HP runs even when Heat At point is reached

[goddi]

Greetings,
I have an Infinity T-stat. When the 'Heat At' temp is set to 69 and the 'Actual' temp is 69, the HP continues to run for a long time....hour or more. Also, during this time, it switches from Low Stage to High Stage and back to Low Stage, with no changes in the the Heat At or Actual temps. Why does it not shut off when the Actual temp matches the Heat At temp?

Also, when the Heat At temp is set to '69', is it set at 69.1, .2, .3... .9? And if the Actual temp reads as '69', is it 69.1, .2, .3... .9?

Thanks... Gary

[S.T.Ranger]

Greetings,
I have an Infinity T-stat. When the 'Heat At' temp is set to 69 and the 'Actual' temp is 69, the HP continues to run for a long time....hour or more. Also, during this time, it switches from Low Stage to High Stage and back to Low Stage, with no changes in the the Heat At or Actual temps. Why does it not shut off when the Actual temp matches the Heat At temp?

Also, when the Heat At temp is set to '69', is it set at 69.1, .2, .3... .9? And if the Actual temp reads as '69', is it 69.1, .2, .3... .9?

Thanks... Gary



Check the actual temp on the stat with a separate, reliable thermostat, try increasing the heat a degree or two. Had a customer the other day that was running at about 72, with an actual indoor temp of 68. When she increased the stat to 74 (old mercury, so different scenario), indoor reached 73, with less difference between the setpoint and actual indoor temp. I have a suspicion some digital stats will act like this sometimes.

Some stats are just weird.

Are you in the trade, or a homeowner?

[goddi]

Check the actual temp on the stat with a separate, reliable thermostat, try increasing the heat a degree or two. Had a customer the other day that was running at about 72, with an actual indoor temp of 68. When she increased the stat to 74 (old mercury, so different scenario), indoor reached 73, with less difference between the setpoint and actual indoor temp. I have a suspicion some digital stats will act like this sometimes.

Some stats are just weird.

Are you in the trade, or a homeowner?
=================================
Greetings,
I am a homeowner.
I have already replaced the Infinity T-stat once and there was no improvement. I find it difficult to find a thermostat with decimals but I will keep looking. But I don't think that is the problem. I am pretty annoyed wiith the Carrier Hybrid setup I have. I just has my 6-month service done today and made some changes to not have the Smart Recovery on. Though the Wake schedule starts at 7:00am, the system starts around 5:00am and goes through High Stage, then Low Stage, back to High Stage for 3 hours.... I'd rather it just come on and heat. I also set the lockout of the heat pump up 5 degrees (35 I think).

I am about to just change the system to not use the HP in the winter. Just makes too much noise that wakes me up. Also, the filter was 6 months old and the Left Button has been showing 0% for filter use for the past week. Put in a new filter and it jumped to 50 percent. What the heck is going on? Normally, it will jump around from 10%, to 40% to 20% to 80% to 20%, etc. Never show a steady progression. The Carrier techs don't know.

I plan to set the Carrier to only use the furnace for heat at the end of the year so I can do a better comparison on gas\electricity use over the next 12 months.
Gary

[Gross]

If the temperature doesnt rise above the temperature you set it to, the machine is doing what it is supposed to do.

[S.T.Ranger]

=================================
Greetings,
I am a homeowner.
I have already replaced the Infinity T-stat once and there was no improvement. I find it difficult to find a thermostat with decimals but I will keep looking.


Hello Gary. First, try calling honeywell directly, I am pretty sure they can direct you toward a stat like that, if it is available. As I said, the stats we use go by half degree increments, but it sounds like you're looking for something in tenths. I have no idea if they make that or not ( I like the stats we use, and try to keep things simple).

Second, if you could give the square footage this system is covering, as well as the size of the equipment, that would help.




But I don't think that is the problem. I am pretty annoyed wiith the Carrier Hybrid setup I have.


And that is something I am sure the installing contractor does not want, but sometimes, there can be situations that not only stump the tech, but tech support and manufacturer as well, so, be patient (as I am sure you have been).



