why do owners

[dirtyboy103us]

why do owners try to cheap out on paying key people in their organizations.... with trust and loyalty so hard to find out there... when one of your key persons starts looking for something better its more than likely a dollar or two is not going to satisfy them after they find out their potential market value, myself i would feel like a friend had cheated me and my family an employer/employee relationship is like a marriage ... the trust would be gone like me!!

[self employed 1]

what planet do you live on?? its a buisiness relationship and as long as each party does what is expected of each other thats where it should end. are you telling me you sleep with your boss??

[dec]

You say once you figure out your potental value, that you wouldnt stay around at a dollar or two raise once you figure out what you are potentally worth. You say trust and loyalty is hard to find out there, your right. So now that you feel your worth so much more , you have no loyalty or trust with your boss? I never looked at what your experiance is so Im not sure how KEY you are to there business. You hear that a lot from guys that have been there for 1-2 years, Who is key is in the eyes of the beholder. How often do you see someone upset that the boss that has been doing it for years is making a lot of money and the new guy is upset he isnt making as much.

Not saying some bosses do not pay less then they should but some do the best they can with what is really being made. Most techs realize there are a lot of cost to the business that are not seen and just being they are billing out 100- 175 an hour, its not always going in the owners pocket. Oh and being you say the only way you can make money in a residental company is COCK ROACHING as you call it, at night on the side. Where is that loyalty and trust you talk of ......... from that your not a key person in that shop, your just a tech looking out for whats best for you. thats ok tho , you got to do what you have to do....so has your boss.


[Edited by dec on 02-21-2006 at 10:24 PM]

[Senior Tech]

The bottom line is..........the bottom line.

Friendships are here and...................Gross margins are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay over here.

[troyorr]

Business is Business ans Friendship is Bullsh*t

[outside rep]

money first everything else is second

[dirtyboy103us]

i hope as i set out to make it on my own i hope i don't let my own greed get in the way of my morals and common sense

key people = people who work and strive to help to grow
[ YOUR ] business
if you don't have these key people in place how do become
the world champs or do you get lumped in with rest of the schmucks out there that can pass the exam

nobody is indispensable to a company not even the owner
but in that respect it makes it easier to grow and build a reputation for performance by having these people

why in the world would you train someone and spend thousand
and then let them walk out to your competition or become your competition

they have a stake in how the company preforms and most just have pride in what they do

cockroaching = those are [MY COSTUMERS ] refer to me by family and friends and word of mouth from previous costumers as i am reliable and honest they are willing to wait for next day service or next weekend which ever may be the case.... are you saying i should have turned them over to my employer for his profit

integrity = when i was on the job for my employer you could not get me to do it on the side

these are all the qualitys that you will find in [MOST] techs. but when you as an owner purvey a feeling of distrust and that they are nothing but a dime a dozen well i guess all bets are off

make it the best employer to work for

most owners, not all, use words like team and theres no I in team just m and e

[dhvac]

come back and post you findings after you are on your own for a few years

i would bet your outlook on a lot of things will change




remember the grass is always greener on the other side

[flange]

i left the big red H after twelve years of service under that premise. I was doing most selling of mechanicals systems and services in our branch. I was pm'ing boiler and chiller installs because the management types couldnt handle it. I was also a service tech(fitter) who took care of three of the most lucritive, high visibility accounts, and was one of two techs in the shop who could be called to service any account after hours. most other fitters there could only do pneumatics and light air conditioning. For all of this initially I was paid very hansomely including quarterly bonuses. Then one day i was told all was gone due to new configuration of the hierarchy. they wanted me to do more for less pay. I was already working upwards of seventy hours per week. I informed them that i was looking for a new job and would be leaving within a month or sooner and they had better get someone else in place. Upon my leaving date they wished me well and informed me they could get another member from the union who would fill my shoes easily. Six months later they were calling and emailing begging for me to come back at all the original perks. NOT HAPPENING. I am now an owner and treat my people very well, including a completely open policy about jobs, customer issues and finances. I make no bones about the fact that most of the profit will be mine for taking the risks associated with payroll etc, but there is always something there when needed for keeping the men happy.

[mike3]

why in the world would you train someone and spend thousand
and then let them walk out to your competition or become your competition .....


It was said here before "What if you don't train them and they stay"

[rickl]

nobody is indispensable to a company not even the owner

Dirty, you have a "Right Stuff" in my opinion! good luck!

