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Hah, entertainment at its finest...

Originally Posted by Mechanicalman1

I thought this information would give you a good idea of what we have seen as recorded data from a plant which has had Endocube installed throughout the facility.

Large Refrigerated Warehouse-

900 Hp. High Stage 2 - Stage
225 Hp. Booster R-717( Ammonia ) 4- Penthouse Freezer zones / -3* 1- Hanging Evaporator Freezer / -4* 5- Hanging Evaporators / 40* dock
VFD Driven motors
6- Hanging Evaporators / 28* cooler 10- Hanging Evaporators / 36* cooler 2- Hanging Evaporators / 55* Rooms



System initially ran defrost 0n 18 to 24 liquid run time. After installing Endocubes on all evaporators in January defrost times were initially extended to 36 Hrs. with no frost build up after one week. The next test was done with defrost times at 96 Hrs. results the same. Final test was done at 168Hrs for 3- weeks, results same as above. Location in the Midwest United States

Due to extending defrost times system operated smoothly with consistent room temps within 2* to 3* of set point. Compressors did not experience large load swings due minimal hot gas defrost cycles. Over all the location experienced a kW reduction of 5% to10% and ambient was approximately 25% warmer than the previous year.


Note: Defrost times will vary with temperature and humidity of location but appears minimal expectation is double with cube over standard control.

Is this not the same plant, where you also changed the evap fan operation, to a forced draft off cycle defrost. (original fan control was off with thermostat)
Is also the same plant that had a very small hysteresis on the air thermostat control, along with no anti cycle settings.
So a simple change to the control algorithms, would achieve the same results for next to little to no cost.
Milking more oil from snakes "I think"

Originally Posted by Mechanicalman1

System initially ran defrost 0n 18 to 24 liquid run time. After installing Endocubes on all evaporators in January defrost times were initially extended to 36 Hrs. with no frost build up after one week. The next test was done with defrost times at 96 Hrs. results the same. Final test was done at 168Hrs for 3- weeks, results same as above. Location in the Midwest United States

Let me know how that 96 hour defrost interval works out for ya come July.....


Snake oil peddler.

I call Bullsheet

you cant eliminate defrost with a stat
butlow humidity can help and the endo do do
cant

I call Bull****

you cant eliminate defrost with a stat
butlow humidity can help and the endo do do
cant

I thought this information would give you a good idea of what we have seen as recorded data from a plant which has had Endocube installed throughout the facility.

Large Refrigerated Warehouse-

900 Hp. High Stage 2 - Stage
225 Hp. Booster R-717( Ammonia ) 4- Penthouse Freezer zones / -3* 1- Hanging Evaporator Freezer / -4* 5- Hanging Evaporators / 40* dock
VFD Driven motors
6- Hanging Evaporators / 28* cooler 10- Hanging Evaporators / 36* cooler 2- Hanging Evaporators / 55* Rooms



System initially ran defrost 0n 18 to 24 liquid run time. After installing Endocubes on all evaporators in January defrost times were initially extended to 36 Hrs. with no frost build up after one week. The next test was done with defrost times at 96 Hrs. results the same. Final test was done at 168Hrs for 3- weeks, results same as above. Location in the Midwest United States

Due to extending defrost times system operated smoothly with consistent room temps within 2* to 3* of set point. Compressors did not experience large load swings due minimal hot gas defrost cycles. Over all the location experienced a kW reduction of 5% to10% and ambient was approximately 25% warmer than the previous year.


Note: Defrost times will vary with temperature and humidity of location but appears minimal expectation is double with cube over standard control.

Originally Posted by Phase Loss

Are you OK??

That's 2 nonsensical posts you have here.

i think that my words are uderstood in the bad side
what is the confliction that you get from it?

Are you OK??

That's 2 nonsensical posts you have here.

Originally Posted by Phase Loss

you guys need to unlock your mind and venture into the future where people enjoy melted ice cream and bloody browned meat.

dear prof
is it any new method to recover bad oil that scape in to evaporator coil ?

Originally Posted by elheese

your word actually too hard

What point are you trying to convey with this post?

Originally Posted by jpsmith1cm

I read until I hit the phrase "thermal inertia"

Then something shorted out in my brain and I decided that brain cells would commit mass suicide if I read any further.

your word actually too hard

What is the new legislation and regulation which comes into act on July 4th 2012 ?

Originally Posted by bob_scheel

The individual values are also set to alarm if too warm for too long.

The air sensor will win every time.

Due to lack of what I believe they called "Thermal Inertia"

Originally Posted by jpsmith1cm

Alright.

Is there a value in monitoring product temperature? Sure. The product is the ONLY reason that we have refrigeration. If there isn't any product in the case, then we might as well shut it down. 100% energy savings.

