Air handler cleaning service....should I do it?

[jed1154]

I have a Lennox system. It is variable speed fan and a two speed compressor. Recently upon my annual inspection my tech said the handler fan blower was dirty and proceeded to sell me a package that involved him removing the blower to clean in. It also involved cleaning coils both inside and outside as well as calibrate the system and replace any capacitors or wire ends that were corroded or needed it. My system seems to work ok but the dirt on the fan I nasty. The system is 10 years old. My question is, should be be done as normal maintenance or is it unnecessary? I ask because it's quite expensive but have no problem with it if it's standard maintenance for unit and personal health.

[beenthere]

Pics of it would help. Depends how dirty it is, it may be well worth it or not.

[bmathews]

I think you said the fan was nasty. If it was pretty disgusting. Chances are you need the blower wheel and evaporator coil cleaned. If it's nasty enough and the motor is pretty clogged. You might be replacing it soon as well. Changing those $3 filters regularly would have prevented this from happening and saved a few $$$.

[jed1154]

Not sure what to say about the filters. This unit uses a box filter. Since I am a belt and suspenders kind of guy, the box filter has been changed religiously every 6-12 months, depending on how dirty it is. I ALSO install a cheap fiberglass filter in my air return every 30 days to catch the big stuff.

So...filters didn't seem to cause this. I have had a service contract on the unit since the day it was installed that included checking/replacing filters and coolant charge twice a year..once in the spring and once in the fall. I have animals, so I am usually the one that inspects the air handler filter between service visits to make sure it doesnt need an interim change. I was told it was perfectly normal for a 10 year old unit. Whether thats true or not, I don't know.

[second opinion]

Not sure what to say about the filters. This unit uses a box filter. Since I am a belt and suspenders kind of guy, the box filter has been changed religiously every 6-12 months, depending on how dirty it is. I ALSO install a cheap fiberglass filter in my air return every 30 days to catch the big stuff.

So...filters didn't seem to cause this.

Is it a mold growth? Can you post a picture?

[bmathews]

Not sure what to say about the filters. This unit uses a box filter. Since I am a belt and suspenders kind of guy, the box filter has been changed religiously every 6-12 months, depending on how dirty it is. I ALSO install a cheap fiberglass filter in my air return every 30 days to catch the big stuff.

So...filters didn't seem to cause this. I have had a service contract on the unit since the day it was installed that included checking/replacing filters and coolant charge twice a year..once in the spring and once in the fall. I have animals, so I am usually the one that inspects the air handler filter between service visits to make sure it doesnt need an interim change.

May not be as nasty as you think then. I've serviced units where I change the box filters on customers houses every 6 months. The stuff is spotless 10 years later. Post some pics.

[jed1154]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v197/jed1154/3bb1fa9c.jpg

[jed1154]

I hate to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but based on what I scientifically reasoned out in my head, and what you have told me, coupled with the fact that my cell phone has never taken that clear and good a picture in complete darkness, even with a light, it seems to me that perhaps a panel pull and visual inspection by the homeowner (me) is in order before scheduling and committing to it. :/

Cause that picture looks absolutely filthy. Now...I am not the original homeowner, but I DID transfer the warranty and service from the exact same company, and their records have shown that the service has been done twice a year every year because they supplied a warranty with this unit for 10 years that required it.

That's neither here nor there. If its that dirty I assume it's worth paying up and letting them clean it. However I'm a little concerned about dirt if you say it should be clean with filter changes.

[gasguy]

At that age with 'less than optimal' changes of cheap filters I see lots of units in about that condition. IF the filtration is as you say (2 filters, one a 4-5" pleated) and have been maintained as often as stated for the entire time, then you must have major return air leaks after the filter or air bypassing the filter. That amount of crud on the blower is probably cutting it's efficiency by about 30%, and if the blower looks like that the coil must be nasty too. Either way it needs cleaning. And my blackberry takes surprisingly good pictures at that range even in the dark.

[jed1154]

Fair enough. Shouldn't my tech make mention of leaks or something other than "it's totally normal for a 10 year unit, even with filter changes?"

Should I bring it up and ask them to look for leaks or something?

Either way, the service comes with a 1 year 'deal' where they come back and re-inspect to make sure its clean at that time. That should provide the answer.

I think you guys are on to something with the bypassing of the filter. I know the last time I checked the filter personally, they had slightly crushed it putting it in, which would create a less than optimal seal (imagine a 'V' across the top), and since there isnt much of a filter in the return, judging by what it DOES collect, there is a lot to make it past and be deposited on the blower and then coil. Ill have him clean it up and the coils.

There is not much that can leak 'after the box filter' in this unit that would not be glaringly obvious to a novice tech. I mean, the blower is just about right next to the filter in a giant metal box, so the air must be bypassing it from poor installation. I have cats and dogs inside, and while my place is vacuumed twice a week, that little fiberglass filter is caked after a month of service. Before freaking out, Ill let them clean it, and get my free re-evaluation after a year from them. If its clean at that time, then its probably safe to assume it was poor maintenance sometime during the period I was not the owner...which was most of its life.

