Manufacturer Logo and Contractor Quality

[i g norant]

There are way too many HVAC contractors in the Atlanta area. I want to try to eliminate most of them before I start calling. So I have three questions about what seems to be a manufacturer "rating" of contractors.

Bryant's Factory Authorized Dealer
Carrier's Factory Authorized Dealer
Lennox's Dave Lennox Premier Dealer
Rheem Team Top Contractor

Do these and any of the other manufacturer's "factory certified" logos really indicate that the contractor is a first-class, do-it-right company with well trained techs? Some of the manufacturer's web sites display the logo for a few of their dealers and some contractors use them for their web page and advertising.

Does being listed in the manufacturer's web site "Find your local dealer" relate to the quality of the contractor?

How about North American Technician Excellence, Inc. logo? How many of the employees must be certified to earn the NATE logo posted by the contractor?

Thanks for any input.

[mark beiser]

I don't know about some of the other manufacturers, but to remain a Trane Comfort Specialist dealer, we must have a minimum of 2 NATE certified techs/installers. There is also a minimum reuirement for participating in the training classes Trane has.
Just because a contractor is part of a manufacturers program doesn't guarantee they are any good, in fact, some are very bad, but it is an indicator that at least some of thier staff has been exposed to some training, and those contractors usually have better support from the manufacturor and/or distributor.
I know of a couple of large contractors in my area that only send service and installation supervisors to the training classes...

We are a 2 man shop though, so 100% of our field staff are NATE certified, and have both taken just about every class Trane has offered. :)

[John Walker]

Have you ever wondered why every Ford dealer has been awarded the Ford Motor Company's Customer Excellency Award? No manufactory will tell you one of their HVAC dealerships should be avoided. If a company has a "Factory Representative" come out and give all the techs a 15 minute class then that company has Factory Trained Technicians.

[eeh]

Interesting question.

Question 1 of 2:
What are the requirements for the Carrier designations "distinguished" and "factory authorized" dealers etc? Other brands welcome to comment too :-).

Up in my area (Ontario) there are 6 local dealers promoting Carrier with thier logos etc yet none have any designation from the Find-a-dealer links.

IMO the designation (and to some extent) and firms reputation becomes meaningless as the same of the firm increases. If you are dealing with a largish 40+ employee firm chances are they dont all have the same training, certification, and call-back records.

Question 2 of 2:
How can a customer arrange for their installation to be completed by staff that have the low call-back records, the best training on the related equipment etc? The stock answer from any firm will be that all are staff are good.

[wayner211]

Carrier requires the same as Trane. Minimum of 2 NATE certified techs.

[frigkid]

THESE DEALERS MAY MAY NOT BE BETTER BUT WITH LIST BETTER HAVE KY JELLY READY

[jacob perkins]

Contact a certified Goodman "goody two shoes" Dealer.

[faith]

As the old saying goes, what do you call the student who graduated at the very bottom of his/her class in medical school? “DOCTOR”

That said, my service manager finally got off my case for promoting NATE after he took (and passed) a NATE exam. He said, without doubt the NATE exam was more a technical challenge than his state professional licensing exam, enough said.

Please understand that I totally agree that hands-on field experience is absolutely priceless, there is no meaningful substitute for the aforementioned. However those who understand the theory behind the method climb the learning curve far quicker than those who struggle on hearsay.

I would personally suggest you ask that the installer of your system be NATE certified. Get it is writing, then ask the Technician for their NATE Certification number when they arrive, sound like a plan? BTW: My shop prints each Technician’s NATE Certification number on their respective business card. If the contractor bulks at guarantying (in writing) that your unit will be installed by a NATE Certified professional (or degrades; demeans; or debases NATE’s program) do you really want to do business with that caliber individual?

As for vendors, we’re a TRANE shop, and a “TRANE Comfort Specialist.” What happens here is TRANE contacts each end consumer with a QA courtesy call… Too many bad reports and you’re no longer a TRANE Comfort Specialist. TRANE has invested heavily in marketing dollars and is looking to maximize its return on investment, can you blame them?

Final thought. Does specific vendor equipment bashing really help this industry?

Take care

[eeh]

Thanks for the good advice "faith".

A little bit of searching on this site it appears that in Ontario the equivalent of NATE is the TSSA(technical standards safety authority).

Requirements for TSSA certification are less clear. It appears to be 1yr college + exam for heating license. For A/C license it appears that some additional *practical* time has to be spent out in the field thus eliminating those who get by on theory only. (in theory of course ...)

[dash]

Originally posted by wayner211
Carrier requires the same as Trane. Minimum of 2 NATE certified techs.


In our area ,it's a minimum of 50% of service techs and Installers that work with the refrigeration irciut,so doesn't include duct installers.

Carrier backed ,100% satisfaction or your money back,during the first year,now that means If you have a problem,you will be a priority.It costs the dealer and the contractor ,if you have it taken out.

[Edited by dash on 10-14-2005 at 02:21 PM]

[eeh]

Question posted by eeh
[QUOTE]Question 1 of 2:
What are the requirements for the Carrier designations "distinguished" and "factory authorized" dealers etc? Other brands welcome to comment too :-).
Up in my area (Ontario) there are 6 local dealers promoting Carrier with thier logos etc yet none have any designation from the Find-a-dealer links.


