Trane XL15i or Carrier Performance 16?

[wakko]

So my dilema is a single stage 3.5 ton Trane XL15i heat pump or going with a 4.0 ton Carrier Performance 16 2-stage heat pump. the cost is $ more for the XL15i. with that being said what would the pros recommend? Dealer ran a heat load is heavily influenced that the Infinity line has major problems and seems unwilling to install a 25vna for about $ more.

Major pros and cons are:

XL15i
Trane XL15i, Variable Speed Air Handler, 3.5 Ton Single Stage Heat Pump, 15.25 SEER, 12.5 EER, 9.2 HSPF, 44,000 Btuh, R-410a, AHRI 4385470 Heat Pump Model: 4TWX5042A1000A, Air Handler Model: TAM7A0C48H41SA, Heat Kit Model: BAYEVAC10LG1AA

Pros
demand defrost
Cons
single stage

Carrier Performance
Carrier Performance Series, Variable Speed Fan Coil, 4 Ton Two Stage Heat Pump, 16 SEER, 12.5 EER, 9.1 HSPF, 47,000 Btuh, R-410a, AHRI 3494362 Heat Pump Model: 25HCB648A-3, Fan Coil Model: FV4CNF005T, Heat Kit Model: KFCEH3001F15

Pros
2-stage comfort
Cons
timed defrost

with that being said, what would you pros recommend?

they also had the XR15 for about the same cost as the performance.
Trane XR15, Variable Speed Air Handler, 3.5 Ton Single Stage Heat Pump, 15.25 SEER, 12.5 EER, 9.0 HSPF, 44,000 Btuh, R-410a, AHRI 4385454 Heat Pump Model: 4TWR5042E1000A, Air Handler Model: TAM7A0C48H41SA, Heat Kit Model: BAYEVAC10LG1AA

[tigerdunes]

wakko

Both nice systems.

I would want the heat strip staged regardless whether Trane or Carrier.

In situations like yours, these would be the deciding factors for me.

1. Any ductwork modifications required going to the larger two stg Carrier system?

2. Difference in cost?

3. What about the lineset-both dealers providing new?

4. Which dealer gives you the most confidence?

5. Both plan on adding a downstairs return?

IMO

[wakko]

How do you stage the heat strip? is it just a modification on the thermostat or is it a different part altogether?

1. Any ductwork modifications required going to the larger two stg Carrier system?

original was a single stage 4 ton system. no additional ductwork modifications except for sealing. and i think i may do the sealing through a different company.

2. Difference in cost?

About $XXX more for the XL15i than the carrier Performance, and the XR15 is a little more than the Performance.

3. What about the lineset-both dealers providing new?

using existing lineset which is not puron and flushing the system. willing to do new ones but run it outside down the back of the house which i did not prefer.

4. Which dealer gives you the most confidence?

feel comfortable with this dealer as opposed to others i've dealt with. also has the best pricing.

5. Both plan on adding a downstairs return?

same dealer for all systems. yes i'm getting the return downstairs, its going to be directly under the closet where the air handler sits.

[tigerdunes]

Wakko

As far line set size, this is no insignificant detail to overlook or disregard.

Two questions.

What size do you have now?

What size is recommended for the 4 ton Carrier Performance 16 and for the 3 1/2 ton XL15i?

And the answers to above would influence me on your selection.

What thermostats were quoted for each system?

On the Trane, I would want the HW VP IAQ or Trane 803 and the Carrier, their Edge thermidistat.

Getting back to the staging on heat strips, there are several methods to accomplish this. There are prewired kits available in the marketplace. Without going into detail, ask dealer about this and his experience in this area.

IMO

[wakko]

What size do you have now?
- Trane XE1000 4 ton system

What size is recommended for the 4 ton Carrier Performance 16 and for the 3 1/2 ton XL15i?

- His heatload was calling for about 40.3k btu's and he was recommending a 4 ton system for both the single stage and 2-stage equipment. mostly due to the heating element calling for more and not wanting me to pay more in heating. i mentioned to him we're ok with portable heaters and putting on an extra sweater and to provide me with 3.5 ton quotes for single stage equipment.

Thermostats
Trane - TCONT803, he did mention the prestige but didn't think it was necessary for me. I can most certainly ask him for the VP IAQ, but wanted to know what the difference is between the 803 and the IAQ i thought they were identical?

Carrier - it was some honeywell 6xxx series. he did not mention the edge thermostat at all. but the contractor was flexible and if wanted i don't think he'd have a problem with trying to get me an edge t-stat

[tigerdunes]

Wakko

You misunderstood or I did not make myself clear.

I was asking about lineset size not condenser size.

Post back

IMO

[wakko]

Sorry i misunderstood the lineset question.

I'm thinking it's approximately 60 ft. 10ft/each floor + 15-20 ft to the closet +10-20 ft miscellaneous. so approximately 50-60ft?

i do not know off the top of my head what it is. contractor is on vacation, but i did find this online.

Carrier units are supposed to be 3/8"
Maximum Liquid Line Diameters (In. OD) =3/8"
then they have a bunch of numbers ranging from 3/4", 7/8", 1 1/8" for the Vapor Line Diameters (In.) OD
http://www.docs.hvacpartners.com/idc/groups/public/documents/techlit/25hcb6-1pd.pdf

Trane are supposed to be 7/8 and 3/8
http://www.butcherdistributors.com/Images/Interior/2twx5.pdf

not too sure if i'm reading it correctly? if i wanted to measure it, would i just measure the diameter of the copper wire?

[SoFlaDave]

IMO the Trane XR 15 is a better value minus the extra 2 yr. warranty on the XL compressor. I agree with Tiger on the Trane 803 or Honeywell Vision Pro IAQ as great options for t-stats. I despise the Edge Thermidistat and pretty much every Thermidistat before it. The 803/IAQ stats are much more intuitive IMO.

And regardless of any rollout model glitches with the Trane Hyperion airhandlers they are MILES ahead of anything Carrier or anyone else has to offer on the airside of the system just for the all aluminum evap coil/electronic expansion valve alone. The design seems to have been perfected at this point.

[tigerdunes]

Wakko

Based on your statement, you are planning to reuse existing lineset.

I would verify with quoting dealer the following:

1. Size of existing lineset
2. Mfg spec for lineset 3 1/2 ton XL15i
3. Mfg spec for lineset for 4 ton Performance 16

Whichever best matches existing would lean heavy on my system choice.

IMO