* What area of learning is crucial in HVAC? *

[seanhoang]

Man I thought I knew a few thing or two about HVAC, but ever since I got on to hvac-talk.com I know crap!!! Okay so here's the questions for ALL experts and pros:

What three areas MUST I need to get good at in order to be successful in HVAC???

There's so many things to learn, but I don't know where to start.

Thanks for all advice.

[Southern Mech]

1- design and airflow, lots of trouble and hard to t- shoot if you don't know how it's designed first.
2- electrical, it makes em run

[MM#7]

1)buy a ducTCulator just to get an idea obout cfm's per ton
2) learn what sub cool and super heat mean and how to check them
3)learn how to use a multi meter w/o killing your self
4) learn how to braze/solder and check for leaks with nitrogen,vacuum pump,micron gauge
5)learn what drywet,bulb air temp means and how to check.
6) how to ck. temp across coil
7)how to use gauges on 410A/R-22
8)HOW TO USE A AMPROBE AND WHAT THE AMP READING MEANS
9)HOW TO TROUBLE SHOOT ELECTRIC components
10)how to determine if a coil is dirty and how to clean
11)how to reclaim freon
12)learn how to chnge out a a/h and condenser
13) learn anything not listed above!

[NY2GA01]

1)buy a ducTCulator just to get an idea obout cfm's per ton
2) learn what sub cool and super heat mean and how to check them
3)learn how to use a multi meter w/o killing your self
4) learn how to braze/solder and check for leaks with nitrogen,vacuum pump,micron gauge
5)learn what dry wet,bulb air temp means and how to check.
6) how to ck. temp across coil
7)how to use gauges on 410A/R-22
8)HOW TO USE A AMPROBE AND WHAT THE AMP READING MEANS
9)HOW TO TROUBLE SHOOT ELECTRIC components
10)how to determine if a coil is dirty and how to clean
11)how to reclaim freon
12)learn how to change out a a/h and condenser
13) learn anything not listed above!

I agree, good post.

[jpsmith1cm]

All of it.

Don't stop when you think you know something.

Learn the very basics. Master them. Then build upon those basics that you learned.

Revisit the basics frequently because your understanding is ever expanding and revisiting what you think that you already know can lead to deeper understanding.

Learning isnt a goal but a process.

[stonewallred]

1) observational skills, know how to see and remember.
Not just equipment either.

[Twilly]

Twilly says apply for pro status and read the posts a wealth of information and a lot of very smart tech's in there.

[btuhack]

What three areas MUST I need to get good at in order to be successful in HVAC???

Houston, we have a problem.

All areas need to be well understood, at least on a fundamental level, otherwise the ones that are weak will define you as mediocre. Beyond basic electricity and the refer cycle, Knowing HOW things work and proper installation is step one, knowing WHY is step two~ did a part fail because it was faulty or did some underlying problem cause the failure? What's the saying? Fix the problem, don't treat the symptoms?

Being able to whittle down a problem is the application of the basic knowledge with logic and reasoning, so that's where you start to define your real ability/worth. Resourcefulness matters maybe the most, I'd rather have a great ablity to find the right answer than try to remember everything. It's easier these days with the web and technology.

I got good marks in trade school but knew I was going to be worth very little to my first employer. Two trips to the ER in my first year:( .

So, after all that BS, the three areas: Take care of your back, make some money, and have some fun.

[MM#7]

Houston, we have a problem.

All areas need to be well understood, at least on a fundamental level, otherwise the ones that are weak will define you as mediocre. Beyond basic electricity and the refer cycle, Knowing HOW things work and proper installation is step one, knowing WHY is step two~ did a part fail because it was faulty or did some underlying problem cause the failure? What's the saying? Fix the problem, don't treat the symptoms?

Being able to whittle down a problem is the application of the basic knowledge with logic and reasoning, so that's where you start to define your real ability/worth. Resourcefulness matters maybe the most, I'd rather have a great ablity to find the right answer than try to remember everything. It's easier these days with the web and technology.

I got good marks in trade school but knew I was going to be worth very little to my first employer. Two trips to the ER in my first year:( .

So, after all that BS, the three areas: Take care of your back, make some money, and have some fun.

and wear knee pads in a attic,think safety, have some one help with heavy equipment, and if you do residential, hopefully your boss uses 2 piece air handlers.

[Shophound]

Man I thought I knew a few thing or two about HVAC, but ever since I got on to hvac-talk.com I know crap!!! Okay so here's the questions for ALL experts and pros:

What three areas MUST I need to get good at in order to be successful in HVAC???

