Decision Time -- HELP!

[help in georgia]

After visits and quotes from 5 different firms, below are my final choices for my old 1920's home with 3200 sq feet in southern Georgia. My current air conditioner is an 11 year old Goodman 5-ton system that has done just fine cooling my home. Each HVAC tech has confirmed that I need a 5 ton system. My heat has been an old 40 year old dinasour of a gas furnace (this is why I am getting a new unit). I have got references on the three different HVAC firms and feel good about all three.

Here are the choices from least expensive to most. Each unit jumps the price up about $1000. All units have a matching variable speed indoor air handler. Each unit either comes with a 10 year parts & labor warranty or I have factored the extra cost in.

Goodman, R22, 13 SEER, 11.6 EER, 8.5 HSPF
Amana Ultron, R410a, 15 SEER, 12 EER, 8 HSPF
Trane XL16i, R410a, 14.5 SEER, NOT SURE of EER, 9.2 HSPF

Again, there is about a $1,000 jump from the first to the second and another $1000 jump from the second to the third. I really have not noticed any comfort problems with my old 10 SEER Goodman AC unit that is matched to the dinasour air handler with the old furnace. However, perhaps I would love the comfort a two-stage systems affords -- I just have no way of knowing since I have never had one. Of course, I like the Trane 16i the best -- nobody seems to bad talk that unit. The Amana Ultron seems to be the best deal for the price but I have to be honest the Goodman trashing does concern me. I still am not sure if this Amana Ultron is better built than a Goodman. Goodman does not offer anything nearly as high a seer and no R410a units. But, I know Goodman bought out Amana -- would like to think the top of the line Amana is still a more quality product than the Goodmans but I do not know.

If all these units are really going to be about the same energy efficient, the thought comes to my mind that I should really just save money and get the Goodman 13 SEER. As you notice the SEER and EER do not really go up much with the pricier units.

I do plan to live in the house forever but I have many others things that I could put the extra money towards. THE THING THAT I JUST CANNOT GET A HANDLE ON IS IF THE TWO STAGE OUTDOOR COMPRESSOR IS REALLY WORTH IT.

Please help. I make my decision by the end of the day monday -- good or bad.

J. D.

[klyons20]

Since you are in a hot area all the time get a high as possible seer rating unit. Check on the how long the company been around this will determine if they will be around for the warrity. Insist on 5 year labor warrity.

regards,
Kelvin

[Mr Bill]

They all are good choices number one factor is the quality of the installation.
Take Care
Mr. Bill

[duc dowg]

I like the trane 16i.jmho

[help in georgia]

Just to add in one more choice:

The top of the line Trane XL19i is only $300 more than the XL16i. However, it has two outside compressors instead of one two stage one like the XL16i and Amana Ultron (I worry that that just doubles my potential problems after the 10 year warranty runs out). Also, it only comes in R22. With a top of the line unit like Trane XL16i or Trane XL19i I hope to have the unit past the year 2020 when R22 might be an issue. I originally eliminated the XL19i because of this. However, the Trane dealer seemed to think it would be silly (although he did not say it that way -- he said it very nice) to buy the XL16i instead of paying $300 more and getting the XL19i.

Here are the numbers on the Trane XL19i as opposed to the Trane XL16i

XL19i, 15.9 SEER, HSPF 8.0
XL16i, 14.6 SEER, HSPF 9.2

Remember, the AMANA Ultron is 15 SEER, HSPF 8.0, EER or 12.

Not sure of the EER on the XL16i and XL19i. Is that the number I should actually be comparing anyway.

Advice still appreciated. Remember the Amana is $1000 less than the Trane XL16i. A Goodman 13 Seer, 11.6 EER, 8.5 HSPF is $2000 less than the Trane XL16i.

Is about 2 SEER higher and Two-stage outdoor compressor worth $2000. For $300 more should I consider the XL19i??

I do live in a very hot, humid place -- Am I the ideal condidate for one of these high SEER units with two stage compressors.

Please keep helping.

J. D.

[dan sw fl]

Originally posted by help in georgia

However, the Trane dealer seemed to think it would be silly (although he did not say it that way -- he said it very nice) to buy the XL16i instead of paying $300 more and getting the XL19i.

Here are the numbers on the Trane XL19i as opposed to the Trane XL16i

XL19i, 15.9 SEER, HSPF 8.0
XL16i, 14.6 SEER, HSPF 9.2

Is about 2 SEER higher and Two-stage outdoor compressor worth $2000. For $300 more should I consider the XL19i??

I do live in a very hot, humid place -- Am I the ideal condidate for one of these high SEER units with two stage compressors.

A week late and $1,000 rebate short.
Doesn't GA offer the Fall and Spring TRANE rebates?

[Freezeking2000]

Get the 19!

[kevinmac]

The XL19i coupled to a variable speed TWE065E13T airhandler will get you SEER of 17, providing all the dusct work is adequate.

[heat411]

Your climate dictates hi efficient air , go with the highest payback long term!First choose the co. , then the equipment!

[help in georgia]

I can still get the rebate from TRANE as long as I get it installed by Nov. 15th. So I have not missed that deadline yet.

For $2000 less than the Trane XL16i or XL19i I can get a Goodman 13 SEER with variable speed airhandler. It comes with a 10 year parts and labor (yes I confirmed this with dealer) warranty. I have done some math on past years heating & cooling bills and even factoring in increases in electricity rates and am almost certain that the higher SEER tranes (XL16i or XL19i) would not pay for themselves as compared to the Goodman ever or it would take 20 years.

