Purchase new R-22 Condenser

[ms64]

I heard you can buy a brand new condenser shipped with nitrogen and use it on your old R-22 system. Is this true?

[blownfuse99]

If you can still find them.... Ask for a dry r22 unit.....

[ms64]

I was told there is a company that sells new condenser (Dry)
I need a 3 ton.

[BaldLoonie]

All of them sell "dry" units. As for the wisdom of putting a "13 SEER" outdoor unit on an old evap, that's another story. You lose capacity and efficiency. But if you don't care...

[rojacman]

All of them sell "dry" units. As for the wisdom of putting a "13 SEER" outdoor unit on an old evap, that's another story. You lose capacity and efficiency. But if you don't care........(chicago area) you can get them at one of the areas largest carrier/bryant distributors and they're offering a matching evap for practically free.....Jack:cheers:

[rChris]

Heck we can get C/Us w R22, guess it's 'reclaimed' refnt.

[newoldtech]

Heck we can get C/Us w R22, guess it's 'reclaimed' refnt.

Thats a new one. Who is selling those?

Dry R22 units everyone is selling but charged ones?

[Greend88]

According to the EPA law they could technically ship them out with Recycled R-22.

[joseph122578]

I get Nitrogen filled units from Goodman and Trane. I go through a lot of them too. I'm sure it won't last much longer though.

GSC130?? AC's from Goodman.
GSH130?? Heat Pumps from Goodman.

2TTB30?? AC's from Trane
Not sure if they have Heat Pumps.

[man from trane]

United Refrigeration has Thermal Zone (Rheem) dry shipped units. I've bought a few. Problem is they cost the same as when they came with R-22. Kind of a rip-off.

[DirkRoper]

I'm not convinced we do our customers any favors when we sell them dry R22 units. Every time I've come across a place where I could use one, I have a pro/con discussion with the customer, and so far they've chosen new R-410A every time. One year warranties and the potential of short refrigerant supplies, or replacement refrigerants that are almost as good, are usually enough.

[blazey10]

When I buy Goodman c/u's, they come with discounted jug of r-22. I have lot's of 22 on hand now.

[man from trane]

I'm not convinced we do our customers any favors when we sell them dry R22 units. Every time I've come across a place where I could use one, I have a pro/con discussion with the customer, and so far they've chosen new R-410A every time. One year warranties and the potential of short refrigerant supplies, or replacement refrigerants that are almost as good, are usually enough.

So you sell them a new air handler as well. That's a hard sell here in the Caribbean where a condensing unit typically lasts about 7-8 years but an air handler is usually fine at that age.

[bbelair78]

I'm not convinced we do our customers any favors when we sell them dry R22 units. Every time I've come across a place where I could use one, I have a pro/con discussion with the customer, and so far they've chosen new R-410A every time. One year warranties and the potential of short refrigerant supplies, or replacement refrigerants that are almost as good, are usually enough.
I agree with you 100%. Unfortunately like Man From Trane said an Air Handler with a R-22 coil may go a bit longer and a condenser may be all some can afford. Is it fair to the customer? Most of ours go with the updated equipment but ultimately they make the choice and have to deal with any troubles! Here is a nice article on this subject: http://www.achrnews.com/articles/117378-carrier-asks-epa-to-stop-dry-r22-units

[man from trane]

I agree with you 100%. Unfortunately like Man From Trane said an Air Handler with a R-22 coil may go a bit longer and a condenser may be all some can afford. Is it fair to the customer? Most of ours go with the updated equipment but ultimately they make the choice and have to deal with any troubles! Here is a nice article on this subject: http://www.achrnews.com/articles/117378-carrier-asks-epa-to-stop-dry-r22-units

I saw that article. Carrier is obviously jealous, but put a nice spin on things to try and help their bottom line.

I always try to convince the customer to do what's best in their situation, but in the end I'll sell them whatever they want as long as it's not going to bring me back out on a warranty call.

[bbelair78]

Ha ha!! Spin is not the word!! That magazine seems to be very Carrier friendly!! I just try to pick out the main points and maneuver around the rest of it. :>)

[CoolWine]

Give me a break, Carrier feels strongly that R-22 units should not be available but manufactures them. If dry shipped 22 units aren't available contractors will be forced to do compressor replacements and coil repairs for the same people that won't pony up for a new system (that may well be unnecessary).

