http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/ FOR EQUIPMENT OWNERS ONLY Questions and discussions pertaining to HVAC for the home. No pricing, no DIY, please read Site Rules Register en Wed, 19 Jun 2013 17:55:28 GMT vBulletin 60 http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/images/misc/rss.png http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/ http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?1336011-I-need-a-year-or-two-more-outta-my-system-help-please&goto=newpost Wed, 19 Jun 2013 17:52:41 GMT I live in S Florida and am one of the few homes with natural gas and have a gas furnace with AC coils on top of my air handler. I am a technical... I live in S Florida and am one of the few homes with natural gas and have a gas furnace with AC coils on top of my air handler. I am a technical professional with many disciplines and have a good understanding of many systems including AC. I have been VERY impressed with my Rheem 3 ton system, the condenser unit is coming up on 15 years and the air handler/furnace 14 and I am still getting a 20 degree split temp. Since the furnace gets little use here in S FL it is in great condition as is the blower. Unfortunately with the coil over system there is no access to the cooling coil to clean it. Enough background, now my queries.

For the past few years I have noticed that during the hot months (upper 80s and above) my system seems to run for long periods during the day with the Tstat set only at 79 or 80 even with the split temp around 20 degrees which is quite good from my research, and the inside temp is rather comfortable for me (but then I never lower my tstat below 78). I am wondering if the volume may have decreased over the years due to dirty coils. The cooling coils are downstream of the furnace (just above) and I was hoping that the furnace heat would help keep them clean. I guess my question would be given the summer hear in the 90s is it common for an AC system to run for long periods and very slowly lower the temp? I have been contemplating drilling out the rivets on the coil box front cover to remove it and give them a cleaning and reattach the cover with sheet metal screws, has anyone ever attempted this?

My filters to get dirty very quickly so I am considering switching to a high quality cleanable one to increase airflow and reduce cost.

I started saving late last year to have the condensor unit and coils replaced but that is almost $3k so I have about another year or so to save, God willing and the creek don't rise. ]]> AOP Residential HVAC shadow83 http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?1336011-I-need-a-year-or-two-more-outta-my-system-help-please http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?1335971-Annual-quot-tuneups-quot-necessary-or-sales-pitch&goto=newpost Wed, 19 Jun 2013 16:58:30 GMT Are these annual or bi-annual tuneups necessary for HVAC equipment or is it just a money making service for companies? I hear from some people... Are these annual or bi-annual tuneups necessary for HVAC equipment or is it just a money making service for companies?

I hear from some people that only the filter needs to be changed while everything should be left alone unless there is a change in the way the system performs.

Other people say things should be checked. ]]> AOP Residential HVAC pookley http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?1335971-Annual-quot-tuneups-quot-necessary-or-sales-pitch http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?1335921-How-to-make-the-degree-symbol&goto=newpost Wed, 19 Jun 2013 15:31:39 GMT How do I make the degree symbol on my laptop like I can on a desktop with standard keyboard Alt + 0176 How do I make the degree symbol on my laptop like I can on a desktop with standard keyboard Alt + 0176 ]]> AOP Residential HVAC drift buster http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?1335921-How-to-make-the-degree-symbol http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?1335881-Carrier-Amana-and-Infinity-Comfornet-Questions-on-AC&goto=newpost Wed, 19 Jun 2013 13:14:35 GMT Hey, I asked a question last week about furnace specs and what people thought of certain components. It helped me ask the right questions and... Hey,

I asked a question last week about furnace specs and what people thought of certain components. It helped me ask the right questions and since then I have narrowed my choice to two installers (from four), a Carrier installer and an Amana installer:

Carrier:
• Infinity 96 (60,000 BTU)
• Performance 16 (1.5 ton 16 SEER) * upgrade option to Infinity 16 for Infinity Control

Amana
• AMVC95 (70,000 BTU)
• ASX14 (2 ton 14 SEER) * upgrade option to ASXC16 for Comfornet Control

I have a couple of additional questions I was hoping someone could answer.

