No more Lennox Pulse controls

[freefall]

I was told Lennox is going to stop the production of pulse control boards. Ouch, Just like the heat exchanger warranty, they have a key compontent replacement program. The get a furnace installed for $575. I love someone telling me what Im going to charge to insall a furnace. we may walk from these warranty installs. Anyway, anyone know if there is going to be a replacement control from aftermarket company? We have a bunch out there that are in great shape and i'd hate to tell a customer that their no heat call means they need a new furn. ideas??

[coolwhip]

Why?....I wouldn't mind telling them to get a new furnace...probably about time anyway.

I think its been almost 14 years since they made the Pulse hasn't it? The few that I see running out there are older still....time for the new stuff.

[doc havoc]

The problem is, up until about 8 years ago, heat exchangers were still being replaced under the warranty/recall. So, technically, the customers that received new heat exchangers have a furnace that's only 8-10 years old.

[gregp]

one for a Dr's office last week. Lennox main HQ said no longer available. Called local Lennox Parts-Plus, had it UPS next day. I did an online search, and the controls are still out there. Johnson Controls made the one I got. Lennox HQ said they will offer the customer a discount on a new furnace since this is a "critical part" that is no longer available. We're not a Lennox dealer, so that doesn't help my customers much. But I understand once these controls are gone, that's it. Oh, and when you do find them, they are pricey.

[ezair1]

Freefall, you better check your paperwork. Lennox doesn't tell anyone what to charge for the install, the customer gets the replacement furnace for $575.00. It's up to the dealer what the install charge is.

[freefall]

Lennox states you may not charge more than 575 for the install. they even posted a questions and answer and #14 says you can not charge more than $575 FOR THE INSTALLATION. I'll post the pdf files monday.

[ezair1]

You mean this? No mention of installation except in 15.

14. Q. Do I have flexibility in the amount that I charge the homeowner for the price of the furnace?
A. No. Since this is a warranty transaction, you must charge the homeowner the fixed price for the furnace as outlined in the procedure.
15. Q. Will Lennox contribute toward the installation of the replacement furnace?
A. No. This is considered labor and installation related cost and is not covered under the warranty.

Or this from the replacement form.

Check the one statement that applies and have the homeowner sign and date.
Option 1: Replacement. I hereby certify (1) that the heat exchanger for my Pulse furnace is eligible for warranty and (2) that my Lennox dealer has determined a key component in this Pulse furnace requires replacement and this part is no longer available. For a failed heat exchanger, my Lennox dealer has performed the pressure test and determined it requires replacement. This dealer has replaced my Lennox Pulse furnace with a new furnace. This replacement furnace (except for labor, shipping and additional materials) was provided at a reduced cost.

Like I said, read the paperwork.

[geo user]

I just recently tried to buy a pulse board for a G21. I have in stock the board for the G14 pulse. Are they both unavailable?

[Music Seeker]

:censored:, do these :censored: idiots know how many Pulse furnaces are still out there running like a top!? Not ALL of them are in warranty.

So they're outmoding the best damn furnace they ever built so they can make more money selling the junk that only needs tuned up every year and it will be a workhorse?

I'm surprised there aren't a bunch of guys out there trying to figure out how to fix a Pulse with aftermarket controls that aren't meant for the Pulse.

I've not had a single day where I haven't had my hands on at least three Pulse furnaces. Hell, most days I MAYBE touch a G51-SLP98...there are so many of them still here in the hometown of Lennox that it's obscene that these are going by the wayside. You want to talk about national treasure?

:censored:, we're going to have so many cheesed off customers when we run out of these boards! Anyone know if you can make the Pulse work with an aftermarket Honeywell board and some slight modifications? Could you just run the CAB full-time during the heating call??

This blows ass, I REALLY hope mine doesn't die, because if it does, I'm screwed, I don't have a warranty replacement coming to me...so there's about $2000 I don't want to spend!

[t527ed]

I just recently tried to buy a pulse board for a G21. I have in stock the board for the G14 pulse. Are they both unavailable?


both use the same module

[geo user]

I thought the G21 had 2 spark plugs.

