Sman Problems.

[Pascone10]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwictY2xyBQ&feature=player_embedded#at=86

[itsiceman]

The micron sensor is above the center port and he only pulled a vacuum on the low side of the manifold so out of range reading. You need a vacuum on the low side + the center port for it to read :whistle:

[mgenius33]

Since the sensor is in the center common port, I take it you will need yet another vacuum rated valve to cut off the possible leakage through the vac pump. Also, the likelihood of leakage through the manifold is much higher due to the valves being open backseated, and not closed seated.

Am I missing something on this backwards design???

This is a question and not a derogative comment. As I am trying to learn as much as possible before making a purchase.
It seems the lower end sman2 is a better deal if the need for more expensive vacuum valves is going to be an issue. I guess with the sman3 you get the two type k clamps which makes the micron gauge a throw in feature.

[Pascone10]

The micron sensor is above the center port and he only pulled a vacuum on the low side of the manifold so out of range reading. You need a vacuum on the low side + the center port for it to read :whistle:

I saw this video on another site. It was a Tech using it and he was in contact with FP as per the original poster. THe replacement set the sent him did the same thing.. 3rd time apparently was the charm..

There is another local guy with this set and he is having problems with battery life. I think he is only getting 30 Hrs out of it..

[Pascone10]

Since the sensor is in the center common port, I take it you will need yet another vacuum rated valve to cut off the possible leakage through the vac pump. Also, the likelihood of leakage through the manifold is much higher due to the valves being open backseated, and not closed seated.

Am I missing something on this backwards design???

This is a question and not a derogative comment. As I am trying to learn as much as possible before making a purchase.
It seems the lower end sman2 is a better deal if the need for more expensive vacuum valves is going to be an issue. I guess with the sman3 you get the two type k clamps which makes the micron gauge a throw in feature.

Yes you would need to keep the Low side valve open. Honestly tho you need to look into core removers and a Tree set up.. Pulling through a manifold is really not the best way to go anymore..

[mgenius33]

Kinda ridiculous there are manufacturers producing a gauge that isn't considered ideal for doing a job. Especially if it's a high end product.
Why make a gauge set with a micron gauge built in, if it's basically useless? If it kind of holds a vacuum or might hold a vacuum, it is losing money. Tools that aren't designed with an ideal assurance to do their job are wasting a technicians valuable time! Not to mention the stress of second guessing your tools while you're trying to work. These are supposed to be professional tools, not HomeDepot or Lowes DIYer specials!
Seems to be a waste of time and money for both manf, technician (consumer), and end customer.

[itsiceman]

I saw this video on another site. It was a Tech using it and he was in contact with FP as per the original poster. THe replacement set the sent him did the same thing.. 3rd time apparently was the charm..
That dude should remove those videos or edit the description and use it a teaching moment.
His SMAN3 is obviously not "defective"

[itsiceman]

Kinda ridiculous there are manufacturers producing a gauge that isn't considered ideal for doing a job. Especially if it's a high end product.
Why make a gauge set with a micron gauge built in, if it's basically useless? If it kind of holds a vacuum or might hold a vacuum, it is losing money. Tools that aren't designed with an ideal assurance to do their job are wasting a technicians valuable time! Not to mention the stress of second guessing your tools while you're trying to work. These are supposed to be professional tools, not HomeDepot or Lowes DIYer specials!
Seems to be a waste of time and money for both manf, technician (consumer), and end customer.It probably isn't useless but having one built in is a sales gimmick IMO.
AFAIK testo and Fieldpiece are the only ones doing it ATM. I hope no one else follows. I don't understand why testo would display something like this but it just goes to show you how accurate their unit is because all they are using is their compensated high pressure sensors.
A sensor on a plug or wireless would be a much better way to incorporate a micron sensor into a unit like this.

[RussellHarju]

It probably isn't useless but having one built in is a sales gimmick IMO.
AFAIK testo and Fieldpiece are the only ones doing it ATM. I hope no one else follows. I don't understand why testo would display something like this but it just goes to show you how accurate their unit is because all they are using is their compensated high pressure sensors.
A sensor on a plug or wireless would be a much better way to incorporate a micron sensor into a unit like this.

We make one with and and one without. Checkout the SMAN2 if you don't want a micron gauge included in the gauge.

[RussellHarju]

Kinda ridiculous there are manufacturers producing a gauge that isn't considered ideal for doing a job. Especially if it's a high end product.
Why make a gauge set with a micron gauge built in, if it's basically useless? If it kind of holds a vacuum or might hold a vacuum, it is losing money. Tools that aren't designed with an ideal assurance to do their job are wasting a technicians valuable time! Not to mention the stress of second guessing your tools while you're trying to work. These are supposed to be professional tools, not HomeDepot or Lowes DIYer specials!
Seems to be a waste of time and money for both manf, technician (consumer), and end customer.