1) When I asked about upgrading the AC unit to the communication models (for Infinity Control/Comfortnet) as motoguy128 suggested, one of the installers was a bit hesitant and said they worried about maintenance of those models and could see having difficulties with the control board on the AC failing due to outside elements. Does anyone have any experience with how the control boards on the AC units are exposed to the elements/how they hold up over time? I live in Toronto, Ontario, Canada, so we do get longish winters. They claimed they had only installed 5 so far and they were uncertain of their long term feasibility of them the way they were setup today (this is the Amana installer).

2) Does anyone know if there is a large difference between the Carrier Infinity Control and the Amana/Goodman Comfortnet? The only thing I could find online that differed was that Comfortnet seemed to follow the new ClimateTalk standard. Otherwise they seemed to do identical things.

3) Lastly, does anyone know of or have any quality issues with Amana in the last few years? I have been reading online and the consensus seems to be that Amana is a good product overall. Of the two carriers listed, they are equally priced after rebates are taken into consideration. I have a slightly better feeling with the Amana installer, but am concerned about Amana/Goodman quality after reading the forms. The other factor is that the Amana installer gives a 10 year warranty + 10 year labour guarantee, while carrier only provides the 10 year warranty. All this pushes me towards the Amana installer with my biggest source of hesitation now being quality of the product.

Thanks for any pointers ]]> AOP Residential HVAC bslack http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?1335881-Carrier-Amana-and-Infinity-Comfornet-Questions-on-AC http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?1335821-Awful-Hissing-Noise&goto=newpost Wed, 19 Jun 2013 10:53:43 GMT I just had central AC installed in my home. The Condenser is an Amana ASX140421 and the air handler in the attic is a Goodman ARUF42C14. The... I just had central AC installed in my home. The Condenser is an Amana ASX140421 and the air handler in the attic is a Goodman ARUF42C14. The refrigerant lines run two stories up the outside of my house in slim duct and then enter into the master bedroom closet as they travel up into the attic.

The AC contractor couldn't run and test out the system before they were finished because I was having my wood floors refinished. So I turned on the AC yesterday and the refrigerant lines started making a loud hissing sound. I thought it was a leak, so I shut the system down and had a technician come out. There were no leaks and the technician said that the hissing sound was normal.

I have had central AC systems before and I never, ever heard a sound like this. Any clue on what is going on?

Thanks! ]]> AOP Residential HVAC pfrankk http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?1335821-Awful-Hissing-Noise http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?1335711-Trane-AC-furnace-model-selection&goto=newpost Wed, 19 Jun 2013 03:19:11 GMT Hi,

I've been lurking for a couple of weeks and have had a number of contractors come over to give an estimate on replacing my 20 year old system. I had two paths to go: (1) Upgrade to a fancy future-proof system or (2) Replace system with a standard modern system. I live in Orange County in Southern California, so path 1 just didn't make sense overall given the relatively short usage of the AC and furnace throughout the year.

I live in a 1,900 sqft 3-story townhouse. The AC is outside and furnace in the attic. I've narrowed down my selection to Trane to AC: 4 ton XB13 or XR13 and furance: XR80 or XL80. None of the contractors could give me any functional differences between the XB13 and XR13 other than the shell being different colors. The website also noted the XB13 being 48,000 BTU while the XR13 was 46,500. This was explained as the XR13 being more efficient. The XR13 also has a bit more insulation to give it a minor 2db difference in sound. These three features wouldn't justify the ~$ difference, so I'm wondering if you guys would be able to help me understand the differences. As for the furnace, there's a ~$ difference between the XR80 and XL80. I'm less informed about the differences and benefits of one over the other in this front.

Also, given Trane = American Standard, I'm still open to it if the price difference is noticeable; however, I can't seem to find the exact answers I'm looking for as far as actual differences. Given the lower-end models I'm selecting, would the comparable AS models offer the same warranty? Also, I've read and have been told Trane and AS comparable units are the exact same thing with the same model # sans the brand in its nomenclature. One contractor though, has told me AS does use slightly inferior parts in its units.

