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Originally Posted by Dilp172

Sounds like your customer has a less than perfect system and is pushing you to get it going.I recammend you don't be a hero,inform them of there options and consequences and let them decide.If you want to get them going you can try and start it with a bunch of condensor fans disconnected and start it with a manifold set attached and babysit it.I would recammend they drain the bundles and winterize them with glycol.
Sorry to rant but i'm sick of customers whining about stuff not being perfect then they expect the world of you.Sounds like your customer and the owner of your company have a problem.Good Luck.

Pumps and load for the building are 24/7 with enough load for 2 chillers which is about 400 tons.

1) I would have figured that Trane kinda missed it both times once when the sales engineer sold the chillers to begin with knowing what the building was going to be used for.

2)When Trane started the chillers up , they pushed the freeze protection aspect of it but not a low ambient running situation on a data center lab .

So I can't put it all on the customer. Sorry for my rant.

Sounds like your customer has a less than perfect system and is pushing you to get it going.I recammend you don't be a hero,inform them of there options and consequences and let them decide.If you want to get them going you can try and start it with a bunch of condensor fans disconnected and start it with a manifold set attached and babysit it.I would recammend they drain the bundles and winterize them with glycol.
Sorry to rant but i'm sick of customers whining about stuff not being perfect then they expect the world of you.Sounds like your customer and the owner of your company have a problem.Good Luck.

I thought you would appreciate the pudding problem here.

And its really hard to pump frozen pudding ???????

I thought you would appreciate the pudding problem here.

Originally Posted by Phisher

The answer to your problem is in the pudding. You need to make sure your using whole milk and not skim. Tech support won't tell you that but everyone knows it's true. I hope you at least tasted the pudding before calling tech support. They can tell who has tasted it and who hasn't.

NICE! you've been reading!

the chiller needs to be in control of the pudding pump AT ALL TIMES! it is right there in the latest IOM. if the chiller calls for pudding to flow...then there better be pudding flowing!

Originally Posted by Phisher

The answer to your problem is in the pudding. You need to make sure your using whole milk and not skim. Tech support won't tell you that but everyone knows it's true. I hope you at least tasted the pudding before calling tech support. They can tell who has tasted it and who hasn't.

Bill?

The answer to your problem is in the pudding. You need to make sure your using whole milk and not skim. Tech support won't tell you that but everyone knows it's true. I hope you at least tasted the pudding before calling tech support. They can tell who has tasted it and who hasn't.

Originally Posted by thegoodlistener

Why would I wan`t Trane to install the low ambient kit when I could do it myself and probably better.

Git-er did den.

Thanks for all the great info guys.

Originally Posted by cperk

If the customer want's them to run, have them pay Trane to install low ambient kits on them. They come out and install the VFDs on one fan per circuit, all of the wiring, and the modules for the VFDs. Then you can run down to 0 deg. F.

Why would I wan`t Trane to install the low ambient kit when I could do it myself and probably better.

I can see why no one would order a low ambient kit in Dallas, Texas. So I would just keep the other two online and live with it. Or, I guess you could remove the fuses for the fans that start first, but that would be kind of reckless.

Originally Posted by thegoodlistener

Had a co-worker looking at a foursome of RTAC's last week in the cold weather the building guys were saying that 2 of them would not start . ( part of their freeze protection scheme) the 2 chillers that would not start due to run inhibited, saturated condenser temperature below 25 degrees. So he called Trane tech support and told him that was the case live with it. Btw the units don't have low ambient. The Trane tech support guy would not elaborate on the reasoning as to what damage this would cause . Does anyone else know the reason for this?

If the customer want's them to run, have them pay Trane to install low ambient kits on them. They come out and install the VFDs on one fan per circuit, all of the wiring, and the modules for the VFDs. Then you can run down to 0 deg. F.

Originally Posted by graham

as for scrambling a compressor, probably not going to happen since you won't be running for long before a low evap temp trip.

That all depends on weather someone is holding in the contactor with a big screwdriver trying to get it to run or not ?????

As long as the 2 chillers that were running before the cold weather came in stay online Graham I promise you a big screw driver won't used to harm any compressors in this thread!!!!!!

as for scrambling a compressor, probably not going to happen since you won't be running for long before a low evap temp trip.

That all depends on weather someone is holding in the contactor with a big screwdriver trying to get it to run or not ?????

generally speaking, you are going to trip off on low evap temp because you can't get any head pressure. the fans are going to be too agressive at start up. as for scrambling a compressor, probably not going to happen since you won't be running for long before a low evap temp trip.

don't worry Graham it made it out of the warranty period

A frozen evaporator is a frozen evaporator and their aint no warranty that covers that !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by graham

Trane has already signed off on the pump / isolation valve control years ago

The latest IOM I have still states that the chiller has to control the pump or catastophic evaporater failure could occur ????

I'm picking up what your throwing down but the customer has it in writing from Trane but don't worry Graham it made it out of the warranty period , btw I wasn't asking about freezing up the evaporator.

Trane has already signed off on the pump / isolation valve control years ago

The latest IOM I have still states that the chiller has to control the pump or catastophic evaporater failure could occur ????

Trane has already signed off on the pump / isolation valve control years ago there is no glycol. Not per the IOM. It has not been this cold down here in 7 years to test this algorithm I guess.

25 degrees ???
Better hope you have some glycol in them and the pumps are interlocked to the chiller as per the IOM ??
If they dont have the low ambient option then your SOL !!!!!!!!!!
Your customer didnt pay for low ambient and they aint gonna run without it . You could get them running if you really want to but be prepared to replace compressors and then you have to explain why they scambled to your customer !!!!!