Now. How will monitoring product temperature help us to save energy? By cycling the refrigeration based upon product temp rather than on air temp? BAD IDEA.

We'll see wider temperature swings and more energy will be consumed in pull-down after pull-down rather than a steady, even temperature control.

There's another reason that this is not going to work out.

Anyone who has worked in the retail refrigeration sector for any length of time will know that the employees try to CHEAT. They'll shove warm product into a case any time they think they can get away with it.

What that means is that this thing is useless. It will be reading the "steady state" temperature of the case. The temp that product would be if everything was done properly. Since everything is almost never done properly, it's a big waste of money.


Of course, those that deal in 'thermal inertia' and other equally spooky and mystical language have great sales pitches and those that are in the market to buy such things have defective BS detectors. A match made in P.T. Barnum's version of heaven if there ever was.

We are seeing these high mass temp sensors being installed in a convenience store chain that we service. The control scheme is to pair the high mass sensor with a traditional air temp sensor and average the two to get a value that is then used to control the on/off of the LLSV or compressor. The individual values are also set to alarm if too warm for too long. It does cause runtimes to be longer but we typically do not see that because the differential is set tighter. After a defrost recovery (of the product) is quicker though because the high mass sensor keeps the refrigeration on longer. Energy savings? I doubt it, but it does have some advantages in keeping the product cold which IS our primary objective. BTW I do not think one company has the lock on these because I have seen several manufacturers.

I've been told by good authority that we wont even use refrigeration in the future.

we will be be eating dehydrated powder and jerky

Originally Posted by Phase Loss

you guys need to unlock your mind and venture into the future where people enjoy melted ice cream and bloody browned meat.

Yah, I agree....and WTF is a fogging case gonna be any use for to extend the quality/water weight in meat for an extra 4-6 days to preserve food value AND profit.....just sell the dry brown stuff in the closed cases too....right??!!!

you guys need to unlock your mind and venture into the future where people enjoy melted ice cream and bloody browned meat.

Originally Posted by jpsmith1cm

Alright.

Is there a value in monitoring product temperature? Sure. The product is the ONLY reason that we have refrigeration. If there isn't any product in the case, then we might as well shut it down. 100% energy savings.

Now. How will monitoring product temperature help us to save energy? By cycling the refrigeration based upon product temp rather than on air temp? BAD IDEA.

We'll see wider temperature swings and more energy will be consumed in pull-down after pull-down rather than a steady, even temperature control.

There's another reason that this is not going to work out.

Anyone who has worked in the retail refrigeration sector for any length of time will know that the employees try to CHEAT. They'll shove warm product into a case any time they think they can get away with it.

What that means is that this thing is useless. It will be reading the "steady state" temperature of the case. The temp that product would be if everything was done properly. Since everything is almost never done properly, it's a big waste of money.


Of course, those that deal in 'thermal inertia' and other equally spooky and mystical language have great sales pitches and those that are in the market to buy such things have defective BS detectors. A match made in P.T. Barnum's version of heaven if there ever was.

Oh quit whining JP, everybody loves 'grainy' ice cream.....wait 'till it melts a little before you throttle that EPR, then freeze er down again WTF.... It'll work even better on the fresh meat cases.....when the radiated light to the surface of the meat can take the surface up 35 degG hotter than case air/over temp!!!

Alright.

Is there a value in monitoring product temperature? Sure. The product is the ONLY reason that we have refrigeration. If there isn't any product in the case, then we might as well shut it down. 100% energy savings.

Now. How will monitoring product temperature help us to save energy? By cycling the refrigeration based upon product temp rather than on air temp? BAD IDEA.

We'll see wider temperature swings and more energy will be consumed in pull-down after pull-down rather than a steady, even temperature control.

There's another reason that this is not going to work out.

Anyone who has worked in the retail refrigeration sector for any length of time will know that the employees try to CHEAT. They'll shove warm product into a case any time they think they can get away with it.

What that means is that this thing is useless. It will be reading the "steady state" temperature of the case. The temp that product would be if everything was done properly. Since everything is almost never done properly, it's a big waste of money.


Of course, those that deal in 'thermal inertia' and other equally spooky and mystical language have great sales pitches and those that are in the market to buy such things have defective BS detectors. A match made in P.T. Barnum's version of heaven if there ever was.

it isn't our product. And I think the product is well and truly covered by patents. who ever mentioned a price anyway. Oh Safeway have started installing as we were sent a case study and location it has been installed to date. I think Krogers & Albertsons in Utah area have them also. But as we don't sell them I couldn't be certain.

Why would you need a website for a product you said is BS???? are you coming to think it works. Hmmm