[hvac45]

1st of all, most people think an owner owes them more money just because they are there. Just once I would like someone to come to me and lay something in front of me and say to me, here's what I did for you last year or whatever time, I improved this or that, I increased production or sales or service, something. Therefore I think I deserve a raise. Just once I would like to see that. You know what? I would probably give him more than he was asking. How many of you have ever approached your boss that way? I'll bet next to none.

[mackinaw]

"I improved this or that, I increased production or sales or service, something. Therefore I think I deserve a raise. Just once I would like to see that."


Well Mr. Business owner, when you go to the store do you expect your milk and bread to be "improved or more efficient" just because it cost more?

Well.... employee cost go up just like "everything" else. I know we have a lot of nerve to expect to be able to feed our loved ones. Greed is wrong, please remember that when your employees expect a little more each year.

How about we just lay our bills in front of you, and then you can decide how much spending money we deserve.

Greed, Greed, Greed....

[hvac45]

You create your own bills, we all have them. Nothing is free, You must earn your raises. Do you think someone handed us a business, Does everything you own hinge on the business, do you lay awake nights wondering about jobs bills ect. no you don't. I have almost lost everything a few times, mainly due to greedy employees who are lazy and just want a hand out. Who try to do just enough to get by. Who try to sneaksub standard work thru.

[dash]

Originally posted by hvac45
You create your own bills, we all have them. Nothing is free, You must earn your raises. Do you think someone handed us a business, Does everything you own hinge on the business, do you lay awake nights wondering about jobs bills ect. no you don't. I have almost lost everything a few times, mainly due to greedy employees who are lazy and just want a hand out. Who try to do just enough to get by. Who try to sneaksub standard work thru.

True ,but don't forget about the good/great ones.

Off topic,Mike where have you been,how are things going??

[mackinaw]

" You create your own bills, we all have them. Nothing is free, You must earn your raises. Do you think someone handed us a business, Does everything you own hinge on the business, do you lay awake nights wondering about jobs bills ect. no you don't. I have almost lost everything a few times, mainly due to greedy employees who are lazy and just want a hand out. Who try to do just enough to get by. Who try to sneaksub standard work thru. "

I'm sure your problems are more important to you....but please don't whine about your sacrifices. You made a choice just like everyone else. Time for money. It's all a trade off. I'm only willing to trade so much.

I agree, you need to "earn" a "promotion", but employees deserve an annual "raise". Employees are a cost just like trucks, fuel, tools, office paper and staples...and unfortunately cost go up. It sound like you have made some hiring mistakes, that is a risk in business. That is not my problem. If I do a good job, show up on time and work hard, I deserve an annual raise just to keep up with the cost of living. If your a business owner then I'm sure you understand that if everything you buy is going up and your pay's staying the same, your loosing money. How long are people going to continue to work (honest work) when their pay is going down? If you do not care about the (good) people you hire, then shame on you.

[hvac45]

You are right about hiring some bad employees we all do. The cost of living raises you are right about that to. But, a good employee who goes a little above and beyond, one you can count on thru thick in thin, those are the ones you try and reward more. As a thank you for a job well done. Most employees do what they have to to make a certain amount, others are hungary, they will work hard if there is extra money to be made. Here in the South most of the guys work ethics are slow and they don't look to work hard to get ahead. It sounds like you have a bad boss now and your po'd. We have all been there.
I pay my people very well, I have all kinds of different incintives for them to make extra money. When I find a good employee I do my best to pay him well and make sure he gets his hours.

[hvac45]

Hey Dash, long story, bad divorce, bad year in business last year for a number of reasons, the base closure scare last spring, to key employees walked out in the middle of summer to try and start there own thing. ( They thought I taught them everything). We had a real slow Dec., Jan. this year. Building a new shop that was to take 6 months and ended up taking 2 years. Being a single Dad to an 8 year old. But, I have slowly come back, Business is great, Like everyone though, I need more installers. I met a really great Lady and thats going good, I have been working a lot more and just haven't really had time to go on here. Plus I like to be upbeat on the site. For a long time I was to absorbed in my own life. I went thru a stage where I just wanted to be alone, I am finally starting to come out of it. I didn't even think anyone would remember me to be honest. Thanks for asking.

