Mechanical Engineer - What a difference!

[JulieMor]

I just had another contractor out to provide an estimate on replacing the HVAC equipment in my home. The guy is a mechanical engineer. Right off the bat he begins to explain WHY and HOW things work, don't work and should work. He was a wealth of information!

Maybe some homeowners don't want to know how things work and why what they have doesn't work but just want to hear "Everything will be fine!" The first three guys said pretty much that and it just left me feeling uncomfortable. That's why I kept looking. I needed to know.

Changes from the existing system:
- removing the bottom of the furnace and making that the return opening
- installing the humidifier in the return
- installing a passive air humidifier rather than fan blown
- going with a single stage condenser
- NOT upsizing the condenser coil
- installing a cased coil
- installing vanes and scoops as needed

Guy #1 went through the house, measured the rooms and windows but came up with about 20K over the manual J report.
Guy #2 asked what the 1st guy was installing and gave me a price on that. He also told me to install branch run dampers
Guy #3 priced the furnace and condenser then optioned out the rest, which put him way over the first two

I just never got comfortable with any of them. I was even considering waiting until the old one just crapped out.

I'm glad I didn't give up.

[beshvac]

Excellent!!!!

I am an ME also, and it's great to have a call like yours where your expertise is appreciated and not that bubba says my ductwork is fine and he has been doing this for 20 years..........

[maintenanceguy]

The most important part of the sales process is to educate your customer.

[Twilly]

The most important part of the sales process is to educate your customer.

Twilly says 100% wrong!!!! Twilly says the most important part is to close the prospect. Twilly says they are not your customer until they do business with you. Just sayin.

[Diceman]

Not a big fan of bypass humidifiers, they are cheaper than power ones is all.

Just cause he is a ME and talks a good game doesn't mean he can play one.
Give me a good trades guy for the install.

[Southern Mech]

Mechanical Engineer defined

one who can definately baffle you with his B.S. rather than dazzle you with brilliance.

not all are like that, but most that I know that are ''mechanical engineers'' and still in the residential bussiness follow that line above.

[JulieMor]

I know full well the friction between engineers and tradespeople. I've had a few head butts with engineers in my time. Once, when I told an engineer the 40" wide disconnect won't fit in the 31" space on the wall and asked him where he would like it installed instead, he looked at the wall, then the disconnect, then his blueprints. Then he turned to me and said (pointing to the blueprints that showed the disconnect on that wall), "Right here. See? It fits." :gah:

Finally I had one of my guys hold the disconnect in the place the engineer wanted it and said, "Do you want me to cut down the cabinet or should we move it to another wall?" He moved it to another wall.

The guy who was here today wasn't that kind of engineer. He made sense. I was never baffled. In fact what he was saying made perfect sense. I've had 25 years trying to imagine how to get air to flow to the places it's supposed to go. I just thought the duct work left me SOL. He pointed out it's not getting the air flowing OUT of the furnace that's the problem, it's getting air flowing IN that's the problem. And I knew he was right.

So maybe his engineering degree wasn't the real factor that sold me on this guy. It was his common sense, his ability to answer my questions, his knowledge of aerodynamics and the fact he actually presented a solution rather than simply saying, "The new system will solve your problems."

Twilly, the first three guys took your approach. They lost the deal. Some people just want to know what it is they are buying.

[Twilly]

Twilly, the first three guys took your approach. They lost the deal. Some people just want to know what it is they are buying.

Twilly says in fact you missed the point, the first three guys didn't close the "deal" thats the most important part. Twilly says obviously they left you feeling like something was missing and the "engineer" provided that.

Twilly says was it really because he was an engineer or a good salesman, Twilly would say saleman. Twilly can produce a line of contractors a mile long who have "educated" the customer and yet they bought from someone else for a mulitude of reasons.

Twilly says and sticks by educating the customer IS not the most important part of the sales process.

Twilly could teach a class on this very subject, and for that Twilly would have to charge you, so no free education today.

Twilly is glad you found someone that you like, trust and feel will meet the needs of you and your family.

Best of luck to you and please report back to us and let us know how everything went.

[Gib's Son]

I know full well the friction between engineers and tradespeople. I've had a few head butts with engineers in my time.

It's why I'm always arguing with myself. Sometimes I win, sometimes I lose.

[beshvac]

It's why I'm always arguing with myself. Sometimes I win, sometimes I lose.