There's so many things to learn, but I don't know where to start.

Thanks for all advice.

Boil it down to three items? Here you go:



Be good to and with people. Always.
KNOW your refrigeration, electrical, and airflow theory. Don't blow it off or take it lightly. Don't take anyone seriously who poo-poos the importance of it. And when you DO get it down pat, remember Item #1 and teach it to others.
You never arrive. The HVAC adventure is life-long. And it's a lot sweeter if you remember Item #1.

[lynn comstock]

Boil it down to three items? Here you go:



Be good to and with people. Always.
KNOW your refrigeration, electrical, and airflow theory. Don't blow it off or take it lightly. Don't take anyone seriously who poo-poos the importance of it. And when you DO get it down pat, remember Item #1 and teach it to others.
You never arrive. The HVAC adventure is life-long. And it's a lot sweeter if you remember Item #1.
SH, Well said. Remember that we are all born ignorant. Pride is a bigger obstacle to learning than stupidity. Too many people in life stop learning. Enjoy the adventure.

[seanhoang]

Great advices, thank you.

Here's my plan from now to the new cooling season is to attack a particular areas of learning to improve my skills.

Step 1: Pychrometric chart/humidity... Step 2: Airflow/cfm... and so on...

(Reason for these two areas first is because I noticed that most problems on the threads can be solve my understand these two area)

What do you guys think???

[motoguy128]

Based on my expereince with a bad & poorly trained HVAC contractor:

1)Correct unit sizing & load calculations
2) Duct sizing & design
3) Proper Installation methods including building code requirements.

[MM#7]

Man I thought I knew a few thing or two about HVAC, but ever since I got on to hvac-talk.com I know crap!!! Okay so here's the questions for ALL experts and pros:

What three areas MUST I need to get good at in order to be successful in HVAC???

There's so many things to learn, but I don't know where to start.

Thanks for all advice.

the $ is in service , repair, and replacements, concentrate on those areas. the reason there are so many problems with duct systems is most people don't want to spend the money to do it right! but again the money is in service/repair/replacements. in the residential market, no money in installing duct. plus you'll have a much longer shelve life with service!, plus keep on top of the new products being introduced. :.02:

[garya505]

As has been said already, you need to know all the technical stuff.

From a homeowner's perspective:
1. Whatever you do, whatever you specialize in, do it right.
2. If you have to charge more to do quality work, then charge more.
3. Let some other contractors take the "low bid" customers.
4. Don't BS your customers.

[trouble time]

This trade is constantly evolving constantly growing. The first thing you should do is learn how to learn. You will be learning throughout your lifetime. Enjoy it even if it is frustrating at times. good luck

[Twilly]

Twilly says have a sense of humor and don't take yourself so seriously, have fun and enjoy your family, life is short.

[MM#7]

Twilly says have a sense of humor and don't take yourself so seriously, have fun and enjoy your family, life is short.

and if you do a lot of attic work, get a cooling vest from re michael!:.02:

[Twilly]

Twilly is so glad Twilly got basements.

[Agent_C]

Gentleman, I see some recurring themes in your grammar;

‘Yourself’ is one word and so is ‘Anyone’ .

You know who you are… :-\

Sincerely,
Miss Crabtree

[Wolfer]

Besides what everyone else has said on here, I would say learning how to read a schematic is very important too.

[btuhack]

Gentleman, I see some recurring themes in your grammar;

‘Yourself’ is one word and so is ‘Anyone’ .

You know who you are… :-\

Sincerely,
Miss Crabtree
wellsaidmisscradtreeioftenfindmyselfdistractedfrom thesubjectmatterduetothegrammaticalerrorspostedher ebythosewhoplacelittletononovalueintheproperuseoft heenglishlanguagepunctuationorspellingitsabouttime someonestoodupfortheimportantlittlethingsthatmakea civilizedworldtick

I couldn't help my self

[MM#7]

wellsaidmisscradtreeioftenfindmyselfdistractedfrom thesubjectmatterduetothegrammaticalerrorspostedher ebythosewhoplacelittletononovalueintheproperuseoft heenglishlanguagepunctuationorspellingitsabouttime someonestoodupfortheimportantlittlethingsthatmakea civilizedworldtick

I couldn't help my self

GOOD POST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:.02:

[Agent_C]