I just has my 6-month service done today and made some changes to not have the Smart Recovery on.


Personally I think that is a move in the right direction.



Though the Wake schedule starts at 7:00am, the system starts around 5:00am and goes through High Stage, then Low Stage, back to High Stage for 3 hours.... I'd rather it just come on and heat. I also set the lockout of the heat pump up 5 degrees (35 I think).


How do you have this programmed, as far as wake, leave, return, and sleep.

When it comes to "saving money" by offsetting temps while you are away, and then asking the system to recover for a specified time, you may be asking a lot in certain applications.

How old is the house? Is it well insulated? Sometimes, in colder or higher temps, it may take a house longer to get back to desired temp than you might like.

Put your setpoint on one temp and leave it alone. Also, I have been told (and cannot verufy this) that when a stat gets moved around alot it is like throwing a stone in a pond, and you may have to wait for the "ripples" to settle (just heard this the other day, by the way). That aside, I recommend to all my customers to find a comfortable temp...and leave it. It may be that the programming schedule is contributing to the problem.



I am about to just change the system to not use the HP in the winter.


How far north are you?



Just makes too much noise that wakes me up.


I have found it true that in lower temps, sound can change on a system. Called about a "noise" on an outdoor, went over when the temp was about 40-45, and sure enough, kind of a whirring whining noise (the outdoor fan, not the customer...sorry, couldn't resist, my customer was about as nice as they get). I have had this on only two systems before, both on the same job, and was told to drop the blade down the shaft as far as it would go to see if that helped...it didn't. Despite reminding my rep about this not working the last time, he wanted me to try it on this one too. The other two had abot an inch of play, this one had none, it was as far down as it would go.

But, so that I could say, been there, done that, I went by when the temp was about 65, maybe. Fan was noiseless.

And I know that doesn't help much, but, wanted to throw it out there. The solution on my equipment was to change from the two-blade to a three-blade, and that helped.

And, what kind of noise are you hearing? This might be the biggest clue to the problem.




Also, the filter was 6 months old and the Left Button has been showing 0% for filter use for the past week. Put in a new filter and it jumped to 50 percent. What the heck is going on? Normally, it will jump around from 10%, to 40% to 20% to 80% to 20%, etc. Never show a steady progression. The Carrier techs don't know.


Not a Carrier dealer, so I will not comment on this problem, but don't think it has relevance to your operational problem. Unless it is just that the stat is bad, despite already being changed once. Possible the new may have come from the same batch.



I plan to set the Carrier to only use the furnace for heat at the end of the year so I can do a better comparison on gas\electricity use over the next 12 months.
Gary


If you are not in too cold of a climate, it would be a shame to have dual fuel and not benefit from it.

If you can supply answers to the questions above, I would like to know, thanks,

S.T.

[goddi]

If the temperature doesnt rise above the temperature you set it to, the machine is doing what it is supposed to do.

======================
Perhaps it is. However, I don't like the way it does it. For example, at 6:15 am, the 'Actual' temp and 'Heat At' both are at 69. However, it jumps around from HS to Aux to HS to LS for the next 48 minutes. Then turns off. 30 minutes later, it comes back on at LS for 11 minutes. Turns off. One minute later, it comes back on for 9 minutes at HS and goes from HS for 8 minutes and then to LS for 9 minutes, then off. I've got other examples that make no sense to me. This on and off and changing from HS to Aux to LS, etc. does not make good sense to me, especially when the Actual temp matches the Heat At temp. Maybe it does this to save money but the algorithms just must be too convoluted. When it does all these changes and both the Actual and Heat At temps are at 69 from start to finish, I can not see that it is the way it should be. I might not notice all of this but the change in noise operations in the different HP heat stages wake me up and I can't get back to sleep, because this starts early in the morning. But even discounting the noise, it still does not make sense that it does what it does.
Gary

[beshvac]

The infinity/evolution thermostat is awesome....let it do its thing. You might have defrosts working their way into your timings. It does not matter how long they run (I am assuming you have a 2 speed outdoor). The reason it shows 69 and is still running is because it controls the temp within 1/2 degree.

