Did you install this? Is this New Supermarket Store Work, or Retrofit? What is the total tonnage of it?

Originally Posted by bunny

I worked for the Hussmann San Jose, CA branch in the 80s, and had the pleasure to work on many TD Systems. Quite an engineering marvel, especially given that it was introduced in the 1960s.

Ice, not to take anything away from John Hassman, who was the Chief Engineer at the San Jose branch for a number of years, but he was not the person who originated the concept or came up with the original design of the TD System. That honor belongs to Julian "Cap" Blake, who worked for the Ray Winther Company (who was a Hussmann distributor in the 1960s). Not only did he come up with the concept of the TD system, but also holds the original patent on Kool Gas.

John likely added some refinements during his tenure at Hussmann, and was certainly a highly competent and well respected engineer.

Ed Estberg who worked for Hussmann in Sacramento, CA in the 1960s, brought a modified TD System concept to the Raley's SM chain. His influence in FMI "spread the word" of the TD System, or as it came to be known at FMI "The Ed System", and a few other smaller independent chains around the country have adopted them too.

Just an absolutely great system...I always felt like I was working on an industrial package, rather than a "mere" supermarket rack, when working on a TD System.

All GREAT STUFF bunny, Thanks for sharing it !!!!!!

To get a comparison....brand new Hussmann LMP CO2 rack started up last week.

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Originally Posted by Chuck

Wow, that is an interesting system. Why did the liquid leaving the receiver go outside through a fan coil? Trying to understand what the purpose of that was. Free subcooling in low outdoor temps?

Yes, it's ambient subcooling. The diagram shows it using a separate air-cooled condenser which is multi-circuited for both desuperheating the LT discharge gas and subcooling the liquid leaving the receiver before it goes to the mechanical subcooler. The ambient subcooling will typically provide 10°F or so of free subcooling.

Wow, that is an interesting system. Why did the liquid leaving the receiver go outside through a fan coil? Trying to understand what the purpose of that was. Free subcooling in low outdoor temps?

Cool


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Originally Posted by coolerik

So the low temp compressors discharge gas gets de superheated then dumps into the low temp suction header?


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The LT compressor discharge goes to the MT suction...a classic compound two-stage system. Note that the suction header in the diagram is split, with the MT on the left and LT on the right.

So the low temp compressors discharge gas gets de superheated then dumps into the low temp suction header?


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Originally Posted by bunny

I worked for the Hussmann San Jose, CA branch in the 80s, and had the pleasure to work on many TD Systems. Quite an engineering marvel, especially given that it was introduced in the 1960s.

Ice, not to take anything away from John Hassman, who was the Chief Engineer at the San Jose branch for a number of years, but he was not the person who originated the concept or came up with the original design of the TD System. That honor belongs to Julian "Cap" Blake, who worked for the Ray Winther Company (who was a Hussmann distributor in the 1960s). Not only did he come up with the concept of the TD system, but also holds the original patent on Kool Gas.

John likely added some refinements during his tenure at Hussmann, and was certainly a highly competent and well respected engineer.

Ed Estberg who worked for Hussmann in Sacramento, CA in the 1960s, brought a modified TD System concept to the Raley's SM chain. His influence in FMI "spread the word" of the TD System, or as it came to be known at FMI "The Ed System", and a few other smaller independent chains around the country have adopted them too.

Just an absolutely great system...I always felt like I was working on an industrial package, rather than a "mere" supermarket rack, when working on a TD System.

Thanks for explaining that. It's good to have someone who was directly involved to get the story straight. As I recall, I got it from our Hussmann sales rep who wasn't very familiar with the system. Now I know.

I worked for the Hussmann San Jose, CA branch in the 80s, and had the pleasure to work on many TD Systems. Quite an engineering marvel, especially given that it was introduced in the 1960s.

Ice, not to take anything away from John Hassman, who was the Chief Engineer at the San Jose branch for a number of years, but he was not the person who originated the concept or came up with the original design of the TD System. That honor belongs to Julian "Cap" Blake, who worked for the Ray Winther Company (who was a Hussmann distributor in the 1960s). Not only did he come up with the concept of the TD system, but also holds the original patent on Kool Gas.

John likely added some refinements during his tenure at Hussmann, and was certainly a highly competent and well respected engineer.

Ed Estberg who worked for Hussmann in Sacramento, CA in the 1960s, brought a modified TD System concept to the Raley's SM chain. His influence in FMI "spread the word" of the TD System, or as it came to be known at FMI "The Ed System", and a few other smaller independent chains around the country have adopted them too.

Just an absolutely great system...I always felt like I was working on an industrial package, rather than a "mere" supermarket rack, when working on a TD System.

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