Well said Miss Crabtree. I often find myself distracted from the subject matter due to the grammatical errors posted here by those who place little to no value in the proper use of the English language, punctuation or spelling. It's about time someone stood up for the important little things that make a civilized world tick
I couldn't help myself

B-

http://www.dspears.com/fio/f36a.jpg

[genduct]

B-

http://www.dspears.com/fio/f36a.jpg

"by those who place little to in this case the correct spelling is too no value in the proper use of the English language,"

Also, didn't I make it clear this was to be ONE PAGE double spaced? deduct another 10 pts

[genduct]

Man I thought I knew a few thing or two about HVAC, but ever since I got on to hvac-talk.com I know crap!!! Okay so here's the questions for ALL experts and pros:

What three areas MUST I need to get good at in order to be successful in HVAC???

There's so many things to learn, but I don't know where to start.

Thanks for all advice.

When you reach the point where you know what you don't know, THEN you need to find out where to find the answer OR who to call.

At that point you have arrived at the beginning of a lifetime of learning

Good Luck

[Twilly]

Twilly says i before e except after c.

[jpsmith1cm]

Twilly says i before e except after c.

Weird......

[MM#7]

When you reach the point where you know what you don't know, THEN you need to find out where to find the answer OR who to call.

At that point you have arrived at the beginning of a lifetime of learning

Good Luck

there are a lot of people who don't know, what they DON'T KNOW!

[firecontrol]

Most important thing to learn in this industry is: If you get to the end of the day and you haven't learned something new.......... your day isn't done.

[hvacrmedic]

Weird......

Took me a minute....

I'm not very prescient sometimes.

:cheers:

[seanhoang]

Okay I think I can close this thread now. It's getting weird in here!

Thanks so much for full of life lessons. I'll be back for more!

[energy_rater_La]

getting wierd??...you ain't seen nothing.
hang around a while.

[nickellhead]

Electric!!

[lynn comstock]

Electric!! Getting Wired?

[XcelTech]

Everyone here is wrong on the most important thing. :)

The first most important thing to learn is:

1.) How to research properly, self-training, retraining for retention, and figuring out what is bullsh!* and what isn't. (AKA: a website telling you that super heat should always be 13° delta sounds good but is very wrong.)

Then I would say:

2.) Electricity.
3.) Air balancing.

I find there is more problems with electricity and air flow then refrigeration.

[NCHeat]

Twilly says i before e except after c.

What about neighbor and weigh? LOL

1. Electricity (relays and how low voltage control works)
2. Refrigeration cycle
3. Order of operation in heating cycle

[freonr22]

Agreed about all the above... Air balancing is neglected often as is learning to use a magnehelic...

[XcelTech]

ohh yeah I got three magnehelics I use religiously on PM's.

[beenthere]

Electricity.
Air flow.
Vapor compression cycle.
Combustion.
Heat loss and gain.
Principles of hydronics.

[timebuilder]

Physics.

[AC Bad Dog]

Man I thought I knew a few thing or two about HVAC, but ever since I got on to hvac-talk.com I know crap!!! Okay so here's the questions for ALL experts and pros:

What three areas MUST I need to get good at in order to be successful in HVAC???

There's so many things to learn, but I don't know where to start.

Thanks for all advice.


Mr. Seanhoang,

You post has elicited a lot of great replies focusing on developing technical capabilities and a learning mindset. I am not allowed to touch the power tools and I come to our business from a different perspective but I would like answer your question as well.

The residential HVAC business is down about 50% from 2005 and there is considerable downward pressure on prices. Big Box retailers, Sears, Utility owned contractors, Manufacturer owned contractors, large consolidated contractors, Internet Sales, and many other sophisticated marketers are stealing the best customers from small companies. Due to the fact that the vast majority of small HVAC companies come up from the technical side of the business, they are ill equipped to compete against these firms and in many cases don’t even know the Customers they are loosing.

Three Areas:

1. Marketing Systems - Small contractors are totally out matched on the Web. Referrals are great but the web is where your best customers are looking for information and looking for you.
Companies that do not have an effective web presence get what is left after those that do get the good customers.
Know what makes an effective Website. Understand what web metrics are and learn what the numbers mean. The vast majority of small companies have no web site or a bad website. Most who have bad websites have no idea just how bad they are. Many guys are actually hurting their business by creating negative first impressions with their sites. Get started with “Google Analytics”, understand the terms, Visits, Bounce Rates, Conversion Rates, and some of the other basics and you will be miles ahead of most. The Web is all about numbers and you can win here with a some effort.