[Gross]

U bought the most complicated residential system controller On the market, this is how it works.

[goddi]

See response in bold below:


Hello Gary. First, try calling honeywell directly, I am pretty sure they can direct you toward a stat like that, if it is available. As I said, the stats we use go by half degree increments, but it sounds like you're looking for something in tenths. I have no idea if they make that or not ( I like the stats we use, and try to keep things simple).

Second, if you could give the square footage this system is covering, as well as the size of the equipment, that would help.
If I remember correctly, I've got the Infinity 16 HP, 5 ton; Infinity 80 Gas furnace-2stage. I think, excluding unheated basement, 1800 sq. ft.

And that is something I am sure the installing contractor does not want, but sometimes, there can be situations that not only stump the tech, but tech support and manufacturer as well, so, be patient (as I am sure you have been).

Personally I think that is a move in the right direction.
This morning, was the first time with the Smart Recovery off. The outside temp was warmer than usual so it was not a real good test but it did not go through all the shifting between HS, LS and Aux as it did before. I came on in LS and stayed there until it got to 69. As it gets colder, it will be interesting to see what it does.


How do you have this programmed, as far as wake, leave, return, and sleep.
Wake 7:00am-69; Day 7:15am-69; Evening 8:00pm-69; Sleep 10:30pm-66.

When it comes to "saving money" by offsetting temps while you are away, and then asking the system to recover for a specified time, you may be asking a lot in certain applications.

How old is the house? Is it well insulated? Sometimes, in colder or higher temps, it may take a house longer to get back to desired temp than you might like.
About 34 years old; very well insulated (new windows; extra insulation).

Put your setpoint on one temp and leave it alone. Also, I have been told (and cannot verufy this) that when a stat gets moved around alot it is like throwing a stone in a pond, and you may have to wait for the "ripples" to settle (just heard this the other day, by the way). That aside, I recommend to all my customers to find a comfortable temp...and leave it. It may be that the programming schedule is contributing to the problem.

How far north are you?
Northern VA.

I have found it true that in lower temps, sound can change on a system. Called about a "noise" on an outdoor, went over when the temp was about 40-45, and sure enough, kind of a whirring whining noise (the outdoor fan, not the customer...sorry, couldn't resist, my customer was about as nice as they get). I have had this on only two systems before, both on the same job, and was told to drop the blade down the shaft as far as it would go to see if that helped...it didn't. Despite reminding my rep about this not working the last time, he wanted me to try it on this one too. The other two had abot an inch of play, this one had none, it was as far down as it would go.

But, so that I could say, been there, done that, I went by when the temp was about 65, maybe. Fan was noiseless.

And I know that doesn't help much, but, wanted to throw it out there. The solution on my equipment was to change from the two-blade to a three-blade, and that helped.

And, what kind of noise are you hearing? This might be the biggest clue to the problem.

Hard to describe. Not a high pitch sound. Sounds more of laboring, slightly up and down sound. 'RUN, run, RUN, run, RUN, run', etc.


Not a Carrier dealer, so I will not comment on this problem, but don't think it has relevance to your operational problem. Unless it is just that the stat is bad, despite already being changed once. Possible the new may have come from the same batch.

If you are not in too cold of a climate, it would be a shame to have dual fuel and not benefit from it.

Yes, but my curiosity will get the best of me. I can always set it back.

If you can supply answers to the questions above, I would like to know, thanks,

S.T.

Gary

[goddi]

The infinity/evolution thermostat is awesome....let it do its thing. You might have defrosts working their way into your timings. It does not matter how long they run (I am assuming you have a 2 speed outdoor). The reason it shows 69 and is still running is because it controls the temp within 1/2 degree.
====================
When you set the Heat AT temp to 69, what exactly is it set to? Is it 69.0, 69.1, 69.2....69.9? If it controls the temp within 1/2 degree, I don't understand why, when the Heat At temp is set to 69 and the Actual temp is 69, the HP can run for an hour or so or more before it shuts off. I can't believe it is running that long and not reaching that 1/2 degree point to shut off in a shorter length of time.
Gary

[motoguy128]

You sure it's a 5 TON? Holy cow, a 5 ton on a 1800sqft home! You either have zero insulation, livor they put a really big system in. I now understand whay it's so noisy and wakes you up. It's probably oversized. Most 1800sqft homes need between a 2.5ton and a 4 ton system in most climates.