Overall, I'd love to hear any thoughts or suggestions in regards to the Trane models I've inquired about and the American Standard equivalents, if the cost difference justifies any differences in warranty and "parts quality." Thank you, and I'd really appreciate any input to help me make my final decision this week. ]]> AOP Residential HVAC AlX Boi http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?1335711-Trane-AC-furnace-model-selection http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?1335701-Munchkin-boiler-8-pulse-fault-code&goto=newpost Wed, 19 Jun 2013 03:05:56 GMT A lady from our church had a munchkin model #80m boiler put in 12 years ago. She said it has had the same problem since day 1. System tries to fire... A lady from our church had a munchkin model #80m boiler put in 12 years ago. She said it has had the same problem since day 1. System tries to fire but then locks out on 8 pulse code: air press. switch fault/stuck closed. I have not worked on boilers but told her I would look in case something obvious. When I got there, she handed me two press. switches that had previously been replaced by boiler experts. Both were still good! The induced draft blower had been replaced, the vents were checked for blockage, serviced annually. The experts told her they just don't know anymore. I noticed some burned off resistors on the board and the customer said they had a power outtage and he had to reset the breaker and heard a "pop." He says the only thing that hasn't been replaced is the board. The board is a problem but maybe not necessarily the problem because he said it has had the same fault code for a long time before the power outtage. The current press. switch is closing once the inducer kicks on but at what in. wc. I don't know. The customer says if he resets the service switch and then puts his finger over the negative side of the press. switch, the boiler does fire until the next heating cycle. I'm not a "parts changer" type, I've been in the field for 10 yrs. and a tech for maybe 4, but no boiler background, I'm just trying to help out with all their frustration with past experts. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank You- ]]> AOP Residential HVAC hvac/airplanes http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?1335701-Munchkin-boiler-8-pulse-fault-code http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?1335531-York-Aspen-Coil-Failure-from-2009-Install-HELP!&goto=newpost Wed, 19 Jun 2013 00:44:45 GMT I spent a lot of time on this forum back in 2009 while I tried to get a duel fuel HP system that would handle our large house AND meet the Federal... I spent a lot of time on this forum back in 2009 while I tried to get a duel fuel HP system that would handle our large house AND meet the Federal Energy Tax Credit requirements. Finally found a York SEER 18 HP with NG furnace Got it installed in July 2009. The system is: a 2-speed compressor York Affinity YZH04811C dual fuel HP with a natural gas, variable speed YP8C10020MP11 NG furnace/air handler and a large matching 10-year warranty, Model MD-CC60E44-245L-036 Aspen coil.

The vent temps were warm this spring (and maybe even sooner) so I measured them at around 74 degrees for 3 dispersed vents and a temp at the HP fan of only 93 (seems like it should have been much hotter in hot weather). Since both the original contractor had retired and even the York distributor in business for decades went out of business. Long story short, after hours of time and lots of nitrogen, etc. the new contractor isolated the problem to the Aspen coil and the system had already lost over 1/2 of the required 13 pounds of 410A coolant. I am looking at diagnostic time/materials, remove/install coil, recharge system and test of close to $ and that is not definite since the contractor is leery of the large coil and the working space, as well as, locating the new coil.

Aspen has offered only to let the contractor find an OEM coil at a supply house that they finally agreed on. Since this is a high-efficiency system and coil I am very concerned that just any coil will not match. The duel fuel system and original Aspen coil meet the tax credit under ARI Reference# 3227959. Trouble is that Aspen does not make that coil any longer. I am NOT an expert but I went to the AHRI Certification Directory and found ARI Reference# 4581661 that seems to meet the requirements. I have been insisting that Aspen state the certification that is required. Is this a correct position?