[blk4hvac]

To all concerned, with any luck, there will be an offshoot company, like Galt Industries in York, PA did back when YORK needed a computerized defrost module designed and built in the mid 1970s, that will buy the schematic off Lennox---who bought it from Hitachi, by the way---to build the replacement control. Don't expect them to come cheap. Oh, and Yes, I have repaired a couple in my basement in the past.
BLK

[Music Seeker]

To all concerned, with any luck, there will be an offshoot company, like Galt Industries in York, PA did back when YORK needed a computerized defrost module designed and built in the mid 1970s, that will buy the schematic off Lennox---who bought it from Hitachi, by the way---to build the replacement control. Don't expect them to come cheap. Oh, and Yes, I have repaired a couple in my basement in the past.
BLK

See, if I could find a way to mimic the board, that'd be epic!

There's an aftermarket honeywell board with spark and sense on it, all that would be needed should be to control the CAB so it will kick off after say 2 minutes, and then who knows.

[blk4hvac]

Interesting to note: I worked on the HydroTherm HydroPulse back in the 80s and early 90s...and just for the record, this was an awful field performer for high efficiency, even if it was simple and efficient. (but off the track I go.) The original versions used a clockwork timer control with stepped cam-actuated switches, to sequence in the gas valve and a single-lead ignition transformer, of the type used on commercial gas burners. (They were a true ***** to service.) Food for the inventor's thoughts.

[mike dixon]

the pulse furnace is junk

[HeyBob]

I have about 12 of those 60J00 controls. I will sell them at my cost to any HVAC-Talk Pro Member that needs one.

I never should have posted this where everyone could see it, no more controls are available to anyone! As of 11/09/2011

[Music Seeker]

Actually, they have a strong track record. Most of the ones here in town require a new control, we've replaced very few heat exchangers, and hell, now, if the HX goes, we replace it.

[pacnw]

the pulse furnace is junk

don't understand them?

that is usually the comment from someone who does not know how to work on them.

still one of, if not the most, efficient gas units out there!!

[blk4hvac]

Agreed. The Pulse is "junk" is the proper response, if you have no experience working on them. Taken as a whole, there are three faults that I had to deal with regularly, and if you worked on them, you know what they are, and how to tell just by listening.

And by the way, did I mention you didn't have to carry eight inducers on your truck (one for each generation of 90%)?

[gregp]

I have about 12 of those 60J00 controls. I will sell them at my cost to any HVAC-Talk Pro Member that needs one.

very kind of you, sir. I'm sure someone will take you up on that.

[geo user]

I don't work alot on pulses. I use to work for a large Lennox dealer 2nd largest dealer in Michigan. I put an awful lot of G26's in and probably a couple dozen pulses between 1991 and 1998. I have changed heat exchangers in early 90's. If the unit did not have the heat exchanger trouble it was a reliable furnace. I know several that are aproaching 28 years old and still running. Most service calls were flappers. Until now that I can not get the control for G21. Someone said it was the same control as the G14. I had them side by side and it wasnot the same. I don't care for the Pulse but I dissagree they are not junk.

[Music Seeker]

Agreed. The Pulse is "junk" is the proper response, if you have no experience working on them. Taken as a whole, there are three faults that I had to deal with regularly, and if you worked on them, you know what they are, and how to tell just by listening.

I'll bite: The control (either failing on sending 120v to the CAB, or failing altogether), The blower motor (or relay), and the air flapper material torn or worn out.

[d d boyer]

I've been working on Pulses for almost 20 years, along with everything else. Give me a Pulse any day! I'd rather be selling them still compared to some of the over complicated computer controlled stuff we have now.
I bought my last 60J00 last week...just means more back breaking work, replacing a good furnace, since you can't get a control.

[martyinlincoln]

Not a lot of Pulses left here. Replaced most of them already due to failed heat exchanger pressure test.

[geo user]

What was the difference between the G14 and G21 pulse?

[t527ed]

What was the difference between the G14 and G21 pulse?


G21 was the 2nd generation, kinder quieter pulse...:whistle:

it had the plastic air flapper housing that melted and fell off, also used timer circuit for blower control instead of a fan/limit switch.

[t527ed]

I don't work alot on pulses. I use to work for a large Lennox dealer 2nd largest dealer in Michigan. I put an awful lot of G26's in and probably a couple dozen pulses between 1991 and 1998. I have changed heat exchangers in early 90's. If the unit did not have the heat exchanger trouble it was a reliable furnace. I know several that are aproaching 28 years old and still running. Most service calls were flappers. Until now that I can not get the control for G21. Someone said it was the same control as the G14. I had them side by side and it wasnot the same. I don't care for the Pulse but I dissagree they are not junk.


the 60j00 is the replacement ignition control module for EVERY pulse ever made.