Undersized ductwork also might explain to odd behavior of the filter monitor.

Infinity system are amazing things. But if installed incorrectly or oversized, they will not perform as they should.

I had a local contractor talking down Infinity systems and saying how he's taken several out because the owners weren't happy and put in conventional Trane systems. I learned the hard way that he does sloppy installs and oversizes equipment. Actually, his poor quality work is what brought me to this site and got me more insterested in HVAC.

My inlaws have a Infinity 20 AC with a ICS furnace. Its' sweet! Never even notice it's running maintains humidity and temperature within 0.5F and 5% RH year round. They set it and forget it.

[S.T.Ranger]

See response in bold below:

Hello Gary. First, try calling honeywell directly, I am pretty sure they can direct you toward a stat like that, if it is available. As I said, the stats we use go by half degree increments, but it sounds like you're looking for something in tenths. I have no idea if they make that or not ( I like the stats we use, and try to keep things simple).

Second, if you could give the square footage this system is covering, as well as the size of the equipment, that would help.


If I remember correctly, I've got the Infinity 16 HP, 5 ton; Infinity 80 Gas furnace-2stage. I think, excluding unheated basement, 1800 sq. ft.


Perhaps it was sized to accomodate finishing off the basement in the future?

It might be a good idea to verify size of outdoor unit, i.e., if it is a 5 ton, you should should see a 60 or thereabouts on it. Ratings will be in 12s (12,000 per ton...2 ton 24/2 1/2 ton 30, etc., though I am sure you know this).






Personally I think that is a move in the right direction.


This morning, was the first time with the Smart Recovery off. The outside temp was warmer than usual so it was not a real good test but it did not go through all the shifting between HS, LS and Aux as it did before. I came on in LS and stayed there until it got to 69. As it gets colder, it will be interesting to see what it does.



So it reacted differently this morning? I haven't looked, but I don't think temps were that different in the last few days, were they?




How do you have this programmed, as far as wake, leave, return, and sleep.
Wake 7:00am-69; Day 7:15am-69; Evening 8:00pm-69; Sleep 10:30pm-66.


Personally, I think this is too much of an offset. You are asking your system to recover three degrees, and another tech said this stat works in 1/2 degree increments, so the potential offset by the time the schedule changes could be 3 1/2 to four degrees.

Some houses take longer than others to satisfy, and this may be the case with yours. As a test, for a couple days set the programming to one temp, and note the performance, and see if it doesn't change the "symptoms" you are noticing.





How old is the house? Is it well insulated? Sometimes, in colder or higher temps, it may take a house longer to get back to desired temp than you might like.


About 34 years old; very well insulated (new windows; extra insulation).


That doesn't mean that the house is as tight as you might think. I would also be curious if this is a rancher or a two-story.







How far north are you?



Northern VA.


Okay, not too far north, though there can be an incredible difference between there and central Va. sometimes. In the mountains? On average there is about a ten degree difference between them and where I am, even moving directly west.

But really, there is no reason dual-fuel shouldn't work for you.





And, what kind of noise are you hearing? This might be the biggest clue to the problem.

Hard to describe. Not a high pitch sound. Sounds more of laboring, slightly up and down sound. 'RUN, run, RUN, run, RUN, run', etc.


I am hesitant to second-guess your servicer's ability, do you use the same person regularly?







If you are not in too cold of a climate, it would be a shame to have dual fuel and not benefit from it.

Yes, but my curiosity will get the best of me. I can always set it back.



Gary



True, but before doing that, set the temp on one setting, see how it reacts. It may be (and usually is) better that way, allowing the system to remain constant.

