reverseing valve need help installing [Archive] - HVAC-Talk: Heating, Air & Refrigeration Discussion

flip67

09-30-2011, 10:04 PM

jmac00

09-30-2011, 10:57 PM

I usually hang a wet cloth on the coil to protect it from the flame.

My suggestion to installing a RV, use Stay-Brite 5% silver solder. It melts at 436°F, always try and point the flame away from the valve body, wrap the body with wet cloth, do one tube at a time then cool it off, if you try and do all of them you'll cook the valve.

we all have our own opinions on how to do things, but that's what I do and it work for me

Good luck

simplyrollin

10-01-2011, 04:32 PM

There is no easy way to install a reversing valve. They all will make you want a shot of crown!

Davelm

10-01-2011, 05:00 PM

sometimes it's easier to take the coil out, replace the valv, then put the coil back in.

aikenite

10-02-2011, 11:23 AM

jeremyhall.tech.sc

10-02-2011, 11:30 AM

i use "gutter glue" ..NOT... :grin2:

i use either of the methods mentioned above just depends on the situation .

i have to say though high heat and quick brazing usually gets me through.

very hot very fast.... not to much heat transfer.:.02:

jmac00

10-02-2011, 12:17 PM

I have found that sometimes it is easier to cut the old valve out and braze stubs in outside of the unit also. However this does bring up an interesting question; What do you guys use to braze reversing valves? I have always used Sil-Fos but I can"t help but wonder if there"s not something better?

see post #2, Stray-Brite melts at 430°F and has the same tensile strength as braze, the issue is the price. One pound costs a small fortune and you must use there flux.

SwampTromper

10-02-2011, 12:17 PM

Don't use solder on a 410 unit, the manufacturers say that the high side pressure is too high. Ive never tried it, but Ill take their word for it.

jmac00

10-02-2011, 12:41 PM

Don't use solder on a 410 unit, the manufacturers say that the high side pressure is too high. Ive never tried it, but Ill take their word for it.

time to put a call into Stay-Brite and see what they say. *supposedly* it has the same tensile strength as Sil-phos??? :whistle:

marvin

10-02-2011, 01:02 PM

i put 2 valves in earlier this year with sta brite on 410a systems
& so far they are holding up well.

Cooked

10-02-2011, 01:33 PM

Reversing valves are for helpers. Make him do it and then cuss him out real good when it leaks. Your helper will feel like crap and develop self esteem issues but you'll feel superior.

Of course I'm just kidding. RV's can be (and usually are) a royal PITA. I have used 15% with success on both R22 and R410 systems but the liquidus temp is 1465F so you have to get it hot. Use an oxy/acetylene rig and hit it quick and clean. You should not have to have your torch on the tube for more than 15 seconds or so. Wrap the valve with strips of dripping wet cloth and do the tubes one at a time.

jmac00 are you sure you're not referring to Stay-Silv 5% as opposed to Stay-Brite 8% ??? The Harris website doesn't list a Stay-Brite 5% but does list 8% with 430F liquidus

jmac00

10-02-2011, 02:13 PM

jmac00 are you sure you're not referring to Stay-Silv 5% as opposed to Stay-Brite 8% ??? The Harris website doesn't list a Stay-Brite 5% but does list 8% with 430F liquidus

my apologizes, you maybe right. I thought the guy said 5%, but it maybe 8%. All the roll says is "Stay-Brite....Silver-Bearing solder" RoHS compliant.

I got this stuff to solder in a Modulating mixing valve. It did cost me $60freaking dollars for a one pound roll and $20 bucks for the flux :mad:

I really like the stuff, low melting point, excellent flow, excellent tensile strength:cheers:

bmathews

10-02-2011, 10:17 PM

Charge them so much for the RV change that they buy a new unit.

KB Cool

10-02-2011, 10:41 PM

Send the job to me. I'll get it done!:grin2:

Tommy1010

10-03-2011, 08:34 AM

weld copper stubs on the rv before you install it

never use solder/staybrite on any hot gas line or 410a

a helper installing an RV "negative"

pony

10-03-2011, 10:34 PM

any common on stay silva 15,i use few time and it work well for me,jusr pricy,

stickinit2thman

10-04-2011, 02:51 AM

Charge them so much for the RV change that they buy a new unit.your kiddn right? man thats the polar opposite of me

stickinit2thman

10-04-2011, 02:55 AM

your kiddn right? man thats the polar opposite of mewith a few exceptions ie excessive age or poor gen condition ill encourage repair. Getting alot of customers that way,in this economy more people are repairing instead of replacing!