:cheers:

[hvacker]

You have to read the customer. Sometimes the best way to close is to educate. Once I had a woman facility manager when I was presenting a contract really wanted to go over my manual N load form. Legal sheet two sides. So we did. We closed.
Given a choice I'd rather work with an engineer. They almost always have a deeper understanding of systems.

The best sales people aren't necessarly the ones that make sales but the ones that control the sale. That's saying not giving what the customer wants but what they need.
Just saying

[JulieMor]

It's why I'm always arguing with myself. Sometimes I win, sometimes I lose.

If you changed hats fast enough, you'd always win. :grin2:

[tstcstu]

You can buy the most expensive equipment with all the bells & whistles and have the "Engineer" run all sorts of load but If I were I would be more concern with the installers then a sales man. I would ask them before they come out if they use a micron gauge and how they check the charge on system if they dont say by superheat or subcooling find somebody else.

[BaldLoonie]

I sold for 15 years before my HVAC career and I sold for about the first 10 of my HVAC career. MY sales technique was educate the customer, get them comfortable with me & my product then they'd buy from me. It worked great. Despite being a no pressure salesman, my record at selling is good.

Today, most salespeople tend to be taught closing methods, not product knowledge. So they use their closing methods and pressure and pricing games to get you to buy. We sure see it around here. Works fine for a lot of people but there are some, often those who are concerned about what they'll have in their house for 20 years, that want to know what the real skinny is.

I've always told people on here and most say the same thing: buy from the one who you are most comfortable with. Well, the OP found the one for her.

[energy star]

How did you know he was an engineer before he came out for the estimate?

[JulieMor]

How did you know he was an engineer before he came out for the estimate?

I didn't. He showed up. I grilled him. And he came back and answered every question with logical, common sense answers. SOMETHING WAS WRONG!

I'm a female anomaly. That's what I've been told by the guys I've worked with over the years. I understand how things work. I don't know why. But mechanical things fascinate me. Maybe it was that steam engine I saw in grade school back in the 50's. :whistle:

After a while he told me he was an ME. It made sense.

But I am not one to say, "Okay. That's good" and sign on the dotted line. I worked out everything he told me last night and some things didn't make sense.

I woke up at 3:30 this morning with those things rolling around in my head. By 5AM I had a laundry list of questions prepared for him and was ready to walk away if they weren't answered to my satisfaction. Even though Carrier's rebates ended today.

I sent him the email. He stopped by the house around noon. We discussed my concerns. He explained what he was proposing and I realized I didn't fully understand his plan. Then it made sense. On top of that he had already figured in options the others hadn't, the same options I was about to ask him for the adder cost.

I get the impression this guy is anal about things working properly. That makes this a perfect fit because few are as anal as I am.

I may not know HVAC very well, but I have been called Picasso in my trade. Does that make me a trade nerd?

[btuhack]

Julie, it's great you were able to find the right solution/contractor.

If you would, please go back to your first thread and post an answer your own question, that way, the next homeowner/reader doesn't have to wonder if its a good idea to DIY.

[Diceman]

I sold for 15 years before my HVAC career and I sold for about the first 10 of my HVAC career. MY sales technique was educate the customer, get them comfortable with me & my product then they'd buy from me. It worked great. Despite being a no pressure salesman, my record at selling is good.

Today, most salespeople tend to be taught closing methods, not product knowledge. So they use their closing methods and pressure and pricing games to get you to buy. We sure see it around here. Works fine for a lot of people but there are some, often those who are concerned about what they'll have in their house for 20 years, that want to know what the real skinny is.

I've always told people on here and most say the same thing: buy from the one who you are most comfortable with. Well, the OP found the one for her.
True and ya didn't have to be an engineer either.:grin2:

[flange]

an me selling residential systems? doesnt seem to add up, but what do I know?

[Diceman]

an me selling residential systems? doesnt seem to add up, but what do I know?

Good point there, is he really an ME?:whistle:

[Gib's Son]

Why not? Perhaps he is an owner like myself.

[Green Mountain]

I've had professional sales training and now I teach salesmanship.

The main thing any salesman has to do to be successful is to identify the dominant buying motive that the customer has. The first 3 guys fail to do that. The last guy (ME) apparently took the time to find out what the customer REALLY wanted.

The customer is really asking, "what's in it for me???" If you don't answer that question then you ain't getting the job. Telling the customer how great you, your company and equipment is NOT answering the question of "what's in it for me?"