I think you said it would run through stages (aux./2nd/1st) in the morning, so my advice would be a constant setpoint, and then go from there.

S.T.

[goddi]

Opppsss.. I gave the wrong sq ft. Actually, it is about 2600 sq ft., not counting the basement that is not being heated. The house is very well insulated. The original A/C unit that was installed 34 years ago was also a 5 ton, as were all the houses in our subdivision. If the basement were to be finished and heated, that would add another 1000 sq. ft. of living space.
Gary
========================


You sure it's a 5 TON? Holy cow, a 5 ton on a 1800sqft home! You either have zero insulation, livor they put a really big system in. I now understand whay it's so noisy and wakes you up. It's probably oversized. Most 1800sqft homes need between a 2.5ton and a 4 ton system in most climates.

Undersized ductwork also might explain to odd behavior of the filter monitor.

Infinity system are amazing things. But if installed incorrectly or oversized, they will not perform as they should.

I had a local contractor talking down Infinity systems and saying how he's taken several out because the owners weren't happy and put in conventional Trane systems. I learned the hard way that he does sloppy installs and oversizes equipment. Actually, his poor quality work is what brought me to this site and got me more insterested in HVAC.

My inlaws have a Infinity 20 AC with a ICS furnace. Its' sweet! Never even notice it's running maintains humidity and temperature within 0.5F and 5% RH year round. They set it and forget it.

[isuredo]

The Infinity stat works on 1/16 degree, it will cut off at the upper end of set point, long runs are what heat pumps do when its cold

[second opinion]

Greetings,
I have an Infinity T-stat. When the 'Heat At' temp is set to 69 and the 'Actual' temp is 69, the HP continues to run for a long time....hour or more. Also, during this time, it switches from Low Stage to High Stage and back to Low Stage, with no changes in the the Heat At or Actual temps. Why does it not shut off when the Actual temp matches the Heat At temp?

Also, when the Heat At temp is set to '69', is it set at 69.1, .2, .3... .9? And if the Actual temp reads as '69', is it 69.1, .2, .3... .9?

Thanks... Gary

Your controller is measuring in 1/10th of a degree, as it progresses it creates a PI algorithm to determine what stage it needs to run in to meet set point at set time.
As it is running in first stage it may see that the temperature gain per minute is not great enough to accomplish set point, it will then go to second stage and it will watch the progression, as it brings it back up to heat gain verses time it will drop back to a lower stage, if it does not see the gain continue it will change to a higher level to meet set point. during this process it may require defrost and will bring on the gas furnace.

[goddi]

Perhaps it was sized to accomodate finishing off the basement in the future?
I was wrong on my first posting. It is about 2600 sq ft plus about 1000 for the unfinished/unheated basement.


It might be a good idea to verify size of outdoor unit, i.e., if it is a 5 ton, you should should see a 60 or thereabouts on it. Ratings will be in 12s (12,000 per ton...2 ton 24/2 1/2 ton 30, etc., though I am sure you know this).
5 ton for sure.


So it reacted differently this morning? I haven't looked, but I don't think temps were that different in the last few days, were they?
Before if was in the low 30's; now in the low 60's.

Personally, I think this is too much of an offset. You are asking your system to recover three degrees, and another tech said this stat works in 1/2 degree increments, so the potential offset by the time the schedule changes could be 3 1/2 to four degrees.

Some houses take longer than others to satisfy, and this may be the case with yours. As a test, for a couple days set the programming to one temp, and note the performance, and see if it doesn't change the "symptoms" you are noticing.

That doesn't mean that the house is as tight as you might think. I would also be curious if this is a rancher or a two-story.
Two story with basement.

Okay, not too far north, though there can be an incredible difference between there and central Va. sometimes. In the mountains? On average there is about a ten degree difference between them and where I am, even moving directly west.

But really, there is no reason dual-fuel shouldn't work for you.