Thomasg

10-06-2011, 08:10 PM

I've purged with nitrogen and cut stubs off at body of valve. Cut permanent discharge first and purge out that side so shavings dont get in system. Then you can heat each stub 1 at a time. Installing valve still sucks but feels good when done lol.

jmac00

10-06-2011, 08:34 PM

Swampfox

10-06-2011, 11:20 PM

If the 3 pipes are facing up I cut out with a sawzall right at the valve body, then sweat the stubs off 1 at a time, If they face down I use 2 torches and a helper to sweat the valve out, then braze the new one in, pour water on the valve body after each stub, the key is use a lot of heat and get it brazed in quick

Can get them done pretty fast this way

KB Cool

10-07-2011, 12:04 AM

I don't know! I just put my ove glove on and unsweat them.:grin2: Here's the last one i did on a 10 ton trane. 1 1/8 X 5/8". I also use about a whole tube of heat paste. Makes a mess, but...............

crmont

10-08-2011, 04:09 PM

.
http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/attachment.php?attachmentid=160761&stc=1&d=1297227798

http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/attachment.php?attachmentid=160771&stc=1&d=1297227798

http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/attachment.php?attachmentid=160781&stc=1&d=1297227798

http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/attachment.php?attachmentid=160791&stc=1&d=1297227798

http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/attachment.php?attachmentid=160801&stc=1&d=1297227798

http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=751251&highlight=valve

aikenite

10-08-2011, 05:51 PM

That is a good looking job!What type of rod did you use?

Ritt98

10-08-2011, 06:03 PM

Very well thought out and executed!!

marvin

11-09-2011, 10:04 PM

Don't use solder on a 410 unit, the manufacturers say that the high side pressure is too high. Ive never tried it, but Ill take their word for it.

i have sta brite on several 410 units & have had no problems

suBcools

11-10-2011, 11:26 PM

I always do it a very similar way to what crmont just showed pics of. I'll cut the lines a ways down line from the valve with my tubing cutter, then unsweat them all from the valve one at a time. I'll then fit it all back together, and braze one line at a time. It has been the best method I've found for changing out RV's. In my opinion, the most important part of an RV job is protecting the new valve from the heat. I'll use damn near a full tube of thermotrap, and then wrap that all up with a cold/wet rag. Be quick with the torch, and precise with the braze rod. I've never used solder on a RV, and would be hesitant since discharge gas is going through that RV.

As far as protecting a coil from the heat or something like that, I'll use one of those fire resistant pads, and place it between the part I'm trying to protect and the heat. I think it's made of asbestos or something.

AC5096

11-11-2011, 08:30 AM

I've installed RV's with Sta-Brite 8 for years without any problems. About the only time I've used sil-fos is, if I had good access to the valve.

Haven't done a 410 A RV, might be a little hesitant using Sta-Brite 8.

Chris_Worthington

11-11-2011, 10:10 AM

Saw zaw close to the valve body, unsweat the old connections, place new valve in, braze in, poof done :D

Paste and rags on valve.

jeremyhall.tech.sc

11-11-2011, 02:55 PM

.

http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/attachment.php?attachmentid=160801&stc=1&d=1297227798

http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=751251&highlight=valve

i seen the first picture and was thinking , dang thats like factory welds, then i scrolled down and noticed its like mine usually look........ a question though , in the last picture there is a can of wd-40 laying in the base, whats that about?

crmont

11-17-2011, 05:49 PM

i seen the first picture and was thinking , dang thats like factory welds, then i scrolled down and noticed its like mine usually look........ a question though , in the last picture there is a can of wd-40 laying in the base, whats that about?

Just keeping stuff in place while welding.

crmont

11-17-2011, 06:02 PM

Saw zaw close to the valve body, unsweat the old connections, place new valve in, braze in, poof done :D

Paste and rags on valve.

It's harder to keep air out of the system when three lines are open simultaneously.

I try not to heat up an open pipe if I have options.

Copper shavings in the discharge line is inevitable using a saw in this case.

This is a 2 year old r410 system under warranty.

catmanacman

11-19-2011, 07:46 AM

Can anyone of you guys please help me out i installed a reverseing valve on a trane split heat pump it was very difficult to weld in the vavle was very close to the outdoor coil just want to know if anyone has a easier technique and would be willing to share the knowledge i would be very thankful

grab it and pull it away from the coil sounds crude but you have to give yourself some working room and then slide a piece of sheet metal behind it to protect the coil from the torch it is still a pain but at least your not trying to hang upside down to weld it in

Swampfox

11-20-2011, 11:07 AM

Copper shavings in the discharge line is inevitable using a saw in this case.

This is a 2 year old r410 system under warranty.

Not if you disconnect it first

crmont

11-21-2011, 01:13 AM

Not if you disconnect it first

The point being that you can't keep air out of the system if three lines are cut then each line heated up individually. If the RV is cut out with a tubing cutter then each line can be kept sealed and purged of air.

Besides, the weld is never as good as when starting with a clean joint. These cheap RV's don't need any more excused to fail.