[dirtyboy103us]

looking at employee's like liabilities and not assets
is not the proper way to go, you must get down to their level
and remember where you came from unless the company was just handed to you, then you can't remember

they have bills just like you and they take your attitude to the job site and carry it all day long. ... it could be a huge weight on them worrying about bills also

when you have a boss/supervisor who can pull out a pair of coveralls, tuck his tie in his shirt and start working side by side you to get the job complete makes most employee's
want to be as good as him with his can do attitude

had one of these and am i grateful, want to base my work and attitude on him

if he asked me to stand on my head and spit wooden nickels i
would


ever look at one of your employee's and say [****] he's smarter than me
only to let him leave to become your competition
why didn't i make him a partner, was it pride or arogance

the way i see it i am going to surround myself with as many as these people and grab their shirt tails and hold on for the ride

[hvac45]

#1 partnerships don't work, #2 if an employee wants to buy stock in the company I would sell it, so they have a stake in it, But I won't give it away, they can earn it just like I did. I started my company with nothing so to speak. I haven't worn a tie since 1977, I am in the field at least 6 hours a day, I have a few techs and installers that know things I don't, just like I know things that they don't. When you pool that knowledge without ego's going on that is true teamwork. That is what we have here. It is hard work owning a company, ask anyone who does, But, I do know the bosses you are talking about, I have been in the trade for almost 34 years, I finally quit doing on call 2 years ago, however, my phone is always on and my guys know day or night if they need me I will be there. I have had guys quit annd try to steal my business, they tried thier own thing, none have succeded yet, As long as a guy doesn't try to steal my customers I think it is great for them to try and get ahead. There is plenty of business out there for everyone here.

[pabull]

Originally posted by hvac45
#1 partnerships don't work, #2 if an employee wants to buy stock in the company I would sell it, so they have a stake in it, But I won't give it away, they can earn it just like I did. I started my company with nothing so to speak. I haven't worn a tie since 1977, I am in the field at least 6 hours a day, I have a few techs and installers that know things I don't, just like I know things that they don't. When you pool that knowledge without ego's going on that is true teamwork. That is what we have here. It is hard work owning a company, ask anyone who does, But, I do know the bosses you are talking about, I have been in the trade for almost 34 years, I finally quit doing on call 2 years ago, however, my phone is always on and my guys know day or night if they need me I will be there. I have had guys quit annd try to steal my business, they tried thier own thing, none have succeded yet, As long as a guy doesn't try to steal my customers I think it is great for them to try and get ahead. There is plenty of business out there for everyone here.
You hit it on the head!! As long as the OWNERS and EMPLOYEES realize that there is no "I" in team, you have a winning formula. :D

[secorp]

Originally posted by hvac45
I didn't even think anyone would remember me to be honest. Thanks for asking.

Heck ya, lots a people wondered about you, it was kind-a gay.:D

I used to sit and dream about moving North to Beauford.



Mackinaw, this guy (45) and Dash appear to be the real deal, in terms of being good or at the very least fair employers.

[hvac45]

I can vouch for Dash anyway.

[mackinaw]

secorp;

I must have gotten the wrong impression by reading quotes like this....

"But, a good employee who goes a little above and beyond, one you can count on thru thick in thin, those are the ones you try and reward more. As a thank you for a job well done."

I'm sorry but my bank only takes money, praise is nice when deserved but won't feed the family. You either reward your people who help you succeed or you don't. Do you charge your customers money for your services or is just a thank you enough to keep your business going?

In defense of hvac45 I did see comments like this;

"The cost of living raises you are right about that to."

"I pay my people very well, I have all kinds of different incintives for them to make extra money."

Here is my favorite;

" Here in the South most of the guys work ethics are slow and they don't look to work hard to get ahead." (What year is this, 1950?) You must be joking right?

[The Penguin]

FDange- NIce work keep it up


RESPECT what does it mean to me the worker whom by my sheer hard work my employer enjoys great profits riding on my back. without me he does not have a business without customers he does not have a buasiness

we are a key part of the equation

respect to me means $$$$$$$$$$$$$ its what we are all here for to respect me is to pay me well you don't want to share some of those profits with me then I will find some one else whom will

[hvac45]

By rewards I meant more money, and yes sometimes I wonder if we are still in the 50's here, I have worked all over the county, and this is by far the worst I have seen.