I also feel that I have been made a fool of if I pay the kind of costs that were caused by their failed coil in only 4 years. To be more accurate, the first winter I hardly used the HP because York had a HP controller board problem on this new system that took that long to diagnose and correct. Also, this last winter I ran the system mostly on NG because the location of the tstat in a sun-drenched room caused it to be happy and some other bedrooms to be cold. With the son and his family there it was unacceptable to run the HP until I finally, using this forum, identified appropriate remote temp sensors for the excellent Honeywell VisionPro tstat and figured out how to install just 2 of them. So this coil hasn't even realistically been used anywhere near 4 years. What are your thoughts on me getting Aspen to cover much more than a suitable coil and maybe $50 to me and the new supply house and what percentage of the cost is realistic to get them to pay (I am going for 100% as my starting position, but having a real problem getting them to talk to me, even to specify an exact coil)?

I would much appreciate expert opinions and advice on this difficult issue. The house is hotter than .... and the progress seems very slow. Thank you for your help. ]]> AOP Residential HVAC jerryd_2008 http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?1335531-York-Aspen-Coil-Failure-from-2009-Install-HELP! http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?1335381-NEW-CONSTRUCTION-Acceptable-cooling-temps-in-Texas&goto=newpost Tue, 18 Jun 2013 22:26:48 GMT Hello. Throughout our build process this forum has been a great help. We are at the final stage of our construction in deep South Texas and I have... Hello. Throughout our build process this forum has been a great help. We are at the final stage of our construction in deep South Texas and I have a question regarding acceptable standards. We have a 5000 sq foot (living) single story home with very very high ceilings throughout. The construction is 2 inch concrete block covered by stucco and open cell foam spray throughout for insulation. Windows are relatively large though few and small only on the south facing side of the home. The home has three units consisting of a 5 ton and two 3 ton units.

What is the acceptable temperature low for a home in this environment (average 100 degree day)? In other words, should the home be able to cool to 72 degrees, 76 degrees, etc? ]]> AOP Residential HVAC BAVE http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?1335381-NEW-CONSTRUCTION-Acceptable-cooling-temps-in-Texas http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?1335241-Blower-Motor-Bad&goto=newpost Tue, 18 Jun 2013 20:42:18 GMT Hi everyone, I have a Carrier/Bryant air conditioning unit model 566dj024, which is seriously old. It is in my condo, and I only plan on owning... Hi everyone,
I have a Carrier/Bryant air conditioning unit model 566dj024, which is seriously old. It is in my condo, and I only plan on owning it for another year or two, so I don't want to shell out, nor do I have the cash for a new unit.

The HVAC technician told me the blower motor is bad, which I don't deny, but it occasionally works. My AC was blowing warm when the motor didn't kick on, and when it does kick on, it blows very cold, all I do is hit the blower motor with a hammer and it kicks on :deadhorse: . Problem is, they are wanting $ for the motor and another $ for installation. The motor is a Bryant GE Genteq Double Shafted Furnace BLOWER MOTOR 208-230v (5KCP39FGG015AS), which I can pick up online for less than $. I also understand they need to get paid to pay for all costs, but in todays world, we need to save where we can.