2. Sales Systems- Learn how to make your sales process “pulse” in Real Time. You have 10 minutes to contact a customer back once they have initiated contact with you. Learn how to interview the customer on the phone. Try to find out as much as you can about them before you just jump in your truck and waste your time. Learning how not to waste your time with losers is a primary skill. You need to spend your time with customers who value what you bring to the table. Develop a “Retail Mindset”

The best salesman in our business are all about Confidence. They look their customer in the Eye, and tell them the truth. No BS, no tricks, no Dog and pony Show. They know the customer does not want(or have time) to watch them do their job. High End Customers do not have any time. High End customers are not impressed with your computer. High End customers expect you will do what is needed, regardless of what that is.

The Customer will decide in about 2 seconds weather you know your stuff on not. Learn never to take your eye off the customer’s and always give straight answers. Your High End customers expect that you will do what is required to make them happy. Show your customer you are Confident in your ability to make them comfortable. You can win in this area!

3. Business Systems- Due to the nature of HVAC many small guys come up through the technical side of the business and are challenged by the business stuff. At this point, many of your sophisticated competitors they are Businessmen fist HVAC guys second. Some guys never want to grow, for the ones that do, it is almost always the business skills that trip them up. Local colleges, Manufacturers, and your Suppliers are all great resources for your ongoing business education. Your HVAC partners have an interest in your success! They want to help you.


I hope you find this perspective useful. The key to learning is to develop a “Beginner’s Mind” and always leave some room in your glass for new information. I have taught HVAC classes for a long while and I always get the guy in the front row that could teach the class I’m teaching. I’ll ask him “Why are you Here?” I always get the same answer, “You can always learn Something!”

The HVAC business has been good to me, I hope it is good for you.

Best of Luck,

AC BAD DOG

[tedkidd]

1. Internet marketing - don't forget search optimization, you want to be on the top of the first search page.

2. Web site - I plan on an intake form they can complete before the phone call.

3. Business management - Scalable CRM with automatic follow up steps. No paper files, no post it notes.

[Pion]

My advice is very simple and all consuming--- remember the Golden Rule! This will guarantee that you will always be as properly prepared as possible when you undertake your different jobs. If you treat everyone as you want to be treated, then all will be well.

[HBX Controls]

Mr. Seanhoang,

You post has elicited a lot of great replies focusing on developing technical capabilities and a learning mindset. I am not allowed to touch the power tools and I come to our business from a different perspective but I would like answer your question as well.

The residential HVAC business is down about 50% from 2005 and there is considerable downward pressure on prices. Big Box retailers, Sears, Utility owned contractors, Manufacturer owned contractors, large consolidated contractors, Internet Sales, and many other sophisticated marketers are stealing the best customers from small companies. Due to the fact that the vast majority of small HVAC companies come up from the technical side of the business, they are ill equipped to compete against these firms and in many cases don’t even know the Customers they are loosing.

Three Areas:

1. Marketing Systems - Small contractors are totally out matched on the Web. Referrals are great but the web is where your best customers are looking for information and looking for you.
Companies that do not have an effective web presence get what is left after those that do get the good customers.
Know what makes an effective Website. Understand what web metrics are and learn what the numbers mean. The vast majority of small companies have no web site or a bad website. Most who have bad websites have no idea just how bad they are. Many guys are actually hurting their business by creating negative first impressions with their sites. Get started with “Google Analytics”, understand the terms, Visits, Bounce Rates, Conversion Rates, and some of the other basics and you will be miles ahead of most. The Web is all about numbers and you can win here with a some effort.

2. Sales Systems- Learn how to make your sales process “pulse” in Real Time. You have 10 minutes to contact a customer back once they have initiated contact with you. Learn how to interview the customer on the phone. Try to find out as much as you can about them before you just jump in your truck and waste your time. Learning how not to waste your time with losers is a primary skill. You need to spend your time with customers who value what you bring to the table. Develop a “Retail Mindset”

The best salesman in our business are all about Confidence. They look their customer in the Eye, and tell them the truth. No BS, no tricks, no Dog and pony Show. They know the customer does not want(or have time) to watch them do their job. High End Customers do not have any time. High End customers are not impressed with your computer. High End customers expect you will do what is needed, regardless of what that is.

The Customer will decide in about 2 seconds weather you know your stuff on not. Learn never to take your eye off the customer’s and always give straight answers. Your High End customers expect that you will do what is required to make them happy. Show your customer you are Confident in your ability to make them comfortable. You can win in this area!