[dash]

Originally posted by hvac45
Hey Dash, long story, bad divorce, bad year in business last year for a number of reasons, the base closure scare last spring, to key employees walked out in the middle of summer to try and start there own thing. ( They thought I taught them everything). We had a real slow Dec., Jan. this year. Building a new shop that was to take 6 months and ended up taking 2 years. Being a single Dad to an 8 year old. But, I have slowly come back, Business is great, Like everyone though, I need more installers. I met a really great Lady and thats going good, I have been working a lot more and just haven't really had time to go on here. Plus I like to be upbeat on the site. For a long time I was to absorbed in my own life. I went thru a stage where I just wanted to be alone, I am finally starting to come out of it. I didn't even think anyone would remember me to be honest. Thanks for asking.


Send me a email ,we have have found a way to get some RNC "trainable" installers,it might work for you too.

Divorcved twice here,bought half the business twice ,plus one more time from the partner,so I know how it goes.

I was lucky to survive since I paid for half three times.hehehe

It's only money and you can make more,best revenge is living well!!

[Dowadudda]

Originally posted by hvac45
Hey Dash, long story, bad divorce, bad year in business last year for a number of reasons, the base closure scare last spring, to key employees walked out in the middle of summer to try and start there own thing. ( They thought I taught them everything). We had a real slow Dec., Jan. this year. Building a new shop that was to take 6 months and ended up taking 2 years. Being a single Dad to an 8 year old. But, I have slowly come back, Business is great, Like everyone though, I need more installers. I met a really great Lady and thats going good, I have been working a lot more and just haven't really had time to go on here. Plus I like to be upbeat on the site. For a long time I was to absorbed in my own life. I went thru a stage where I just wanted to be alone, I am finally starting to come out of it. I didn't even think anyone would remember me to be honest. Thanks for asking.

Damn Mike, thought you vanished off the face of the Earth. Good to hear your still fighting away. I hope your doing good.

[hvac45]

Hey Dow, hope all is well. Same old story, need more installers, we finally got the new building finished. I have more new construction than I know what to do with. But, we'll get things done. 85 deg. today. I haven't had time to email Dash yet But I will. Take care Mike

[derrick1623]

now look, i just need to vent and this is a good place!

i have never been a "business owner" but i HAVE seen the inside operations of ALOT of businesses, i hear what they go through and see them dealing with vendors, suppliers, workers, etc.

my current situation is this:
the "v.p" is our "sales guy" who bids all these huge ass 7 story buildings at xxx timeframe, and xxx manhours.

this guy has NEVER EVER worked "in the field". we have completed 3 floors of this bigass building in rockville, md in under a month, and this guy shows up and says:

"i don't see alot of progress here". the same man that "don't want to talk to the employees cause it ain't my style"

it pisses me off as an employee, and i seriously say that if YOU GUYS, YOU HVACTALK GUYS ever act like HIM as a business owner/operator...that i will buy a aerioplane ticket and fly to your town...call the local cabbie, get a ride to your house...ring the doorbell, and knock your sorry ass out!

owners: give the workers a break WHEN EARNED!

workers: stfu and keep working until you EARN the right to recieve a "break"!

[hvac45]

you are so right, I still do my time when **** hits the fan, I know, Dow does, I am pretty sure Dash does, and a bunch more. A true member of the company jumps out where needed, you are working for a bean counter. He is trying to cover his inability, now granted I will push my guys, but I really know how long a job should take so do a lot of people here. If you are getting used, move on. There are companies out there that truly appreciate what the people do. Keep looking you'll find it. Good luck, or come to South Carolina and find it.

[Dowadudda]

Originally posted by hvac45
Hey Dow, hope all is well. Same old story, need more installers, we finally got the new building finished. I have more new construction than I know what to do with. But, we'll get things done. 85 deg. today. I haven't had time to email Dash yet But I will. Take care Mike

awesome to hear from you, that's great you got the building done. The better looking half says HEY. stay in touch.

[osiyo]

Originally posted by dirtyboy103us
why do owners try to cheap out on paying key people in their organizations.... with trust and loyalty so hard to find out there... when one of your key persons starts looking for something better its more than likely a dollar or two is not going to satisfy them after they find out their potential market value, myself i would feel like a friend had cheated me and my family an employer/employee relationship is like a marriage ... the trust would be gone like me!!

Hmmm. This thread has been about talked out. And I've likely nothing worthwhile to contribute. However I just found and read the thread and simply can't resist the urge to make a few comments.

