NAE 55 to Fx 70

[schoust]

Hey Guy's wanted to get a little feedback from the people who know these product's. I have two building's that currently have Nae 55-0 which We were informed are no longer supported by the Milwaukee and they said that we need to upgrade. Well we are currently looking at the Fx product or the new JCI Nae. Opinions and Pro's and con's would be appreciated!
thanks

[Froz'ninWpg]

Hi Schoust, the earlier versions of the NAE 55 had a memory issue and hey could not upgrade the RAM and therefore the newer versions of the database could not be applied to those devices.

If you are not experiencing any issues with them, leave them alone. Unless you are planning to add devices or upgrades your ADS/X if you have one I would leave them be.

From my experience the NAE is a good product as long as you have the ability to work on it and get support from the local branch. If you don't have local support then you can begin to run into issues. We currently have 50 of the NAE products on our network with an ADX and we do not run into very many issues. We are alos self supportive with only a software subscription with the local branch. Most problems we run into are related to our IT dept. but I am sure this is the saem with any device you stick on a network tha tIT does not want to support.

If you are going to upgrade, take a good look at the amount of devices, points, and memory utilization on the NAE. I have found it is cheaper to buy (2) NAE-35 then one 55. If your system is not too busy take a look at these devices.

Also, you can purchase NAE's from outisde JCI if you know where to look.

I hope you find this info helpful and pleae let me know if you need anymore.

Enjoy the weekend.....

[Cagey57]

schoust,
First, "Support" is a relative term.
Second, what kind and quantity of field devices currently exist on those NAE's ?
Third, an FX-70 may be way too much you could look into an FX-60.
Fourth, AN FX-60 will probably cost 1/2 of what an NAE-55 will and you do NOT have to have additional software, recommended but not required.
Fifth, With an FX-60/70 you have the option of having any AX Certified service individual support the system.

As Frozn said you have several options, I am partial to the FX for many reasons. Do your homework and talk to other Building Operators/Managers/Engineers before you throw a bunch of money at the issue.

[schoust]

Thanks Guy's! Well I have basically done the leg work and the Fx product does look very nice for what we are doing. Myself I do Not like the idea of being sold a product that is no longer supported a few years later. I do realize that this might be the case with any system that I buy being that they are all computer based and the latest and greatest typically will make a product obsolete. There is something about my experience with the Branch that makes me want to move away and to be honest I sure like the idea of having many different choices of support mechanism when and if I need the help.

Back to the pro's and con's are the any con's to this Fx product? How about Pro's??Is there something that I should be aware of that possibly would sway my opinion back toward JCI NAE.? Frankly the NAE does not impress me I have been a fan of Siemens Apogee Automation for some time but this system is not cost prohibitive,that and the power's that be do not want any more proprietary system's..
Thanks

[berg2666]

Cons of FX Noone talks about yearly licensing for the FX that is not needed on the NAE. As mentioned earlier count the number of devices on each trunk of the 55. Two NAE 35 are cheaper then a 55.

[berg2666]

Fourth what is the difference in software required for a NAE as compared to FX60? Both still require archiving software.

SCT Does not require licensing as workbench does.

[berg2666]

Fifth a NAE doesnt require a certified tech to work on it. Knowledagable service tech can work on it.

[berg2666]

Hey Guy's wanted to get a little feedback from the people who know these product's. I have two building's that currently have Nae 55-0 which We were informed are no longer supported by the Milwaukee and they said that we need to upgrade. Well we are currently looking at the Fx product or the new JCI Nae. Opinions and Pro's and con's would be appreciated!
thanks

Windows still supports win 98,win 2k dont they ...... Just the same here a NAE 55 requires software that will not run on the amount of memory in a NAE55-0 and that is why JCI says its not supported. That does not mean JCI will not work on it and service it.
A NAE55 can run any revision from 1.1 to 4.0.6.....Just that JCI is at rev 5.1.3

[beer30]

Sixth no HVACPro passthrough. Still favor the Jace though.

[beer30]

Cons of FX Noone talks about yearly licensing for the FX that is not needed on the NAE.


I don't think the FX has a yearly license fee. If so, I haven't paid it and the box is still blinking.

[beer30]

Fifth a NAE doesnt require a certified tech to work on it. Knowledagable service tech can work on it.

The certification enables you to purchase product. Knowledge enables you work on either product.

[Cagey57]

I keep seeing references to "Yearly License Fee" in the context of the FX-20/40/60/70. We have over a 200 of them out there and have Never paid a "Yearly License Fee" for a single one. Each FX-20/40/60/70 has the full Qnx installed in it and has a "expires=never" in the license.

There is a cost to upgrade the FX-20/60/70's to a newer revision but it is only needed if the enduser wants added features of the newer revisions.

As berg2666 said you do NOT have to be certified to work on the FX products, the same applies to the NAE.