[John Markl]

don't understand them?

that is usually the comment from someone who does not know how to work on them.


Reminds me of a guy that I used to have....His favorite phrase was "it's a POS and they need a new one".....which translated to "I don't know how to fix it".....:LOL:

[pacnw]

Reminds me of a guy that I used to have....His favorite phrase was "it's a POS and they need a new one".....which translated to "I don't know how to fix it".....:LOL:

I work for a Lennox dealer and there was no training on them when they turned me loose.

Boy did I misdiagnose my first few.

Got familiar with them and not so bad. As was said, they are much easier and more reliable than many of the newer units!!

[nratom45-70]

The problem is, up until about 8 years ago, heat exchangers were still being replaced under the warranty/recall. So, technically, the customers that received new heat exchangers have a furnace that's only 8-10 years old.

Not if the other components in the furnace are older.

[wahoo]

We actually have a 40k Pulse heating our main office, and think we've maybe replaced the ignition control once in about 17-18 years. That's the only part needed so far!!! But really aggravates me that Lennox is basically abandoning their customers like this, and dumping on their own dealers with this $575 furnace crap....but hey that's atta boy Dave!!! Wait till all those solar units crap out.......:cheers:

[doc havoc]

Not if the other components in the furnace are older.

True, somewhat. The new HX came with new air and gas diaphram assemblies, new condensate trap assembly and new sound dampening grommets. The inducer blowers rarely fail, the ignition controls (once updated) rarely fail, the gas valves rarely fail, the pressure switch doesn't even seem to do anything, let alone fail, the blower control board (again, rarely fails). That leaves the blower motor, which can be done with a belly band and universal motor if necessary.

So, while the other components may not be as new as the HX, they all have a very good track record for reliability/longevity.

[Music Seeker]

We actually have a 40k Pulse heating our main office, and think we've maybe replaced the ignition control once in about 17-18 years. That's the only part needed so far!!! But really aggravates me that Lennox is basically abandoning their customers like this, and dumping on their own dealers with this $575 furnace crap....but hey that's atta boy Dave!!! Wait till all those solar units crap out.......:cheers:

Indeed!

[Mario7]

Lennox just found out that tha company that makes the ignition control is getting out of the control board business.

[Music Seeker]

Lennox just found out that tha company that makes the ignition control is getting out of the control board business.

Any clue if another aftermarket company will pick up those controls? Or are we going to have to homebrew a solution by using a Honeywell DSI board and some kind of delay for the CAB?

[geo user]

I don't know how a Honeywell DSI board would work. You have to have continuous spark and shutt of the CAB. For Any pulses that are still working when replaced. installer can sell board on internet.

[Music Seeker]

I don't know how a Honeywell DSI board would work. You have to have continuous spark and shutt of the CAB. For Any pulses that are still working when replaced. installer can sell board on internet.

Don't hook up the flame sense wire so it lasts six seconds?? Crap...yeah...this is a lot harder than it looks. Might have to start de-soldering old Pulse boards and replacing components. There's at least 2,500 Pulses in my company's home town alone! That's not including the areas our county and several around us where we serve the bordering towns...Then we're up near 12k.

[Music Seeker]

Wait a minute. What if we figured out what on the board doesn't work, and then took that wire off the molex, and wired it hot through some kind of a delay, like in case of the CAB, some sort of delay off relay?

[doc havoc]

I don't know how a Honeywell DSI board would work. You have to have continuous spark and shutt of the CAB. For Any pulses that are still working when replaced. installer can sell board on internet.

You only need spark until ignition is proved. The heat from the previous "pulse" is what ignites the following "pulse".

[wahoo]

If you actually "modify" a part, then won't that greatly increase your company's potential liablility? I'd never want the exposure this could bring! But surely someone will actually build a control and get it on the market for these furnaces. Probably won't be cheap however. :gah:

[Music Seeker]

You only need spark until ignition is proved. The heat from the previous "pulse" is what ignites the following "pulse".

So in theory you just need to shut off the CAB? Could make that happen fairly painlessly if these do go by the wayside...

[Peztoy]

Can't say I see many of these much anymore. This thing is jammed up to the ceiling, one foot from the wall on the controls side.