First, I'm not an owner, nor some senior manager, etc. But I have been around a while, hopefully have at least average powers of observation, and have been both the low level worker bee and a supervisor of men and jobs.


why do owners try to cheap out on paying key people in their organizations

-SOME- owners indeed do this. Not all. In my observation such an attitude is most likely to be found in the cheap, fly-by-night, sleazy sort of businesses. Who mostly don't last long. At least not using the same name.

And it's also found among some of the big corporations. Not all, but certainly some. And, generally speaking, the lower the level in the chain of command (hierarchy) you find a person "in charge" of an office, shop, department, branch or whatever who has a BA or BS or MBA degree and no field experience whatsoever AND his or her degree isn't in an engineering or technical one ... the more likely said corporation is to have the attitude you mention. In short, place where bean counters are so prevalent they've taken over even the production or operations side of the business. I've nothing in particular against bean counters, they have their usefulness. And any organizations that's sizeable can benefit from having one or more around. However as a general rule, true more often than not, bean counters should never be directly in charge of ... or supervise ... anything but spreadsheets and power point presentaions. They tend to be good number jugglers ... and absolutely horrible at exercising common sense, or dealing with or supervising field level activities or people.

All that said, I'll move on to my thoughts about the rest of the businesses and owners.

Most, I don't believe, have the attitude you mention. But they also aren't gonna pay a person more than they can afford. Or more than that person is truly worth to them. In REAL terms. ie Profit. A business that pays their workers more solely based upon sentiment and feelings, isn't gonna stay in business long. Yah can't just charge customers whatever yah feel like. "Mr Customer, sir, I know I'm charging yah 50% more than my competition. I wish I could say, and PROVE, to you that it's because my people do better work and provide better service than my competition. But, in honesty, I'd be lying if I said that. The truth is, they're okay. Average. But I pay em more because we're all buddies and I like em a lot on a personal basis. So I gotta charge you more for the job. You do understand, don't yah?"

Hmmm. I don't think that flies to well with customers. Not with most of em, anyway. Wouldn't with me. If I'm gonna pay more, I have what I think is a reasonable expectation that the service is gonna be better. Or the product installed. Or the warranty/guarantee. Or SOMETHING ... needs to be better, if you're gonna ask me to pay extra. More than your competition is asking.

Reality is, over time, in most things, I've settled upon certain people (companies) I deal with for this and that. And the fact is, none of those people/services are the cheapest. Not a one. They're also not the most expensive. I do okay, but I'm not a rich man. Each one of the businesses I deal with provides me with what I think is the best product and service available ... within the range of expense I'm willing and able to put out for that item.

Each has distinguished themselves to me in some way. It varies dependent upon whom and what we're speaking. But each has provided me some reason to pay extra over the absolute bottom line cheapest I can get away with.

Take my auto guy. Okay, I know Don has got his bottom line. He expects to make N percent on any particular job. And I know he pays his auto techs at least well enough so that they stay with him long term. Well, at least his good ones. Apprentices and newbies come and go. But his senior guys are in for the long haul and seem to like working for him. I see the same faces year in and year out. Don charges more than some, not as much as others. I could get my work done cheaper. BUT ... I trust Don and his guys. The do good, reliable work. The do it promptly, and well, and he backs up his guys' work. If somebody goofed or a new part fails, he makes good on it. He doesn't bull**** me, or anyone else. I do business with his place because I have a great deal of confidence I'm getting my money's worth. No worries.

So, yeah, he bills accordingly. Not so high as to drive away business. But well enough so that, evidently, it's worth it to him personally to put in the long hours I know he works. And he obviously pays what he believes to be his KEY people, well enough so I haven't seen any of those guys disappear over the past 10 or so years. Except for the one who retired.

BTW, what do yah mean when you say "key people"? To me it'd mean those people without whom the business can not function as normal. That is, continue to perform same level of business, service, and productivity while maintaining desired or required profit levels. That's a measureable definition. Anything that one can not reduce down to measureable quantities ... is an opinion, not a fact.

Personally I've known, and supervised, a LOT of guys, at one time or another, who considered themselves to be "key people" ... who were no such thing. I could replace em. And did on a number of occassions.

LOL ... heck, there has been a time or two I thought I was myself a "key person", and absolutely indespensible and someone an organization or group simply could not do without.