I am hesitant to second-guess your servicer's ability, do you use the same person regularly?
Same company, but different guys. This last one seemed to be one of the better ones, 15 year-senior tech. He understood my concerns and helped reset some of the programming. Hard to find anyone really well versed in the Hybrid system.

True, but before doing that, set the temp on one setting, see how it reacts. It may be (and usually is) better that way, allowing the system to remain constant.
I think you said it would run through stages (aux./2nd/1st) in the morning, so my advice would be a constant setpoint, and then go from there.
Last night, it did not run through all the different stages. Maybe it was not cold enough. Was in the 60's. But I will let it go with the Smart Recovery off as the weather gets back to colder this weekend to see what it does.
S.T.
Gary

[goddi]

Your controller is measuring in 1/10th of a degree, as it progresses it creates a PI algorithm to determine what stage it needs to run in to meet set point at set time.
As it is running in first stage it may see that the temperature gain per minute is not great enough to accomplish set point, it will then go to second stage and it will watch the progression, as it brings it back up to heat gain verses time it will drop back to a lower stage, if it does not see the gain continue it will change to a higher level to meet set point. during this process it may require defrost and will bring on the gas furnace.

Yes, I understand that. But can you tell me what the set point actually is when you set the Heat At, say, at 69 degrees? 60.0, 60.1...etc? I turned of the Smart Recovery so I want to see if this will have any effect once the temperature drops down this weekend. I hope it does not do the same jumping around in the morning as it increases from 66 (setback temp) to 69.
Gary

[motoguy128]

I still suspect it's a little big, but at least it's two stage. I had a poorly insulated 1300sqft ranch with a full basement that I heated and cooled (basements don't need much conditoning because the "outside" temp is always 50-60F. It only need 2 tons of cooling and 45k BTU heating.

A well insulated 2600sqft home probably only needs 4 tons, even with a finished basement. But 5 tons isn't groosely oversized. It does sound like you're in a warmer climate however.

[second opinion]

Yes, I understand that. But can you tell me what the set point actually is when you set the Heat At, say, at 69 degrees? 60.0, 60.1...etc? I turned of the Smart Recovery so I want to see if this will have any effect once the temperature drops down this weekend. I hope it does not do the same jumping around in the morning as it increases from 66 (setback temp) to 69.
Gary

If the Tstat is satisfied at 69 degrees and no offset has been entered it would be 69.

Now as it is coming out of night set back it will come on at the time it is set for and will not have any lead for start as in "intelligent recovery" It will go ahead and stage to the gas furnace to bring it up to temperature. When the temperature is raising and starting at 69 you will not see the 1/10th degree increments only whole numbers, so after 10 minutes of run time it may still say 69 but actually be 69.9

[isuredo]

229272
Second Opinion, see page 1, 1/16 degree, for all, this was released in 2006, any questions feel free

[S.T.Ranger]

Perhaps it was sized to accomodate finishing off the basement in the future?


I was wrong on my first posting. It is about 2600 sq ft plus about 1000 for the unfinished/unheated basement.



Yeah, I guessed that when I was thinking about it running down the road. Said you had a 1000 sq.' if the basement was finished off.





5 ton for sure.


Again, was it sized with a view to finish off the basement?



Before if was in the low 30's; now in the low 60's.



Yeah, it was awesome yesterday...great working weather.








Same company, but different guys. This last one seemed to be one of the better ones, 15 year-senior tech. He understood my concerns and helped reset some of the programming. Hard to find anyone really well versed in the Hybrid system.



It's not my favorite. I tend to like things simple. Doesn't mean I won't put them in, but give me heat pump anyday.



Last night, it did not run through all the different stages. Maybe it was not cold enough. Was in the 60's. But I will let it go with the Smart Recovery off as the weather gets back to colder this weekend to see what it does.




And don't forget, set everything to the same temp. I am thinking you don't have a problem, and that the installing company did a good job. If they are continuing to send men out to satisfy your concerns, that is a sign they stand behind their work.

[goddi]

If the Tstat is satisfied at 69 degrees and no offset has been entered it would be 69.