[jed1154]

I crawled up and took a look. Sheesh...the pics the tech sent and I posted here look BETTER than it does in person...pretty gross. Coil...however, is shiny clean...wierd.

The screw holes are rusted out on the access panels, so they don't all hold tight. I am more than certain that this is where the post filter air leaks are coming from. There is no other place for it to leak.

I will see if the tech can re-drill holes so it sets tight. Thanks folks.:cheers:

[motoguy128]

May not be as nasty as you think then. I've serviced units where I change the box filters on customers houses every 6 months. The stuff is spotless 10 years later. Post some pics.

taht's what I was thinking. Heck, the 8 year old unit in my attic has all sorts of leaks in th return and the blower didn't look too bad when I checked it out just after I moved in. Now the ID fan... that's might be different. It's piped inside the attic. I guess a co-axial pipe was too expensive of an option. :gah:

[motoguy128]

I crawled up and took a look. Sheesh...the pics the tech sent and I posted here look BETTER than it does in person...pretty gross. Coil...however, is shiny clean...wierd.

The screw holes are rusted out on the access panels, so they don't all hold tight. I am more than certain that this is where the post filter air leaks are coming from. There is no other place for it to leak.

I will see if the tech can re-drill holes so it sets tight. Thanks folks.:cheers:

Just using larger sheetmetal screws might work too.

[jed1154]

Ill just mention it being not air tight and let him pick the best solution. Even with good tight screws, its not TOTALLY airtight, there is not 'packing' or anything, but it will be better than it is now and fit the way it was designed...and that's all I can really expect.

[SBKold]

The mold growth you see on the blower wheel/cabinet are not from air leaks IMO. The buildup is basically mold pure and simple. It grew there it was not deposited there IMO.

This is quite typical where I am in Florida. Especially with animals in the home. Any kind of bilological material will act as food for the mold and you will see the accelerated growth on the cold side of the coil. The material is the pet dander in your case.

Your filtration setup does seem better than typical with the media cleaner under unit. Small amounts of microscopic dander still seem to be making it through.

What you need are properly installed UV lights in the blower section and probably supply duct as well. I bet if you could see inside supply duct there would also be significant growth.

UV lights, however are a science all their own - Properly installing one and maintaining it. UV lights break down a variety of duct materials, wire insulation, etc....

[jed1154]

Interesting you mention that. My tech has mentioned it on occasion. Of course, when this unit was installed, it was not standard OP for my installer, he said that when they install new units now, they automatically install the UV lighting to kill mold growth in various parts of the system. This unit is rusted all to heck, wire terminations are starting to corrode and rust and they tell me it has months or a couple years left at best.....so, based on that, Im not doing anything but maintaining it because I may be replacing it sooner rather than later. If it had 10 years left, that would be different. I will remember that comment though about the UV light.

My supply duct is primarily 'framing' I can't see inside of that, however, the intake cavity seems to be pretty clean. I think the mold growth is there because of the moisture coupled with minute traces of dirt. The Coils don't show to be dirty, so they were either cleaned recently or they don't get dirty because water is dripping off of them all the time. Im going to have it all cleaned up though and go clean the newly deposited dust from my registers.

[tinknocker service tech]

form the looks of the blower shaft i would reccomend you have him order a motor for your unit before he pulls it apart
a uv light as has been said would be in order also
place3d between the blower and the coil imo
as was siad looks like mold build up see it alot

[jed1154]

I'll loan the tech a wire brush. :P

The unit is not covered under warranty any longer. I'm going to replace as needed. If she gives up the ghost next week, it won't be terribly surprising. It has already required a new compressor, outside fan motor, various service calls that may have been related to the parts listed above before they were replaced, and expansion valve.

But I agree, the shaft looks pretty sad. :(

[Cooked]

.............I was told it was perfectly normal for a 10 year old unit. Whether thats true or not, I don't know.

Not necessarily true. I've seen 30 year old systems that didn't need cleaning and I've seen 2 year old system with 80% air blockage because of pet hair, grime and grease from the kitchen. It really depends on the quality/cleanliness of the air in the structure.

If it's really dirty, pay the man, it will be well worth it. If it's not, then.....ummmm.......plan B

[jed1154]

Oh, im certainly going to pay them to clean it. I want a good baseline. I have no REAL idea of how it was maintained before and I have a lot of pets.

[jed1154]

This unit services my downstairs of about 2400 sq ft. I have three cats and three dogs. Is there anything I can do to prevent this in the future besides getting rid of the animals, wife and children?

Obviously I'm going to tighten up the panels on the unit. I can change my box filter twice a year I suppose. Anything else I can do as a homeowner or do I just have to clean the unit every so often?

[beenthere]

Ask them why none of them noticed this before during any of the check ups.