I was wrong more times than I was right about that. ROFLMAO ... that's a real eye opener. When yah realize that maybe, just maybe ... that you're not quite so good nor so special as yah thought you were. Oh, I was good at what I did. Better than most. But as I learned many years ago in my later teens and early 20's .... there were more "replacements" for me who were just as good ... or better ... or guys who could quickly learn to be as good ... than I'd thought there were. I got what we used to call a "reality check". Several times. I wasn't quite as special as I thought I was, and could be replaced. Both by bosses, and by girlfriends.

That kinda hurt, at first. But in the long run I found it to be a valueable lesson.

No one was gonna keep me around "just because". Well, maybe my mother might have. But that was about it. And I was a mite old to be running back to momma so I could feel that "wanted" feeling, and have those feelings of security.

A bit at a time, over time, I figured out that I was only as good as, as valueable as, I made myself every day. Even then, I was and am replaceable. More times than not. So I tried harder. Tackled most every job or task with my best effort. Kept trying every day to learn to do what I did a little better. Kept trying to learn more about the art and science of what I did. Kept trying to do my best and PROVE my worth to whomever I worked for.

<Shrug> One isn't going to be "special" to everyone. In some cases, for whatever the reason ... whether it was my failure to distinguish myself or because my boss didn't like me or whatever, doesn't actually matter ... I wasn't offered a promotion or pay increase. So I'd eventually do whatever was necessary to "move on". To get work elsewhere or in a different shop or department. If no one was making me a better offer, I'd figure I was doing something wrong. Or that the "market" was what it was, for the kinda work I was doing. If the former, I tried harder. If the later I did what was necessary to shift fields or specialty within a field. Or geographical locations. Into field, subspecialty, or place that seemed to offer better opportunity. In a couple cases I deliberately shifted in a specialty where there was a shortage of people. And more than once I asked for and accepted work in places that pretty much sucked, for one reason or another. At least, there was a shortage of people with necessary skills who wanted to go there.

Over time, it worked for me. I got to where I wanted to be, anyway. The proof of my "worth", to any particular boss being not my opinion. Rather it was the fact that this one or that thought it worth his while to boost my pay, or position, or send me for additional training, or whatever.

<Shrug> If I didn't get what I thought I was worth, I surely didn't blame my boss. I figured I needed to improve self, or move on to another job. Sometimes move into a another field of work.

Another point. Sometimes men stay in jobs, at particular ones, for reasons other than simply money. Sometimes it's not the bottom line of exactly how much money per hour they're getting. That is to say, some employers aren't pressed to pay the absolute top dollar to get the quality people that they desire. Good guys will stay with em for other reasons.

ie Recently, where I work, we've had a spat of having competition hire away some of our people. They've lured away some of the good ones, too. Offering a few dollars more than we do.

I won't say they were "key" people. Fact is we're still doing good business. Whether or not the folks who left were "key" people, stills remains to be proved one way or another. Several, are very good at what they do. Some others ... well, they think they're exceptional at what they do, but I might disagree. In any event, that those guys who left are actually "worth" the extra money they got is still to be proven. Time will tell. Maybe ... maybe not. I'm not gonna bad mouth all of em, as some of them I consider friends, and wish em the best. At the same time I'm gonna do my best to whup em when it comes to business.

However, the thing is we had a number of folks who've stayed. Who the competition has tried hard, in some cases VERY hard ... to hire away. Why did they stay?

In a couple cases, it was decided that the particular guys were in fact worth a couple extra dollars in their pay check. In other cases, guys didn't even ask for it. But weren't interested in leaving us either. The extra money offered by competition wasn't worth it to em. The like working where they do. Like the way we work, who they work with, type of work, and the work conditions.

Employers don't necessarily keep people solely by the bottom line on the paycheck. Some folks, and not infrequently some very good folks at what they do, will also stay at a particular employer due to reasons beyond exact dollar amounts. ie I took a pass on an offer made by a competitor that would have had a significant impact on my take home pay. (An increase)

Not that I'd mind some extra money. However, I make "enough". Enough so that I'm comfortable with the takehome. And the difference isn't enough to interest me given some other considerations. I happen to like the people I work with where I'm at. Like the atmosphere, the types of jobs, employer isn't tight fisted about providing needed tools and materials. Not free about it either. But show em good reasons, they'll get yah what yah need. They don't tend to micro-manage. Mid-level management down to field people are given a pretty fair amount of slack and leeway, and responsibility and authority, for managing their own jobs and the way they go about them. Etc.