Now as it is coming out of night set back it will come on at the time it is set for and will not have any lead for start as in "intelligent recovery" It will go ahead and stage to the gas furnace to bring it up to temperature. When the temperature is raising and starting at 69 you will not see the 1/10th degree increments only whole numbers, so after 10 minutes of run time it may still say 69 but actually be 69.9
====================
Ok. So are you saying that when I set the 'Heat At' temp to '69', it is actually '69.9'?
Gary

[goddi]

/
Yeah, I guessed that when I was thinking about it running down the road. Said you had a 1000 sq.' if the basement was finished off.

Again, was it sized with a view to finish off the basement?
I would assume that it was. Some people have finished their basement, but I don't have a need to do it, so I closed off the vents in the basement.


Yeah, it was awesome yesterday...great working weather.
But not for long....

It's not my favorite. I tend to like things simple. Doesn't mean I won't put them in, but give me heat pump anyday.

And don't forget, set everything to the same temp. I am thinking you don't have a problem, and that the installing company did a good job. If they are continuing to send men out to satisfy your concerns, that is a sign they stand behind their work.
I have been complaining for 3 years that the Filter Use Percentage keep bouncing around. They have been explaining it away by saying it just has to do with the measurement of the static pressure at any particular time. I complained again yesterday and the technician apparently understood my point and said they should get Carrier people involved to solve the problem. After 3 years of this, I hope he follows through.

[goddi]

229272
Second Opinion, see page 1, 1/16 degree, for all, this was released in 2006, any questions feel free

===========================
Just what I have been looking for. It goes into much more detail than anything I have found so far. Super thanks. I will have to read it several times more. Such things like "For example, a display of 70ºF could actually be 69.1 thru 70.9. This is the way all of our thermostats display temperature, and has been this way since the beginning.", is just something I'd never would have thought was being used. Wouldn't they solve a lot of questions if they just put in one decimal point and show the more accurate temps???
Gary

[isuredo]

Software Revs 3,5,6,8,10, 12 Infinity /Evolution Troubleshooting (Rev. 2)
10-12-2006
7
Situation: Clean or Replace Filter is displayed after a short period of time
These systems have a feature called TrueSense filter detection. This feature reads the change in
static pressure caused by the filter accumulating dirt. At 1:00 pm each day the system will take a
reading and record the change in static pressure. The clean or replace filter message will pop up
when the filter is full.
This feature operates by setting a base line static pressure based on the highest airflow the system
could run (this could be heat or cool airflow). The measurement is taken at a low airflow, and then
calculated up to the highest airflow the system could see. An enhancement to the (-A) model was
that if a furnace is used and it is locked in low fire, the calculation will use the higher of the cooling
airflow or low furnace heat airflow. In previous versions, it used the higher of high furnace airflow or
cooling airflow even if the furnace was locked in low fire.
In (-A) models (version 10 and 12 software), clean filter routine was changed to eliminate nuisance
pop up messages when a marginal duct system is used. When the initial static pressure is 0.7
inches or higher, a modified calculation is used to allow this feature to be used at higher static
pressures. With –A models, it will only pop up immediately if the initial static is 1.5 inches or higher.
This truly indicates a ductwork problem that must be addressed.
Options if this pops up quickly:
• Evaluate duct work and make improvements to lower static pressure where possible
• Change filter type to EAC. This will display the message based on time instead of static
pressure change
• Turn the filter reminder to off in the homeowner’s Advance Setup

[isuredo]

===========================
Just what I have been looking for. It goes into much more detail than anything I have found so far. Super thanks. I will have to read it several times more. Such things like "For example, a display of 70ºF could actually be 69.1 thru 70.9. This is the way all of our thermostats display temperature, and has been this way since the beginning.", is just something I'd never would have thought was being used. Wouldn't they solve a lot of questions if they just put in one decimal point and show the more accurate temps???
Gary

Most people are not that concerned nor do they feel a diffrence that small, all thermostats are this way, only a critical application would need something that reads the decimals, like my Dad always told me, Dont sweat the small stuff!:cheers:

[goddi]