I trust the firm that would install the Goodman actually more than the Trane. They have been in business 40 plus years and are Lennox certified. They have installed Lennox for many, many years, but the owner that I have known for years told me that for the money you just cannot beat the Goodman deal. He says that he puts in about 70% Goodmans and 30% Lennox. He also said that if he put the unit in now, he would for free come at peak of summer and do a check on system and to see if running at peak effeciency. He also said he would do the same thing over a year from now at peak winter season.

Since I am not dissatisfied at all with the 10 SEER Goodman AC unit that I currently have (it has no variable speed air handler) I think the comfort of the Goodman 13 SEER with Variable speed air handler will be just fine. I see no need to pay the extra $2000 plus for the Trane XL16i or XL19i.

Anyway, that is my decision as of now. Unless someone can warn me or give me better advice, I pull the trigger on this tomorrow morning.

Thanks so much for your replies.

J. D.

[help in georgia]

Because I would get a 5 ton system I was told that I would not get near as high a seer rating on the XL19i. I was told 15.9 and I went to the SEER rating web site and checked and I got 15.9 also when matched with the variable speed air handler. I don't think I would get the 17 SEER that you mentioned.

If I am wrong please let me know.

J. D.

[go_redskins]

As a homeowner with the Goodman heat pump (CPLT48) and variable speed air handler (AEPT60), I think you're making the right choice. My neighbor paid a lot more for his Trane model (though not an XL19i), but I'm far happier with my setup and performance than he is with his.

[Mr Bill]

Originally posted by go_redskins
As a homeowner with the Goodman heat pump (CPLT48) and variable speed air handler (AEPT60), I think you're making the right choice. My neighbor paid a lot more for his Trane model (though not an XL19i), but I'm far happier with my setup and performance than he is with his.

And I thought it was the name all along that made the a/c better learn something new everyday thanks for you post and I am sure there are many more satified folks just like you.

[help in georgia]

Thanks Go Redskins -- does this name mean you are in Wash, DC -- Washington Redskins? If not, whats your climate like?

Does your Heat pump run all the time in the Winter? Or do you have a duel fuel backup or anything? People have warned me that with an older home and high ceiling my heat pump with only the electric strip backup will run all the time. However, I live almost in Florida and find it hard to think that a good heat pump can't handle our winters.

Anyway, thanks for the vote of confidence for my heat pump choice.

J. D.

[go_redskins]

I grew up in the Washington D.C. area, but I'm now in Washington state near Seattle. My winters are mild but still colder than yours.

No dual-fuel here - just heat pump with heat strip backup. Actually, my heat strip isn't even connected as auxiliary heat at the thermostat and is only used when the heat pump defrosts.

But even with just the heat pump providing all the heat, it's held 70*°F even on the coldest days. (I keep my thermostat set at 73°F all winter.)

So if you're using the heat strip as auxiliary heat, I can't imagine the heat pump/heat strip not holding your desired temperature.

My one complaint with the heat pump as it was originally setup was that the heat pump defrost ran too often and for too long.

The factory default for the defrost timer was 30 minutes. That made it defrost way too often and before any frost had formed. Somewhere between 60 and 90 minutes worked best for my area.

The defrost running too long was from the placement of the defrost temperature sensor. It's placed on a bend almost at the bottom of the condenser coil. It kept the defrost going for a *LONG* time after the coil was completely defrosted and sometimes for 4-5 minutes even when there was no frost to begin with.

Moving the defrost temperature sensor to a bend half way up the coil fixed that problem. The defrost ends very quickly after all of the frost is melted away. And when there is no frost, it ends in about 1-2 minutes.

Now, I'm just counting how much money I'm saving over the gas furnace I use to have. And with the house at 73°F, who wouldn't be comfortable (well, I guess some people might think it's too warm).

[dan sw fl]

Originally posted by go_redskins
So if you're using the heat strip as auxiliary heat,
I can't imagine the heat pump/heat strip not holding your desired temperature.

I won't need my A/C or Heat
for the next ~6 months
so I just turn t-stat to
OFF.

[kevinmac]

xx

[Edited by kevinmac on 11-08-2005 at 10:09 AM]

[kevinmac]

helpingeorgia -
According to product tech support bulletin The XL19i 5 ton(2TTZ9060A1000A) coupled to the TWE065E13T provides a SEER of 17 & EER of 11.40 @ STD CFM of 1775 utilizing the TXVNB flow control. This configuration also provides total BTUH of 59,000, sensible of 39,700.
If coupled with TUD120R(v5 + TXH063PS you will get a SEER os 16.5, EER 10.75 @ 1975 CFM total of 59,00BTUH sensible 44,500.
If coupled to TDD100R9V5 + TXH063P3 you will get 16.5 SEER, EER of 10.85 @ 1950 CFM, total of 59,500BTUH, sensible 44,700.
If coupled to TDD120R9V5 + TXH063P3 you will get 16.75 SEER, EER 10.90, @ 2025 CFM. total of 59,500 BTUH, sensible 45,300.
ALL the above utilize TXV-NB flow control!

All specs taken from PUB # 22-1746-01-0103(EN)
Take your pick!

[Edited by kevinmac on 11-08-2005 at 10:09 AM]