We make one with a micron gauge and one without to suit different wants and needs. Check out the SMAN2 if you do not want a micron gauge built into your manifold.

[ault51]

We talked to this guy directly and helped him out. Turned out to be an operator error. The problem was that he didn't cap off the center port since he was pulling through the low side port. In effect, he was pulling a vacuum on the atmosphere.

He tried again after capping off the port and everything worked just fine. Honest mistake.

[itsiceman]

We make one with and and one without. Checkout the SMAN2 if you don't want a micron gauge included in the gauge.
I don't get the pricing between the two versions you have
especially when compared to other MFG's and what you are getting.
From here it looks like a sales gimmick.

[MichaelPaladin]

If memory serves me correctly SMAN2 is about $319 MSRP and the SMAN3 is about $419 MSRP. Only difference between the two is the pipe clamps and the micron guage.

And personally I'm looking at getting a SMAN3 rig in the near future.

[skippedover]

I just sent an email into FieldPiece regarding my SMAN3 and negative pressures today. Here's the scoop. Had the gauges all hooked up according to my normal procedure. That is, center hose to vacuum pump, high side hose to high side service port, low side hose to low side service port. Started the JB 7 CFM pump on a 1.5-ton new installed tested with nitro to 250 psig = no leaks.

The first issue was uneven negative pressures. Low side gauge read -29.9 while the high side gauge read -24.4! Both manifold valves were open. I tried all kinds of front seating, back seating, mid-seating with the valves, no difference recorded. Micron gauge never came on-line. Disconnected and tested the gauge set with the hi/lo hoses parked to the manifold on the SMAN3 and pulled down. Same thing but this time the micron gauge came on and pumped down to 635 microns but that was as low as it would go.

Next I got out my old JB micron gauge, put in a fresh battery and installed it in a tee along with the SMAN3. Started pumping down and the JB began to indicate microns at 9,000 within minutes. No micron gauge on the SMAN3. Continued pumping and got down to 1825 on the JB, still nothing on the SMAN3???? Still had a higher high side reading than I did on the low side as well!! Something seems amiss here. No complaints on the pressure side of things. They seem to work well. But there seems to be a problem or two on the negative side. Comments anybody?

[itsiceman]

Have you been through the advanced pressure calibration yet?

[itsiceman]

Also FWIW I wouldn't be comparing micron reading with any J/B gauge.

[RussellHarju]

I just sent an email into FieldPiece regarding my SMAN3 and negative pressures today. Here's the scoop. Had the gauges all hooked up according to my normal procedure. That is, center hose to vacuum pump, high side hose to high side service port, low side hose to low side service port. Started the JB 7 CFM pump on a 1.5-ton new installed tested with nitro to 250 psig = no leaks.

The first issue was uneven negative pressures. Low side gauge read -29.9 while the high side gauge read -24.4! Both manifold valves were open. I tried all kinds of front seating, back seating, mid-seating with the valves, no difference recorded. Micron gauge never came on-line. Disconnected and tested the gauge set with the hi/lo hoses parked to the manifold on the SMAN3 and pulled down. Same thing but this time the micron gauge came on and pumped down to 635 microns but that was as low as it would go.

Next I got out my old JB micron gauge, put in a fresh battery and installed it in a tee along with the SMAN3. Started pumping down and the JB began to indicate microns at 9,000 within minutes. No micron gauge on the SMAN3. Continued pumping and got down to 1825 on the JB, still nothing on the SMAN3???? Still had a higher high side reading than I did on the low side as well!! Something seems amiss here. No complaints on the pressure side of things. They seem to work well. But there seems to be a problem or two on the negative side. Comments anybody?

Sounds like their may be a leak in the setup process. Also when you got no reading on the gauge it may have been because the micron sensor never got "triggered" to go on. Either the high or low side must get below -29.9 inMg to 'trigger' the micron gauge on. Please call us at 714 634 1844 and walk us through how you have things set up and we may be able to locate the problem over the phone.

[RussellHarju]

If memory serves me correctly SMAN2 is about $319 MSRP and the SMAN3 is about $419 MSRP. Only difference between the two is the pipe clamps and the micron guage.

And personally I'm looking at getting a SMAN3 rig in the near future.

This is correct. I think Iceman is referring to the $100 price difference between the SMAN2 and SMAN3. Two of our clamps when purchased separately would cost about $100. Bundling products generally lowers cost and in this case we were able to include both pipe clamps and a micron sensor built into the SMAN for about $100 price increase for the SMAN3.