Keep these interesting informational notes coming.
But, my problem is that the percentage just jumps around with no logic. As the filter gets dirty, I would expect a gradual increase in the reading. This does not happen with my system. Just a few days ago, it was due to change my filter after 6 months. The Filter Used percentage had been showing 0% for a week. I changed the filter, while the technician was here doing the 6-month service, and the percent changed to 50%. I hit the reset button and it went back to 0%. T



Software Revs 3,5,6,8,10, 12 Infinity /Evolution Troubleshooting (Rev. 2)
10-12-2006
7
Situation: Clean or Replace Filter is displayed after a short period of time
These systems have a feature called TrueSense filter detection. This feature reads the change in
static pressure caused by the filter accumulating dirt. At 1:00 pm each day the system will take a
reading and record the change in static pressure. The clean or replace filter message will pop up
when the filter is full.
This feature operates by setting a base line static pressure based on the highest airflow the system
could run (this could be heat or cool airflow). The measurement is taken at a low airflow, and then
calculated up to the highest airflow the system could see. An enhancement to the (-A) model was
that if a furnace is used and it is locked in low fire, the calculation will use the higher of the cooling
airflow or low furnace heat airflow. In previous versions, it used the higher of high furnace airflow or
cooling airflow even if the furnace was locked in low fire.
In (-A) models (version 10 and 12 software), clean filter routine was changed to eliminate nuisance
pop up messages when a marginal duct system is used. When the initial static pressure is 0.7
inches or higher, a modified calculation is used to allow this feature to be used at higher static
pressures. With –A models, it will only pop up immediately if the initial static is 1.5 inches or higher.
This truly indicates a ductwork problem that must be addressed.
Options if this pops up quickly:
• Evaluate duct work and make improvements to lower static pressure where possible
• Change filter type to EAC. This will display the message based on time instead of static
pressure change
• Turn the filter reminder to off in the homeowner’s Advance Setup

[goddi]

Keep these interesting informational notes coming.
But, my problem is that the filter use percentage just jumps around with no logic. As the filter gets dirty, I would expect a gradual increase in the reading. This does not happen with my system. Just a few days ago, it was due to change my filter after 6 months. The Filter Used percentage had been showing 0% for the past week. I changed the filter, while the technician was here doing the 6-month service, and the percent changed to 50%. I hit the reset button and it went back to 0%. The next day it showed 1%; later that same day it showed 20%. 0% to 20% in one day makes no sense.
I just checked the software for my T-stat and it is CESR131339-16. Is this the latest?
Gary
=============================


Software Revs 3,5,6,8,10, 12 Infinity /Evolution Troubleshooting (Rev. 2)
10-12-2006
7
Situation: Clean or Replace Filter is displayed after a short period of time
These systems have a feature called TrueSense filter detection. This feature reads the change in
static pressure caused by the filter accumulating dirt. At 1:00 pm each day the system will take a
reading and record the change in static pressure. The clean or replace filter message will pop up
when the filter is full.
This feature operates by setting a base line static pressure based on the highest airflow the system
could run (this could be heat or cool airflow). The measurement is taken at a low airflow, and then
calculated up to the highest airflow the system could see. An enhancement to the (-A) model was
that if a furnace is used and it is locked in low fire, the calculation will use the higher of the cooling
airflow or low furnace heat airflow. In previous versions, it used the higher of high furnace airflow or
cooling airflow even if the furnace was locked in low fire.
In (-A) models (version 10 and 12 software), clean filter routine was changed to eliminate nuisance
pop up messages when a marginal duct system is used. When the initial static pressure is 0.7
inches or higher, a modified calculation is used to allow this feature to be used at higher static
pressures. With –A models, it will only pop up immediately if the initial static is 1.5 inches or higher.
This truly indicates a ductwork problem that must be addressed.
Options if this pops up quickly:
• Evaluate duct work and make improvements to lower static pressure where possible
• Change filter type to EAC. This will display the message based on time instead of static
pressure change
• Turn the filter reminder to off in the homeowner’s Advance Setup