I called Lennox. No we no longer support this product was the response. Buy a new furnace was their answer. If you buy a new furnace from us we'll give you a credit. But, you need to be a Lennox dealer and it must be in a residential application.

I'm out on both counts.

I saw these ignition modules online that are supposed to be direct replacements. Are they still available. I hope so. This business is moving out in 6 months. I'd hate to tell him to buy a new furnace.

Johnson Control G891TCA-8103 or part # 73K8601
and Baso BGN891-1C

[Music Seeker]

Can't say I see many of these much anymore. This thing is jammed up to the ceiling, one foot from the wall on the controls side.

I called Lennox. No we no longer support this product was the response. Buy a new furnace was their answer. If you buy a new furnace from us we'll give you a credit. But, you need to be a Lennox dealer and it must be in a residential application.

I'm out on both counts.

I saw these ignition modules online that are supposed to be direct replacements. Are they still available. I hope so. This business is moving out in 6 months. I'd hate to tell him to buy a new furnace.

Johnson Control G891TCA-8103 or part # 73K8601
and Baso BGN891-1C

The Baso is the new control, it's cheap, in limited quantity currently, and Lennox dealers are stocking it. I guess a lot of people are pissed about the controls. I've thought about buying one to field test it in my own Pulse.

[fartbutstudly]

Not a fan...

Lennox won't sell parts to non-dealers, they make a good product, but due to their policies, I walk ... why jump thru hoops when there's plenty of other stuff to work on out there...

[jwiehagen76]

Worked for the biggest Lennox dealers in my area when i got started in the industry in the early 90's. Installed tons of g-23, g-26, and a few pulses. Every year a rep from factory one come out with my crew and test and then remove a pulse and we would install a new one. A while later got notice of the heat exchanger issues. Not a fan but it worked well when they worked.

[craig1]

Not a fan...

Lennox won't sell parts to non-dealers, they make a good product, but due to their policies, I walk ... why jump thru hoops when there's plenty of other stuff to work on out there...

Lennox opened up a supply house near me two years ago. Since then I've been buying parts and filing warranty claims with no problems. They even set me up with a DaveNet account so I can file claims online. Im not a dealer. The only thing I can't do is buy equipment.

[Benny99]

But really aggravates me that Lennox is basically abandoning their customers like this,

I don't understand why Lennox should have to keep supporting furnaces that are at best roughly 15 years old and at worst over 30 years old. No other company has to do that. If your furnace is that old it's time for a bloody new one already. In fact the support Lennox has already given those things far exceeds what any any other company has ever done with their furnaces.

[Music Seeker]

I don't understand why Lennox should have to keep supporting furnaces that are at best roughly 15 years old and at worst over 30 years old. No other company has to do that. If your furnace is that old it's time for a bloody new one already. In fact the support Lennox has already given those things far exceeds what any any other company has ever done with their furnaces.

They designed them to work like a beast when they worked well. Sorry people like to get the most out of their furnaces. Especially when it's $4k for a changeout. Or of they get an SLP98 it's like $3800 installed. A lot of people want these things to last for the long haul. If you can at least just replace the control, you'll solve a lot of issues. The way Lennox has been treating this, just dropping the supply chain all the sudden, without a heads-up for the dealers. We could have got ahead of the curve and offered the customers either a fresh board or got the ball rolling on a changeout. (The boards are notoriously weak)

[Benny99]

Sorry people like to get the most out of their furnaces. A lot of people want these things to last for the long haul.

Design life is 18-20 years. That's reality. That's basically three furnaces in a persons lifetime. How many vehicles do you go through in that same time period at 20k to 60k a pop?

[chuckcrj]

They designed them to work like a beast when they worked well. Sorry people like to get the most out of their furnaces. Especially when it's $4k for a changeout. Or of they get an SLP98 it's like $3800 installed. A lot of people want these things to last for the long haul. If you can at least just replace the control, you'll solve a lot of issues. The way Lennox has been treating this, just dropping the supply chain all the sudden, without a heads-up for the dealers. We could have got ahead of the curve and offered the customers either a fresh board or got the ball rolling on a changeout. (The boards are notoriously weak)

Wow, that's a cheap SLP98, we can't even install a G61 for that price.

[Music Seeker]

Wow, that's a cheap SLP98, we can't even install a G61 for that price.
I'm estimating about 1.75x dealer cost.