So, is the motor necessarily bad, or would it being very dirty inside be a reason, or a loose wire? I'm OK to replace it, but if it is something that might mended, I'd rather do that for now. Thanks for your help! ]]> AOP Residential HVAC senao http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?1335241-Blower-Motor-Bad http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?1335161-AC-unit-does-not-stay-running&goto=newpost Tue, 18 Jun 2013 18:35:31 GMT Hello all, I have a Bryant AC Unit Model #597CN042-A that is around 15 years old. Just this year, I have had issues with it not staying running. What... Hello all, I have a Bryant AC Unit Model #597CN042-A that is around 15 years old. Just this year, I have had issues with it not staying running. What happens is that, after 10 minutes or so of continuous running, the outside unit turns off, both the fan and compressor. After delving a little more into the electronics side of it, I found that the contactor drops out, but pushing it back in causes the unit to start back up. Thinking that it might be an issue, I replaced the contactor with a brand new one, however the same problem persists. When the AC unit stopped running, I checked to see if the main lines coming into the AC unit have the correct voltage drop across them, and they do (220 - 230 VAC). Then, I checked to see if there was any voltage drop across the coil of the contactor, and there was not (should see 24 VAC). I then checked to see if the call for cooling was coming in from the lines leading to the thermostat, and there was 24 VAC across those lines. With this in mind, I believe that it may be a few other things, but am not sure. I am leaning towards either the fan overheating, too little R22 in the system, or the high pressure cutoff switch on the compressor itself. Based on what I found out so far, I don't believe it to be the main capacitor as the unit does start up initially. I should point out also that if I let the AC unit sit for a period of time it will start back up, but then shut down about 10 minutes later. I am trying to resolve the problem myself so as not to shell out a fortune to a qualified HVAC technician, but in worse case scenario then I'll do what I have to do then. Any suggestions as to what I should try next would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. ]]> AOP Residential HVAC swampdoggy http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?1335161-AC-unit-does-not-stay-running http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?1335101-Ducts-Constantly-Pop&goto=newpost Tue, 18 Jun 2013 17:27:18 GMT I live in a mobile home. My bedroom is next to the a/c unit. From the unit to the register is about 15 feet. When the heat OR a/c cuts off, this... I live in a mobile home. My bedroom is next to the a/c unit. From the unit to the register is about 15 feet. When the heat OR a/c cuts off, this section of the ducts will pop and pop over and over. It is constant and never stops until the unit kicks back on again. I have been told that this is normal expansion and contraction. I have also been told by at least 3 different hvac technicians that nothing can be done. They tell me that working on mobile home ducts is usually a futile endeavor. They say it will make matters worse. I had one tech turn down the fan. That didn't help. I even requested a bid to run all new ductwork underneath. They say because of the nature of mobile homes, this wouldn't work. They said I wouldn't be happy with it because the "critters" would get into it. They could run it above the insulation, but that the insulation would have to be torn out and then new insulation would have to be put up. So far my two options are move out (I just paid $30,000 for this house brand new), or get window units. I'm not sure what to do, but I am at my wit's end. What would you guys do if you were trying to sleep in your bedroom at night but couldn't because it sounded like there were moles with hammers under your floor? ]]> AOP Residential HVAC rockncountry101 http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?1335101-Ducts-Constantly-Pop http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?1335011-Goodman-5-ton-unit-2-years-old-new-coil-needed&goto=newpost Tue, 18 Jun 2013 15:13:54 GMT I'll try to give as much description to see if I can get some guidance before I fork over a lot of money.

We moved into our house 2 years ago this week near Charlotte, NC. We needed a new a/c unit, didn't know a good company in our new area and wen't off a recommendation from a neighbor. Our house is 2500 sq ft. 2000ft main floor, 500sq ft bonus above the garage that was horrifically insulated. They put in a new Goodman 5-ton gas pack, which we've been told since that we possibly have an oversized unit for the house. The guy that put it in was pretty flaky and unreliable, so we didn't want to deal with him moving forward. Things were working ok after install.

3 months ago we decided to get the system separated into 2 zones so we could actually start using the bonus room after fixing the insulation issues. We wanted bonus could be cooled separately since it wasn't getting cooled completely on one zone(would stay 15 degrees hotter last summer than downstairs), and the new company redid a lot of the ductwork under the house as they said it was all undersized for the unit...from 16" to 18" flex. Everything was working great.

Just last week we had no air. Thermostat showed the unit trying to kick on with the green light, but no air flow. Same thing upstairs. Turned off a/c and just turned the recirc fan on, no air flow. Went outside, saw a stream of water coming out of the pipe, condensation all on one side of the unit, sounded like some sort of motor was on, but the fan you can see from the top of the unit was not on. Figured it froze up and thought maybe we caused it because it was the first really hotter week of the year( in the 90's) and we didn't have the zone on upstairs so the 5 ton unit was trying to cool only 2000 sq ft. (don't know if I'm way off on thinking that). Few hours later tried it again after all water dried up outside and condensation was gone. A/C turned on, house read 84 degrees and was only able to cool the house to 81 degrees over 3 hrs, and it was about 85 degrees outside that day.