3. Business Systems- Due to the nature of HVAC many small guys come up through the technical side of the business and are challenged by the business stuff. At this point, many of your sophisticated competitors they are Businessmen fist HVAC guys second. Some guys never want to grow, for the ones that do, it is almost always the business skills that trip them up. Local colleges, Manufacturers, and your Suppliers are all great resources for your ongoing business education. Your HVAC partners have an interest in your success! They want to help you.


I hope you find this perspective useful. The key to learning is to develop a “Beginner’s Mind” and always leave some room in your glass for new information. I have taught HVAC classes for a long while and I always get the guy in the front row that could teach the class I’m teaching. I’ll ask him “Why are you Here?” I always get the same answer, “You can always learn Something!”

The HVAC business has been good to me, I hope it is good for you.

Best of Luck,

AC BAD DOG

Well said and very true.

[genduct]

http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=160248

How about some basic building knowledge (structure and science ) get added to the list

[HVACTechNC]

If there was a part of HVAC that wasn't critical, it would not be a part of HVAC... So far as I know there are no parts or principles that serve no essential function on an HVAC system.

[gevans]

#1: You will never be able to stuff everything you need to know between your two ears. In other words, don't be afraid to ask for help from outside resources. This site, technical publications, OEM manuals, the techs at your local parts counter, etc.
#2: There are always enough jobs out there to keep a good man busy. Don't waste any time holding up the competition. I don't have any competition, I only have friends in the same industry that work for others.
#3: Treat all people with respect. Listen to your customers... they might not know anything about HVAC, but they know when their system is doing something different. Ask for a description.

[tedkidd]

GEVANS, awesome post.

#1 is so true for me. I'd add; surround yourself with really smart people, then you can get by being average smart. And you can worry less about brain explosion.

[mizzouhvac]

1. Airflow and waterflow. Often overlooked and misunderstood.
2. It all begins with week one day one basics. Superheat, subcooling and the basics of electricity.
3. Always have a good friend in the industry on speed dial. Cause you will need him and he will need you.

[lynn comstock]

I voted 5 stars for this thread.

[timebuilder]

Along with the various subjects already mentioned, the key element is to approach each day with a hunger to learn something. Develop relationships to help you do that. We are detectives, and we sometimes need another opinion about the meaning of the clues we find. The great thing about this site and others like it is that you get to stand by and look over the shoulders of a wide variety of other people, and take in all of the situations and symptoms that others can every day. This will accelerate your growth. Good luck.

[seanhoang]

I have no problem with the business, customer service, or the communication sides. My problem right now is technical. I am dedicating myself to learning thoroughly an area of HVAC each month until this next cooling season comes around.

August: Superheat & Subcooling.

September: What do you guys think???

[lynn comstock]

September: Airflow, fans and static pressures and airside tools. Step one to determine proper operation of any HVAC system is to confirm proper airflow.

[myngos211]

What a great thread for fng's such as myself.

[meoberry]

I agree, good post.

He left out one thing. Learning to step back and scratch your head. And say to yourself: It aint supposed to do that. Without the customer seeing you.:whistle:

[meoberry]

#1: You will never be able to stuff everything you need to know between your two ears. In other words, don't be afraid to ask for help from outside resources. This site, technical publications, OEM manuals, the techs at your local parts counter, etc.
#2: There are always enough jobs out there to keep a good man busy. Don't waste any time holding up the competition. I don't have any competition, I only have friends in the same industry that work for others.
#3: Treat all people with respect. Listen to your customers... they might not know anything about HVAC, but they know when their system is doing something different. Ask for a description.

Answer number three is the most important. The customer knows their system. If you listen they will tell you exactly whats wrong. Like it only does it when it rains(Probably a short in t-stat wire). Or cools fine until about a little after noon then the outside quits running.(condensor fan motor overheating). Just some of the examples of listening to customers.:.02:

[meoberry]

1. Airflow and waterflow. Often overlooked and misunderstood.
2. It all begins with week one day one basics. Superheat, subcooling and the basics of electricity.
3. Always have a good friend in the industry on speed dial. Cause you will need him and he will need you.

Ahmen brother. It's a good idea to have factory rep. on speed dial also.:.02:

[meoberry]

September: Airflow, fans and static pressures and airside tools. Step one to determine proper operation of any HVAC system is to confirm proper airflow.

This very true. But it is also a good idea to know the symptoms of poor airflow also. Like freezing up, low super heat and a low suction. Makes diagnosis quicker.:.02: