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Originally Posted by Tranes4you

You know I've been on this site almost daily (unregistered) for the past few years gaining knowledge and sometimes even laughing about how idiotic some you crybabys sound. Oh Lennox undersells their PM, oh CMS has some party that you have to make money to be in. I fully understand not every company is going to be for everybody. Some guys like residential, some like chillers and yes even some like retail. What I don't understand is how your negative experience leads you to believe nobody should ever work for one of these companies. Man up and say it wasn't for me. You can state the reasons why but every tech is not you, so bashing a company without actual proof is way out of line. As far as I know every body is in business to make money and as far as I know companies don't stay around long if they're robbing the customers or changing parts that don't need to be changed. I am pretty sure the retail sector would spread the word at the PRSM meetings about who was screwing who. As you know everybody ends up undercutting everybody in retail. If Target has a widget for $6 Walmart will sell it for $5.50. Well I think the same thing happens with these big HVAC companies in the retail sector. And as far as pay goes you don't have to have a $40 per hour tech with 30 years exp. working on a 5 ton RTU. Do you? Maybe that's why their scale is low. I do know a couple of guys working at the big one that is making $34 an hour so maybe it what he's worth, IDK.
I interview with one residential company several years ago and they wanted to give me $11 per hour and 20% of the ticket price. I feel like this is more of a rip off company than these guys that pay an average of $22 an hour for some 5 ton rooftop work. Oh well, I said my peace that has built up for years and I hope it urges some of you to think about the comment because there are guys with a couple of years in the field that read this board and might find retail works for them to get their feet wet and jump up to the big dogs like all of you and make $50 per hour with full paid medical and benefits. Oh and on a side note there must be a reason companies like Benner and CAS and the other one that recently was purchased had to close up and sell but these guys are still running strong.
Be well my brothers.

I think you posted the same thing a while back using a different name.
I used to do lots of retail HVAC, my employer lost all the accounts to Lennox NAS and others, they came in out of nowhere and under bid every contract, we wonder how can they make any money charging $60 to do an hour PM on a RTU including belts and filters? We now know how they make the money and for ethical and moral reasons we refuse to do the same.

Originally Posted by Tranes4you

You know I've been on this site almost daily (unregistered) for the past few years gaining knowledge and sometimes even laughing about how idiotic some you crybabys sound. Oh Lennox undersells their PM, oh CMS has some party that you have to make money to be in. I fully understand not every company is going to be for everybody. Some guys like residential, some like chillers and yes even some like retail. What I don't understand is how your negative experience leads you to believe nobody should ever work for one of these companies. Man up and say it wasn't for me. You can state the reasons why but every tech is not you, so bashing a company without actual proof is way out of line. As far as I know every body is in business to make money and as far as I know companies don't stay around long if they're robbing the customers or changing parts that don't need to be changed. I am pretty sure the retail sector would spread the word at the PRSM meetings about who was screwing who. As you know everybody ends up undercutting everybody in retail. If Target has a widget for $6 Walmart will sell it for $5.50. Well I think the same thing happens with these big HVAC companies in the retail sector. And as far as pay goes you don't have to have a $40 per hour tech with 30 years exp. working on a 5 ton RTU. Do you? Maybe that's why their scale is low. I do know a couple of guys working at the big one that is making $34 an hour so maybe it what he's worth, IDK.
I interview with one residential company several years ago and they wanted to give me $11 per hour and 20% of the ticket price. I feel like this is more of a rip off company than these guys that pay an average of $22 an hour for some 5 ton rooftop work. Oh well, I said my peace that has built up for years and I hope it urges some of you to think about the comment because there are guys with a couple of years in the field that read this board and might find retail works for them to get their feet wet and jump up to the big dogs like all of you and make $50 per hour with full paid medical and benefits. Oh and on a side note there must be a reason companies like Benner and CAS and the other one that recently was purchased had to close up and sell but these guys are still running strong.
Be well my brothers.

The way you "squash" the "bugs" of HVAC is to step on them, and encourage other good techs to step on them, too.

That is the free labor market at work.

You know I've been on this site almost daily (unregistered) for the past few years gaining knowledge and sometimes even laughing about how idiotic some you crybabys sound. Oh Lennox undersells their PM, oh CMS has some party that you have to make money to be in. I fully understand not every company is going to be for everybody. Some guys like residential, some like chillers and yes even some like retail. What I don't understand is how your negative experience leads you to believe nobody should ever work for one of these companies. Man up and say it wasn't for me. You can state the reasons why but every tech is not you, so bashing a company without actual proof is way out of line. As far as I know every body is in business to make money and as far as I know companies don't stay around long if they're robbing the customers or changing parts that don't need to be changed. I am pretty sure the retail sector would spread the word at the PRSM meetings about who was screwing who. As you know everybody ends up undercutting everybody in retail. If Target has a widget for $6 Walmart will sell it for $5.50. Well I think the same thing happens with these big HVAC companies in the retail sector. And as far as pay goes you don't have to have a $40 per hour tech with 30 years exp. working on a 5 ton RTU. Do you? Maybe that's why their scale is low. I do know a couple of guys working at the big one that is making $34 an hour so maybe it what he's worth, IDK.
I interview with one residential company several years ago and they wanted to give me $11 per hour and 20% of the ticket price. I feel like this is more of a rip off company than these guys that pay an average of $22 an hour for some 5 ton rooftop work. Oh well, I said my peace that has built up for years and I hope it urges some of you to think about the comment because there are guys with a couple of years in the field that read this board and might find retail works for them to get their feet wet and jump up to the big dogs like all of you and make $50 per hour with full paid medical and benefits. Oh and on a side note there must be a reason companies like Benner and CAS and the other one that recently was purchased had to close up and sell but these guys are still running strong.
Be well my brothers.

Originally Posted by hvacpope

Benner, MetroTech, Lennox Nas are the "burger King" version of HVAC, they bid work low, make money on parts and cheap labor, hire mostly inexperience techs, pay them as little as they can, only managements counts, "techs" are disposable, managers get pay base salaries plus bonus, the extra $$$ depends on how hard they drive you to do more with less, to them we are just a number literally.
That type of "business model was confined to the residential market, them 3 outfits plus some more are trying really hard to screw the commercial side of the trade.

Agree

Originally Posted by prounionelp

I'll use Albuquerque for the example. C-Card is $21.09 & B-Card is $23.20, LNAS can afford to pay either one of those equivalents to its techs. The Union Local fringes are approximately $10/hr. LNAS may be around $5/hr for its fringes. So we'll say LNAS in Albuquerque tech cost is $28.20. LNAS bids out peanuts for its "PMs". So it's not the techs' fault for low margins!

I see now.

I think that Co's who bid their PM's on a low margin hope to "make it up" with quoted and approved repairs as a result of those PM visits. This brings up my previous observation about NAS, that being: once you have installed new units on a client's roof, there is nothing else to do during those PM visits. That forces you to always be in site acquisition mode, leaving a scorched earth of wary clients and new equipment in your wake, and making increasingly unrealistic promises to the new clients. This approach "gets around" in the industry, and eventually, with many other choices for the same services with a better business model (First, Comfort, USM, CLS, Smart, etc) the NAS model will soon implode.

Originally Posted by wisconsinapp

I don't think anyone has questioned it was the fault of the techs? As far as all of your B C F K G J K Card lettering system, I have no idea what in the world you are even talking about. Now Im not a union member, but I believe in my area in the union, you are either a pre-apprentice, apprentice or journeymen... And I can tell you that the journeymen would probably laugh in your face at 23 bucks an hour... Yes, NAS is not my preference for a job, but I guess as has been stated numerous times before, its good for someone green I guess because its going to be all hands on learning. But I guess I dont really understand what your question was here because nobody said it was the techs fault.

I never mentioned Wisconsin, it say Albuquerque for the example. Believe it or not, some Locals even use the title "Journeyman" in their residential classifications. Albuquerque is one of those Locals. When you say Journeymen, I believe you're referring to an MES Journeyman.

Originally Posted by prounionelp

I'll use Albuquerque for the example. C-Card is $21.09 & B-Card is $23.20, LNAS can afford to pay either one of those equivalents to its techs. The Union Local fringes are approximately $10/hr. LNAS may be around $5/hr for its fringes. So we'll say LNAS in Albuquerque tech cost is $28.20. LNAS bids out peanuts for its "PMs". So it's not the techs' fault for low margins!

I don't think anyone has questioned it was the fault of the techs? As far as all of your B C F K G J K Card lettering system, I have no idea what in the world you are even talking about. Now Im not a union member, but I believe in my area in the union, you are either a pre-apprentice, apprentice or journeymen... And I can tell you that the journeymen would probably laugh in your face at 23 bucks an hour... Yes, NAS is not my preference for a job, but I guess as has been stated numerous times before, its good for someone green I guess because its going to be all hands on learning. But I guess I dont really understand what your question was here because nobody said it was the techs fault.

Originally Posted by timebuilder

Long day for me. Can you clarify the second question?

I'll use Albuquerque for the example. C-Card is $21.09 & B-Card is $23.20, LNAS can afford to pay either one of those equivalents to its techs. The Union Local fringes are approximately $10/hr. LNAS may be around $5/hr for its fringes. So we'll say LNAS in Albuquerque tech cost is $28.20. LNAS bids out peanuts for its "PMs". So it's not the techs' fault for low margins!

Originally Posted by prounionelp

So for all you former Benner & Tradeswinds guys that became Lennox NAS after acquisition, how do you like or how did you like working for LNAS? Oh yeah, what fault is it of a Service Tech making approximately prevailing wage, that his employer is bidding $100 PMs?!

Long day for me. Can you clarify the second question?

So for all you former Benner & Tradeswinds guys that became Lennox NAS after acquisition, how do you like or how did you like working for LNAS? Oh yeah, what fault is it of a Service Tech making approximately prevailing wage, that his employer is bidding $100 PMs?!

Originally Posted by hvacpope

I'm just the pope and to be honest; working for NAS is not a bad deal for green techs, they get $16+ an hour,company truck,phone and the opportunity to experiment and gain experience at the customers expense, I know the new guys ride with the service manager for a very long two weeks before going on their own, I'm also aware of all the wonderful online training, seriously is not a bad deal for a greenhorn now the customer is getting screw big time and you know it. I'm glad it works for you!

Baby Jesus....Wow, don't let this go to your head but you are kind of right. The branch budgets are modeled the same throughtout the country based on how many pieces of equipment. I guess cost of living is cheaper down south? Customers are charged the same throughout the country as well. I have noticed the the southern state branches for the most part always rank high while the northern states are the red headed step child. The branch budgets (in my opinion) are not designed for the wages that the techs where making at Benner and Tradewinds.(As you know their is not many of us left) You really cant make much $ when the guy makes $30+ an hour and he is doing a $80 PM. I have never had the manager ride along thing though. Online training is a joke. They don't care if you take courses or not, it is a tax write off. Not all of us try to screw our customers but I do sense they are upset when I don't open a FOPM every three months. I have been trying to make a point to be positive on here about my employer but I guess today is a bad day. By all means, if my perceptions are incorrect please correct me. This is my point of view and I guess I can just be thankful I have a job.

P.S. I am glad you enjoyed the inuendo. lol

Originally Posted by hvacpope

I dunno what C card, B card or X card are and dont really care , we dont operate that way up here. whats your point? Lennox is non-union and they will slam doors before going union.

We can only hope that happens.

Originally Posted by prounionelp

The way you state, it's like they'd rather close up than to organize or even pay the prevailing wage!

there was meeting in New York City with all the techs and Lennox mid level supervisors, one tech asked the question about going union and the answer from Lennox was "we would close shop and let go all of you" that tech was fired sometime later.

Originally Posted by maynard

Contrary to what the GOD of HVAC says it isn't really THAT bad.

I'm just the pope and to be honest; working for NAS is not a bad deal for green techs, they get $16+ an hour,company truck,phone and the opportunity to experiment and gain experience at the customers expense, I know the new guys ride with the service manager for a very long two weeks before going on their own, I'm also aware of all the wonderful online training, seriously is not a bad deal for a greenhorn now the customer is getting screw big time and you know it. I'm glad it works for you!

The way you state, it's like they'd rather close up than to organize or even pay the prevailing wage!

Originally Posted by prounionelp

I think Lennox NAS should be paying equivalent to MES Serviceman (B-Card).

great idea!! why dont you give Bluedorn a call

I think Lennox NAS should be paying equivalent to MES Serviceman (B-Card).

Originally Posted by prounionelp

I have a question since so many say the pay is low @ Lennox NAS. If they went Union, under the National Residential agreement which is referred to as C-Card work in some Locals. Would that be an increase or decrease for most of their techs? In Chicago, C-Card is $22.98/hr & in Albuquerque it's $21.09/hr.

I think that depends where the tech is located and their skill level. I hold a Masters and that figure is way low. I make a good living at NAS because I came with a buyout. Contrary to what the GOD of HVAC says it isn't really THAT bad.

Originally Posted by prounionelp

I understand, but from their work scope on their website, that's C-Card work. It's covered under the National Residential agreement.

I dunno what C card, B card or X card are and dont really care , we dont operate that way up here. whats your point? Lennox is non-union and they will slam doors before going union.

I understand, but from their work scope on their website, that's C-Card work. It's covered under the National Residential agreement.