"Eighty percent of the cost and technology [of a system] is really in the condensing unit,” said Mandyck.

BS....I'd love to see that math.

Carrier is crystal clear in the article if you ask me, they just want to increase their sales by screwing consumers.

[man from trane]

I've never heard it discussed, but on a small island with limited storage space it comes to mind- what about all of the perfectly good air handlers that we throw away because they aren't compatible with R-410A? That's a lot of scrap metal in the landfill. (they don't recycle here.)

It bothers me that I can't replace an individual minisplit section any longer. I used to be able to buy a ductless air handler or condensing unit but now they all have communicating circuitry and they must be sold in matched pairs. They could easily make them universal but because they want you to buy the whole system they don't. So we throw away good air handlers or condensing units because we can't find a match. Wasteful.

[#1 Maytag Man]

A local distributor starter selling the dry condensers and asked me if i wanted a price sheet on them. I respectfully declined and began to educate them on what happens to a 13 seer cond installed on a 10 seer evap coil. They stopped me half way though to show me she had the nordyne studied i was referring to. So they knew the major downfalls of doing it, but yet were still pushing the sale, Pretty sad. If its an existing 13 seer system okay, but if not, your crazy to do it. Ill try to find the report to share. But if i was faced w/ a customer that couldn't afford to do a full change out on an old 10 seer system, then i would fix the old unit, if it meant rebuilding the old system from the ground up!
On a s/c you wind up w/ dropped capacity and efficiency due to having to overcharge the system to get any performance out of it. On a h/p, same as above, PLUS in heating mode, High pressure relief valve opens due to the excessive system charge. I hope Carrier is successful in getting this crap out of the hands of bubba and skeeter so i dont have to go back and tell the customer they have to pay to properly fix the system.

[man from trane]

^ Not sure what you're referring to. I put 13 SEER condensing units on 10 SEER evaps all the time. Sometimes there's no choice. A lot of this ductless air handling stuff only comes in 10 SEER. I charge to correct superheat, evap temp usually ends up around 42-45, customer is happy, current draw lower than before, and cools just as well. Haven't had a call back yet, so what's the issue? I don't do heat pumps so that's not an issue.

[#1 Maytag Man]

Here you go, forgot I had it on my website! ;-)

http://airmaxllp.com/images/Efficiency_Implications_of_13_SEER_Condenser-Only_Change_Outs.pdf

[man from trane]

I guess I won't be doing any condenser only change outs on heat pumps. But I've never had that happen on a cooling only system. Usually I don't even need to adjust the charge. Of course I have no way to verify how many BTU's the system produces, but the owners say it cools better and the bill goes down. But I will definitely try to pursuade them into a new system.

Recently a building with (4) 10 SEER systems had all of the condensing units stolen. A contractor came out and replaced all of the units with Goodman 13 SEER units but did not even try to sell them new coils. I thought the building felt really humid when I was there but I was just visiting, not working so I didn't get involved.

[bbelair78]

Here you go, forgot I had it on my website! ;-)

http://airmaxllp.com/images/Efficiency_Implications_of_13_SEER_Condenser-Only_Change_Outs.pdf
Thanks for the link!! Good thing you "laid off" Bubba and Skeeter before your wall of shame got to big ;>)

[#1 Maytag Man]

Thanks for the link!! Good thing you "laid off" Bubba and Skeeter before your wall of shame got to big ;>)
lol, we just added the "bubba & skeeter" & "Happy Customer" link a week or two ago, i was starting to get all the pics of my phone to put up there, and figured id put some up here too ;-)

[Miller257]

Here you go, forgot I had it on my website! ;-)

http://airmaxllp.com/images/Efficiency_Implications_of_13_SEER_Condenser-Only_Change_Outs.pdf

That is a very poorly put together "simulated" test.

Where do I start, they didn't list model serial numbers, so I took some Trane r-22 13 seer matched system data. The Trane system is rated at 35,800 btus, but at OD of 95°, ID of 80°, and Wet bulb of 71° the system rating drops down to 20,900 BTU.

The tester did not take into consideration the effects of the high OD and ID temp and neglected to measure wet-bulb. They simply took the nameplate data, which is inaccurate. They also didn't measure airflow, if the system is not putting out the rated cfm the output will drop.

Come back with some correctly prepared tests and I'll stop doing change outs.

[LosAngelesVV]

here in L.A. i don't think there's been many changes at all