Liking where I work, and whom I work for, counts for a lot actually. <Shrug> Here, they may piss me off some time in the future, I don't know ... my crystal ball isn't working so well these days, but for now ... I like the job, working conditions, the place, and the people (most of em). So I'm not inclined to be moving. Tho if the difference offered was a LOT ... heck, I might consider it.

Maybe. But not from the outfit that made most recent offer to me. I know some about em. And I'm thinking they haven't got enough money to make me WANT to work for em. I won't go into all the details, suffice it to say they pay better than most ... but keep losing people. Several of their ex-employees are people I know. Who pretty much figured that the management and working enviornment of the place just simply sucks.

Just some general thoughts I've had reading this thread.

Fact is, market place often drives wages. A business that can't attract people of the quality that particular business needs in order to do business ... is gonna fold. It's that simple. One which pays employees more than they can afford given what local customers are willing to pay for the products and services ... isn't gonna make enough profit to stay in business.

It's pretty much as simple as that.

If you are, in fact, severely under-paid, it should be really easy for yah to find someone who'll pay you more ... what you think you're worth.

If they're not making that kinda offer to you ... well, think about it. Maybe it's time to start your own business, move locales to a better one where there is more and better paying business, or time to change your field of work, ... or maybe your opinion of your worth ... is just your opinion but doesn't reflect reality.

Not a slam at yah. Hell, I don't know yah. Besides, a few times in my own life I found out I wasn't nearly so good as I'd thought I was at the time.

[hvac45]

Very good post.

[R12rules]

There is no such thing as loyalty anymore.

An employer is a necessary evil, in MOST CASES!

And they are the cause of this dilema.


sad but true.

[rickl]

[

[Edited by rickl on 04-12-2006 at 09:11 AM]

[dirtyboy103us]

well I'm back and now the proud owner of a passed contractors
exam with the opportunity to build it and hope they come or call or what ever... i will see how much trouble it really is
and all the risks involved in starting a business
and what i have to offer the business world
i figure it will take me at least a complete year to raise
enough capital and accounts and a business plan to start
and have a good start

i will not be anyone's employee ... now i will be their competition


Florida A contractors exam

[isitfixedyet]

Originally posted by dirtyboy103us
why do owners try to cheap out on paying key people in their organizations.... with trust and loyalty so hard to find out there... when one of your key persons starts looking for something better its more than likely a dollar or two is not going to satisfy them after they find out their potential market value, myself i would feel like a friend had cheated me and my family an employer/employee relationship is like a marriage ... the trust would be gone like me!! IF THE SHOE WAS ON THE OTHER FOOT? WOW , FORGET ABOUT IT!

[frozensolid]

I pay people what they are worth (or as close as possible). Also I give them as a team 10% of the net. I call it the "one team bonus". Right now many of my employees are overpaid, that was my choice. I will either teach them to be better, or if I can't they will be down the road. You know what they say, Change the people, or change the people.

When an A/C God walks into my office and tells me how much they are worth, I ask them use a drum of R-22 in my office and tell me the temperature in the office. Care to guess how many can? Not many.

If they can and can go anywhere and fix anything they will get $25.00 per hr easy. Now it's up to them and go out and keep it. If they can't, they won't work for me very long.

Prima donna's need not apply.

P.S. It seems that the guys who think they are great are the ones my customers tell me don't know what they are doing.

When you are really that good you will get what you earn where ever you go.

[ARPA]

Originally posted by frozensolid
I pay people what they are worth (or as close as possible). Also I give them as a team 10% of the net. I call it the "one team bonus". Right now many of my employees are overpaid, that was my choice. I will either teach them to be better, or if I can't they will be down the road. You know what they say, Change the people, or change the people.

When an A/C God walks into my office and tells me how much they are worth, I ask them use a drum of R-22 in my office and tell me the temperature in the office. Care to guess how many can? Not many.

If they can and can go anywhere and fix anything they will get $25.00 per hr easy. Now it's up to them and go out and keep it. If they can't, they won't work for me very long.

Prima donna's need not apply.

P.S. It seems that the guys who think they are great are the ones my customers tell me don't know what they are doing.

When you are really that good you will get what you earn where ever you go.


I like that idea. I try to keep my office at 123 psi.....
Sounds as if you are doing alot better than R.L., IMO.