A/C company came out, was here for 1 hour and came in to tell me we were low on freon. He had to add 4 lbs of it...our unit holds 11 lbs according to the tag on the unit. He did a sniff test, nothing. He did a bubble test, nothing. Said he reached his hand in as far as he could under the unit where there was liquid and got a oily residue on his fingers. Said when freon leaks it creates an oily residue so we've got a leaky coil, need a new one, or better yet, cut our losses with a Goodman as they always have problems and get a better unit. We will NOT be doing that as we've put way too much money into getting the new unit and splitting the zones. Coil itself should be covered under warranty but he said it would probably take 2 guys about a half day to replace it because of the way Goodmans are constructed...have to tear everything apart to get to the coil.

Does this sound right? Will it always be the coil just because he got an oily residue? He did two tests and came back with nothing, just the residue. So he didn't physically SEE where the leak was coming from. Could it be coming from somewhere else? We don't know if we should take a wait and see approach to see if it's leaking really bad or not. 4 lbs is a lot, I know but knowing how flaky our installer was we're now wondering if he even fully charged it when he installed it 2 years ago. I will say that now that 4 lbs has been added, this is the coldest air I've ever felt coming out of the registers. Put our thermometer over one register yesterday and it read 60 degree coolness coming out when we keep the thermostat set at 78.

Working to find a reputable company to get a second opinion, but wanted to check on here first for some guidance. I want to actually see where the problem is and make sure all of the proper tests are done so we're not left forking over lots of labor $$ if it might not be the coil. Thoughts?? Thanks! ]]> AOP Residential HVAC jillianoz15 http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?1335011-Goodman-5-ton-unit-2-years-old-new-coil-needed http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?1334921-Skinny-line-is-chilly-No-cooling-How-bad&goto=newpost Tue, 18 Jun 2013 12:06:29 GMT The outside skinny copper line is cold and gets condensation. I was told the fat line should be cold and the skinny should be hot. The outside unit... The outside skinny copper line is cold and gets condensation. I was told the fat line should be cold and the skinny should be hot. The outside unit starts, but I can hear it stop after a few minutes, but the fan keeps going. I called a place and they said it could be a filter somewhere or the compressor may have broken. I'd like some thoughts so I don't get taken to the cleaners. I don't see ice anywhere. Sounds like it might be expensive. ]]> AOP Residential HVAC cano http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?1334921-Skinny-line-is-chilly-No-cooling-How-bad http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?1334881-HELP-with-password-problem-Johnson-Controls-thermostat&goto=newpost Tue, 18 Jun 2013 10:05:12 GMT Hello all, I am a new homeowner. I bought my house in February and never messed with the thermostat because my home was comfortable for the... Hello all,

I am a new homeowner. I bought my house in February and never messed with the thermostat because my home was comfortable for the winter.

Well,

Here we are now in the summer in Virginia and I am unable to adjust my thermostat how I would like. Apparently it is password protected. I guess the previous owner installed this and then likely set a password to prevent his kids from messing with it or something. I don't know. What I know is that I am unable to adjust it down to where I want it. He has the cooling mode set to 78 degrees. I want to drop it down further. I have read that there is a way to access the installer functions and reprogram the parameters. The problem is that when I access the installer options it asks me for a password that I do not have!

How can I bypass or reset this password on my Johnson Controls T601DFH-4+PIR

Please help me. I do not want to replace my thermostat over a password issue nor can I justify hiring a HVAC person to come out just to adjust the temperature in my house.

Thanks
Joe ]]> AOP Residential HVAC homeowner23608 http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?1334881-HELP-with-password-problem-Johnson-Controls-thermostat