[pacnw]

Design life is 18-20 years. That's reality. That's basically three furnaces in a persons lifetime. How many vehicles do you go through in that same time period at 20k to 60k a pop?


standard furnaces may have that design life, but if the control module is the only issue and you already have a furnace that is as efficient as any other you can buy, why spend install cost instead of part cost?

if the car is fully functional minus an electrical part, buy a new car?

[Music Seeker]

standard furnaces may have that design life, but if the control module is the only issue and you already have a furnace that is as efficient as any other you can buy, why spend install cost instead of part cost?

if the car is fully functional minus an electrical part, buy a new car?

:cheers:

[beb]

Design life is 18-20 years. That's reality. That's basically three furnaces in a persons lifetime. How many vehicles do you go through in that same time period at 20k to 60k a pop?

Were is it documented that design life 18-20 yrs. I bet when you sell that furnace you let them know it has a lifetime warranty on the heat exchanger.

[tking6]

Lennox states you may not charge more than 575 for the install. they even posted a questions and answer and #14 says you can not charge more than $575 FOR THE INSTALLATION. I'll post the pdf files monday.

Where is the PDF or we site addr? thanks.

[t527ed]

Where is the PDF or we site addr? thanks.

no pdf or web address since it does not exist.:whistle:

Lennox never set any pricing for the install of the replacement furnace, only the cost to consumer of the furnace itself.

[tking6]

I talked to Lennox and my Furnace unit(model# G2104\5-100-1) is not qualified for the 'replacement' warranty. The component that is bad is the 'Ignition Control' - part# - 60J00. Anyone knows that one flouting around? Thanks for any information!

[Kevin Weaver]

Baso BGN8911-1C is a new replacement module

[madl555]

ORIGINALLY MADE BY BASO. TAKEN OVER BY JOHNSON CONTROLS WHO HAS NOW STOPPED PRODUCTION OF THIS PART & GIVEN IT BACK TO BASO. PART # IS BGN891-1C BASO GAS PRODUCTS. THEY HAVE BEEN BACKORDERED AT BASO TO THE SUPPY HOUSES TIL 02/12. I HAVE ONE SHIPPING DIRECT AT THIS TIME. JOHNSTONE KNOWS ABOUT THEN AND SO DOES CD JONES CO.

[terryhill]

I was told Lennox is going to stop the production of pulse control boards. Ouch, Just like the heat exchanger warranty, they have a key compontent replacement program. The get a furnace installed for $575. I love someone telling me what Im going to charge to insall a furnace. we may walk from these warranty installs. Anyway, anyone know if there is going to be a replacement control from aftermarket company? We have a bunch out there that are in great shape and i'd hate to tell a customer that their no heat call means they need a new furn. ideas??

Were in Central NY state. Goodman also has a policy of furnace replacement.
If the heat x fails they give the customer a new furnace. We charge 1,150.00 to replace it. We typically get 700 for a res heat x replacement.
Coolwhip is right MAKE MONEY. The warranty is the manufacturers not yours and you have no control over it. Every problem is an opportunity!!

[tking6]

Baso BGN8911-1C is a new replacement module

I have found two; 1. John control - IGM77614C, 2, Baso - BGN891-1C, any comments on these two replacement parts? They do not look like the Lennox's original part, how it compare with the Lennox part and how much work involved in changing the part? Thanks.

[Blackmer]

The Bgn891 looks like it should plug in the same as the oem part. The only thing I couldn't tell from the pic I saw was if the spark plug wire was the same.

[pacnw]

Baso is a direct replacement, used a couple without issue.
Do not know the other.

[vibration]

Lennox will have new replacement for control board. They already have the part number, but no price for that.

[tking6]

This falls into the DIY category and is not permitted.Need help who has experience with replacing the 60J00 with this replacement part. I was instructed the installation procedures as follow:

Lennox model: G2104\5-100-1furnace serial number: 5892m05061
replace with BGN891-1C
(from B0J00 Lennox control board)
- the 6-wire group and ground wire are no question - they are straight forward.

There are 3 additional wires on the old Lennox board -
- 1 shapes like a round socket : needs to cut off the round plug and use for the BGN891's SPARK connection (use the provided connector),
- 1 red wire from the Lennox : use provided connector on the BGN891's SENSE port?
- one white wire on the Lennox (?? not needed for the BGN891-1C)

Any expert or party that had worked on this project, can you confirm this procedure? Greatly appreciated for you help.