The lack of pass-through on the FX's is a fail point but only a small percentage (<5%) of our customers use it. We simply supply a Laptop with Mtools and it's not an issue.

The NAE, even at 5.1, has a limited tool set (LCT) and you have to have additional SW to do graphics.

The FX self generate 80%+ complete graphics for the N2 devices and ,"Prego, it's in there".

I support everything from Companion (early 90's) to FX, NAE (MSEA) included. I think I have enough experience to make a recommendation. Just remember free advice can be worth what you paid for it !

Remember, I said I was biased (or implied it). I prefer the FX because you get more bang for you buck and when you get tired of/pissed off at your support provider there are usually 3 or 10 other Niagara Ax competent people capable of providing support.:.02:

"That's all I have to say about that." Forest Gump

[schoust]

So Mr.K. In your opinion is this product going to be relevant in the coming year's or has it's flame began to flicker? I like what I see as hath rice but want to know that I'm not buying an old car.... Also I will be a Newb but not at all new to automation SW as a whole,just how tough would it be to learn to program this stuff?
Thanks again

[Cagey57]

schoust,
I can't forsee the future, I wish I could !

I have been to both JCI training classes (MSEA and FX). I have alwas found the FX to easier to learn/program and I don't see it as a "flash in the pan" in any respect.

I personally have always found there to be more resources available for the Niagara Ax platform and as such there are, I believe, greater numbers of competent people availble to support an Ax installation.

That is just my experience. I am not an expert by any means !

The FX Supervisory controllers (FX-20/60/70) are typically supplied by independant Contractors/Distributers (ABCS) and in some markets there are several of those. THE NAE is a JCI only supply channel and, in some markets, very singular in the aspect of support.

:.02:

[LeroyMac]

seventh..Dont do druggs

[mtnwrench]

Berg... what drugs are you smoking?

Never once paid a yearly fee to keep my FX's running.

My FX's can somehow manage to keep time all year long. Please show me a NAE that can do that.

I have to be certified to work on FX's? Hmmm... never got that message.

FX blows NAE out of the water.

[LeroyMac]

Berg... what drugs are you smoking?


I bets it that there cajuun marijawanna.

[blackbelt3677]

Here in the Bay area the NAE is sold by the local supply house. RSD/Total Control. I worked on quite a few NAE's and I agree that they are limited but they work well and as said anyone can set up basic logic with them.(EX: Interlock's)

[MatrixTransform]

.... not buying an old car....

there are no yearly license fees for customers

NONE ... Echo Echo Echo Echo

comparing an NAE with a JACE is like comparing bi-plane with a BlackHawk.

cant even start a fire with the NAE...and youre worried about the flame of Tridium starting to flicker??

...imagine ...
-editing a graphic 'live' at the press of a button.
- implementing 100 field controllers and their graphic's, trends, + programming by cut and paste
- multi-selecting items on a graphic, program, controllers and changing their properties all at once.
-if only you could rename something in the Nav Tree
- rename and redeploy a whole NAE by simply renaming an old backup.
- make your NAE talk legacy protocols by simply dragging them into the NAV tree and assigning a comm port. TEC,ASD,Andover,Modbus,PUP
- being able to add another 4 comm ports.
...or 2 LON cards
... or having each NAE simply 'discover' the others.
... or sharing data between them 'like water falls'

[schoust]

Aha Now were talking! This is the type of comparison that I have been looking for all along! Very nice! What else can this puppy do!! I'm all ear's....

[MrBill1979]

The yearly license fee is for the contractor (ONLY) to keep his/her laptops licensed to work on AX or FX products. A FX Jace is produced by Tridium with a built in N2 driver and some custom JCI software. With Trane and even Kele selling Tridium Jaces I don't see them going anywhere anytime soon.
With the NAE you are stuck with JCI Factory with the FX jace any AX or FX (ABCS Dealer) can work on your equipment.

[LeroyMac]

there are no yearly license fees for customers

NONE ... Echo Echo Echo Echo

comparing an NAE with a JACE is like comparing bi-plane with a BlackHawk.

cant even start a fire with the NAE...and youre worried about the flame of Tridium starting to flicker??

...imagine ...
-editing a graphic 'live' at the press of a button.
- implementing 100 field controllers and their graphic's, trends, + programming by cut and paste
- multi-selecting items on a graphic, program, controllers and changing their properties all at once.
-if only you could rename something in the Nav Tree
- rename and redeploy a whole NAE by simply renaming an old backup.
- make your NAE talk legacy protocols by simply dragging them into the NAV tree and assigning a comm port. TEC,ASD,Andover,Modbus,PUP
- being able to add another 4 comm ports.
...or 2 LON cards
... or having each NAE simply 'discover' the others.
... or sharing data between them 'like water falls'

I beg to differentiaticate. You can starts fires with em. They stink on fire.
almost as mooch as they do as a supervicator devise.