[skippedover]

Thanks Russell. I'll give a call as soon as I can. I'm East Coast, you're West Coast. That means I'm up on the road while you're still getting your beauty sleep (I'm sure you don't need it but nonetheless, get plenty) and am still doing calls after you're closed for the night! Ah, the AC business. Feast or famine. Gotta love it, eh?

[skippedover]

Also FWIW I wouldn't be comparing micron reading with any J/B gauge.

Well, to each his own I guess. I've never had a problem with mine. Perhaps your experience has been different??

[RussellHarju]

Thanks Russell. I'll give a call as soon as I can. I'm East Coast, you're West Coast. That means I'm up on the road while you're still getting your beauty sleep (I'm sure you don't need it but nonetheless, get plenty) and am still doing calls after you're closed for the night! Ah, the AC business. Feast or famine. Gotta love it, eh?

We are available for tech calls from 8 to 5 at the office but if you email me, i'll give you my cell phone. Within 10 or 15 minutes i'll be able to figure out if i can help you over the phone or not and i'd be happy to help when i'm not in the office. My email is fppm2@fieldpiece.com

[KLEINman]

We are available for tech calls from 8 to 5 at the office but if you email me, i'll give you my cell phone. Within 10 or 15 minutes i'll be able to figure out if i can help you over the phone or not and i'd be happy to help when i'm not in the office. My email is fppm2@fieldpiece.com

i will say, yous guys customer service is pretty damn good, keep up the good work!

[itsiceman]

Sounds like their may be a leak in the setup process. Also when you got no reading on the gauge it may have been because the micron sensor never got "triggered" to go on. Either the high or low side must get below -29.9 inMg to 'trigger' the micron gauge on. Please call us at 714 634 1844 and walk us through how you have things set up and we may be able to locate the problem over the phone.
Below 29.9 inHg is below about 700 microns
From the ones I've seen the SMAN3 seems to trigger the display and power up the sensor at around 17-20 inHg

[RussellHarju]

Below 29.9 inHg is below about 700 microns
From the ones I've seen the SMAN3 seems to trigger the display and power up the sensor at around 17-20 inHg

Thanks for clarifying. The high and low pressure sensors trigger the micron gauge sensor so that valves need to be open was my point. It happens so fast you probably wouldn't see it actually switch over from inHG to microns.

[Rcb2875]

Thanks for clarifying. The high and low pressure sensors trigger the micron gauge sensor so that valves need to be open was my point. It happens so fast you probably wouldn't see it actually switch over from inHG to microns.

It doesn't switch over from one to the other. They are displayed at the same time. The HG is monitored from the high and low side where the micron is monitored from the charging ( yellow hose ) port and is displayed underneath the HG low side. If you disconnect the charging hose from the pump the micron gage will display open line and give no readings even with the valves closed. HG will remain there. If you close the valves the micron will still display the increase in vacuum while the pump is running. You need a ball valve between the gage and the pump. Isolate the pump with a ball valve on your hose while it is running before shutting it off. Mine will pull to 29.9 before starting the micron at 9000

Unless my sman3 set operates completely different than others.

[Rcb2875]

I went out and set up my gage to the vacuum pump, it seems it does initially trigger the micron gage from the high and low side valves open. You can then close the valves and see the microns continue getting a deeper vacuum.

[RussellHarju]

I went out and set up my gage to the vacuum pump, it seems it does initially trigger the micron gage from the high and low side valves open. You can then close the valves and see the microns continue getting a deeper vacuum.

This is when i'm kicking myself that i didn't make a video for the SMAN3 going into vacuum. Then this process would have been a little easier to see explain :grin2:

[Rcb2875]

lol I searched you tube and found a guy that posted a couple videos complaining that the micron gage didn't work.. he was pulling the vacuum from the low side hose and had the charging port open, valves closed. Later see Fieldpiece told him to pull through the charging port and poof it worked.. ;)

Don't know why it isn't measured from the low and high sides but is triggered from there. I figure there is a simple reason I just don't know it.

I did notice that with the valves open and just pulling a vacuum on the sman3 the microns would bounce between 800something and 900something... close the valves and it shoots down past 500 microns. Curious why valves open I can pull a system down to 500 microns but not the gage with the low and high hoses in their docking ports with valves open? I'm missing something simple here I know it lol

If my camera charges in time I will make a video I suppose.

[RussellHarju]

lol I searched you tube and found a guy that posted a couple videos complaining that the micron gage didn't work.. he was pulling the vacuum from the low side hose and had the charging port open, valves closed. Later see Fieldpiece told him to pull through the charging port and poof it worked.. ;)

Don't know why it isn't measured from the low and high sides but is triggered from there. I figure there is a simple reason I just don't know it.