[JWB]

Buy a UV light and have it transferred to your new unit. I would buy a blower wheel cleaning and skip the whole package deal unless the price is similiar. Why repair every little thing that he can find wrong when you are making plans to replace? If you are planning on replacing, have that priced out if you are anywhere near ready. Depending geographically where you are the co. may be slow enough to offer you a steep discount.

[jed1154]

Ill ask them why they did not notice it, but the panel that must be removed to see that blower is different from the one that they usually check that houses the coil. Im going to ask.

As for replacing, well, the price of that quote was about the same as a brand new low end car....seriously. Maybe thats the going price for a two stage, zoned, var speed unit, but it was very high. I'm going to shop around and then start negotiating when the time comes.

[jed1154]

Can we ask about reputable companies on this board, like recommendations?

What about research for new AC units...as in "i am considering brand X, model Y, are these reliable or not?"

[beenthere]

You can use our Contractor locator map.

[Cooked]

.......What about research for new AC units...as in "i am considering brand X, model Y, are these reliable or not?"

I'm not a moderator but I'd say of course you can ask about brand x vs brand y. Thousands of people ask those questions here.

[chuckcrj]

Ask them why none of them noticed this before during any of the check ups.

That is what I was wondering!!

No customer on a service/maintenance plan with our co. has a blower that looks that bad, it gets cleaned long before it reaches that point.

[catmanacman]

I'm thinking what does you annual inspection cover ,as if you have a maintenance agreement with us we clean the coils as part of the maintenance we do charge to pull and clean the blower

[jed1154]

It's inexpensive and give me free tuneups. It gives me a discount on repair parts but mostly it puts me at the top of the list for repairs in 24 hours
Or less. No cool cleaning is part of it.

[jed1154]

I am having it cleaned now. They are telling me that I should NOT use the cheapest fiberglass filters downstairs because they aren't 'good enough'. Now, I use those because in the past, I was specifically told to use them because I had a huge box filter in the air handler that did the heavy filtering work and if I put anything other than a cheap fiberglass filter downstairs, it would restrict air flow and cause the unit to work harder.

Now, I dont want to argue with anyone about it, but I do want you guys opinion on what kind of filter I should use in my air return knowing I have a 50 (or whatever it costs) dollar box filter installed in the unit itself.

After looking at it more closely, they believe its the black 'batting' inside the unit there that is becoming brittle and falling onto and into the blower fan. It looks liek black insulation or sound deadening material...you guys know what it is I think...it looks like fiberglass but I dont know if it is. He said he could remove it out of the unit...which I declined. I feel its supposed to be there for a reason, and Lennox likes it there.

So...I was told to use a 'middle of the line' NON pleated filter downstairs. I have no idea what that really means.

But, what is yall's opinion on this? I do understand that all techs are different and everyone has different levels of experience and thus recommendations, and I have no problem with that. So, what say you....if not a cheap fiberglass filter in combination with my box filter...then what?

[beenthere]

If you have a 4" media filter at the unit. You don't want to use anything but those see through fiberglass filters at the filter grille. Anything better, will hurt your return air.

[t527ed]

If you have a 4" media filter at the unit. You don't want to use anything but those see through fiberglass filters at the filter grille. Anything better, will hurt your return air.

:ditto:

too much filter is bad.

i have been selling and servicing Lennox for a long time, never saw the insulation break down and cause whats in your picture.

[jed1154]

The black insulation on the top and bottom of where the blower sits was brittle and broke all to pieces when he tried to clean it. ??????

[beenthere]

Needs to be replaced.

[jed1154]

Ill have to specifically ask them to replace it then. He didn't know IF it could be replaced or who would have it, nor did he make a suggestion that it should be replaced. Ill inquire further.

[second opinion]

I am having it cleaned now. They are telling me that I should NOT use the cheapest fiberglass filters downstairs because they aren't 'good enough'. Now, I use those because in the past, I was specifically told to use them because I had a huge box filter in the air handler that did the heavy filtering work and if I put anything other than a cheap fiberglass filter downstairs, it would restrict air flow and cause the unit to work harder.

Now, I dont want to argue with anyone about it, but I do want you guys opinion on what kind of filter I should use in my air return knowing I have a 50 (or whatever it costs) dollar box filter installed in the unit itself.

After looking at it more closely, they believe its the black 'batting' inside the unit there that is becoming brittle and falling onto and into the blower fan. It looks liek black insulation or sound deadening material...you guys know what it is I think...it looks like fiberglass but I dont know if it is. He said he could remove it out of the unit...which I declined. I feel its supposed to be there for a reason, and Lennox likes it there.

So...I was told to use a 'middle of the line' NON pleated filter downstairs. I have no idea what that really means.

But, what is yall's opinion on this? I do understand that all techs are different and everyone has different levels of experience and thus recommendations, and I have no problem with that. So, what say you....if not a cheap fiberglass filter in combination with my box filter...then what?

As others have stated,"you do not need additional filters installed in your system.

Each time you ad something to the airstream, you are adding restrictions to the airflow that is more than likely over restrictive as is without any filter installed.