I did notice that with the valves open and just pulling a vacuum on the sman3 the microns would bounce between 800something and 900something... close the valves and it shoots down past 500 microns. Curious why valves open I can pull a system down to 500 microns but not the gage with the low and high hoses in their docking ports with valves open? I'm missing something simple here I know it lol

Hoses (everyone hates to hear this) all leak. Vacuums are very difficult to pull. Many of these leaks are likely negligible when talking about losing refrigerant because they leak will be .01 oz per year. But that same leak may cause you headaches when trying to pull a system down. And anytime you add complications such as more ports, hoses, valves you will get a less tight setup.

[Rcb2875]

Haven't ever had problems holding the systems at 500 microns, just when I went outside and had the hoses connected to the docking/storage ports on the gage as you would have both ends of the hoses connected to the gage when hanging in your truck. May be the gaskets on the hoses don't seal to the docking ports. idk. All holds well when pulling and holding for 1/2 hour when connected to an actual system. Great.. something else to pester my mind till I narrow it down. lol

[mgenius33]

Ok, Your customer service/support on this site has gotten the best of me!
I got my SMAN3's today. Just charged up a unit tonight for a neighbor of the install manager's. Under warranty, (obviously going back for leak search tomorrow) so he was glad I showed up quickly. He kept me company while I checked out the unit, and BLAAM! I pulled them out and kicked on the blue back light. His face turned green with envy, and he even stated the same. He had all kinds of questions about them. So, I'm glad I did the research to know the answers.
I used them earlier today, and found my 410a analog gauges to be off ~3-5psig on the low side and ~15-20psig on the high side. Wow, I thought I kept them calibrated by checking them against a jug of ref and using a temp probe.
So far I'm pretty happy with the purchase. We mainly do residential, so the need for temp compensating thermistors is not all that great. I would like a set of Testo's but the deal I got on the SMAN's, I couldn't pass up. Not to mention the abuse videos I watched on youtube. They can take a beating.

Hey Russell, any chance you'll offer a small vacuum rated valve for the center port to isolate the vacuum gauge from the vac pump? Paying $60 - $80 for a core removal tool that adds too much length to the valve stem doesn't seem to be ideal.

[skippedover]

We are available for tech calls from 8 to 5 at the office but if you email me, i'll give you my cell phone. Within 10 or 15 minutes i'll be able to figure out if i can help you over the phone or not and i'd be happy to help when i'm not in the office. My email is fppm2@fieldpiece.com

Thanks again Russell. I called moments ago and spoke with someone who is shipping me out a new high side valve assembly. I discovered that for some reason the high side valve will not open when the high side line is charged with pressure. I could get it to open by putting high pressure in the center line and 'pushing' the valve open. I could hear it 'pop' but if I tried to purge the line from the high side service valve and out the center hose, I'd get nothing. So.... a telephone call to the manufacturer and in 2-seconds he said he's send me a new valve and instructions on its replacement, FED/EX red.

[Tranetech]

Thanks again Russell. I called moments ago and spoke with someone who is shipping me out a new high side valve assembly. I discovered that for some reason the high side valve will not open when the high side line is charged with pressure. I could get it to open by putting high pressure in the center line and 'pushing' the valve open. I could hear it 'pop' but if I tried to purge the line from the high side service valve and out the center hose, I'd get nothing. So.... a telephone call to the manufacturer and in 2-seconds he said he's send me a new valve and instructions on its replacement, FED/EX red.

I'm having this same problem with both of mine Russel, what do I need to do??

[skippedover]

I'm having this same problem with both of mine Russel, what do I need to do??

Just call the contact number and go to tech service, #1. You'll get instant results.

[mgenius33]

When pulling a vacuum, what is the deal with the scrambled digits under inHg and above microns?
Just wondering if something is wrong or is that normal?

[itsiceman]

It tells you if the reading is going up or down.
When the reading change slows it indicates "stable"

[mgenius33]

so, you're saying it's not working correctly, if it looks like a bunch of scrambled digits cut in half?

[itsiceman]

No it sounds like its working like it is suposed to.
You can see it in the video that is at the begining of this post and it is written in the manual as well.

[itsiceman]

Sorry ment begining of the thread
Here is a link of that video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwictY2xyBQ&feature=player_embedded#at=86

[mgenius33]

Yeah, I read about the "stable" icon in the manual, but I don't think it says anything about the fluctuation indicator looking like that.
Cool, so it worked well, just need to get the vacuum rated ball valve for the center port.

Didn't realize before using digital gauges, but the need for the vacuum/micron gauge to serve as a leak check is unnecessary. This thing is great for pressure testing, as it shows pressure down to 1/10psig. Man, it's nice to not second guess pressure testing, or tapping on the analog gauge to make sure it didn't move etc...

[itsiceman]

Don't rely on the micron gauge for leak detection.
If you look at the video the reading is not stable even though it says so.
To many variables for this micron gauge to be that accurate.