Answer posted by dash

Carrier backed ,100% satisfaction or your money back,during the first year

I am sorry if this message sounds more cynical then I intend it too but ...
Does Carrier have any factory authorized dealers in Ontario?
Their website lists none in major cities like Hamilton/Toronto/Ottawa.
Is this a way of avoiding the 100% satisfaction guarantee in Canada?

[dash]

My guess would be ,the dealer/contractors in the area didn't want to become CFAD or the distributer in the area is not inteested in the program.

The Distinguished Dealer Program,is open to all dealers,I think,and since the mid 1990's 75 have qualified to date.

[i g norant]

Thanks for the input guys. I have called only "factory top-dealer" contractors listed on the manufacturers web site.

The first two estimators came today. Number one was here less then 30 minutes. He asked 3 questions: where is the heater, where is the A/C, what SEER do you want (I told him I am more interested in the HSPF). He then wrote an estimate that had no model numbers or manufacturer names. So that company is off the list. As you guys said, being on the web list and having the manufacturers "great company" logo does not guarantee quality.

Estimator number two was here for 90 minutes. We sat and talked about HVAC and my house for about an hour. He covered many things I had already read on this forum and answered all my questions. He then measured the house (but not the windows) and checked out the heater & ductwork in the attic and the condenser. I asked about Manual J and he said he would do one if I wanted, but his experience made it unnecessary since I do not have vaulted ceilings, sunroom or large areas of glass (Hmmm). BUT he said the most important thing was taking time to do the installation right. Don't just hook it up and leave without measuring/testing and adjusting as necessary. They take two days. Then he said he would have an estimate in a couple of days. Some of his people are NATE so I asked if I could have only NATE installers. He said at least one would be. So he stays on the list.

Your input is right on the money! Thanks again.

[klk]

I called the 800 # for carrier today to ask about the "distinguished dealers "in my area-NJ/NY- the folks I spoke to had no idea what a distinguished dealer was!!- I spoke to 2 different people at Carrier and neither had any idea what I was talking about!!Since there was not a single distinguished dealer listed in my area I asked where the nearest one was- and again they had no idea what it was or how to find my nearest dealer- So much for employee training!!

[RoBoTeq]

Originally posted by jacob perkins
Contact a certified Goodman "goody two shoes" Dealer.

Goodman does not have "certified" dealers.

[AllTemp]

Originally posted by RoBoTeq

Originally posted by jacob perkins
Contact a certified Goodman "goody two shoes" Dealer.

Goodman does not have "certified" dealers.

I guess when Goodman screwed all their GoodCaare deaelrs outof thousands of dolalrs with thier incentive program they started ignoring the factory training and GoodCare ?

[RoBoTeq]

Originally posted by AllTemp

Originally posted by RoBoTeq

Originally posted by jacob perkins
Contact a certified Goodman "goody two shoes" Dealer.

Goodman does not have "certified" dealers.

I guess when Goodman screwed all their GoodCaare deaelrs outof thousands of dolalrs with thier incentive program they started ignoring the factory training and GoodCare ?

I don't know the particulars of what has happened between you and Goodman. I tried to get you in touch with the, then president, of the company distribution but that evidently did not occur for whatever reasons.

Goodman has not screwed any dealers in my region and the dealer incentive programs are going strong. I am not going to say that there were not some bumps in the system, but overall the dealers in my region are very happy with the Goodman programs such as GoodCare, factory training and the new A-Plus program.

I am sorry that something happened between you and Goodman, but it would have to break down to your local representation not doing their job properly if you feel you got screwed. Again, if you'll remember, I tried to help you out with that but you told me not to bother.

[dash]

Originally posted by klk
I called the 800 # for carrier today to ask about the "distinguished dealers "in my area-NJ/NY- the folks I spoke to had no idea what a distinguished dealer was!!- I spoke to 2 different people at Carrier and neither had any idea what I was talking about!!Since there was not a single distinguished dealer listed in my area I asked where the nearest one was- and again they had no idea what it was or how to find my nearest dealer- So much for employee training!!


The Distinguished Dealer Program,is not part of their National Advertising,with only 75 dealers qualifing since the mid 90's,it would not be feasable.

They are recognized on Carrier's Dealer Locater.

[bertrand]

Originally posted by dash

Originally posted by wayner211
Carrier requires the same as Trane. Minimum of 2 NATE certified techs.

Carrier backed ,100% satisfaction or your money back,during the first year,now that means If you have a problem,you will be a priority.It costs the dealer and the contractor ,if you have it taken out.




Don't remember seeing that statement from in anything I got from my "Authorized Carrier" contractor.

I did get a quality survey from Carrier about my install - and I am waiting to see how they respond to some of my issues (discussed in previous posts) before filling it out.

I did get a copy of my extended warranty I purchased which locks me into my contractor for the next 10 years for and service/repair work.

[Edited by bertrand on 10-18-2005 at 11:50 AM]

[dash]

Are they a "Carrier Factory Authorized Dealer"?Just because they sell Carrier doesn't mean they qualified for CFAD and what's included with CFAD.

[bertrand]

Originally posted by dash
Are they a "Carrier Factory Authorized Dealer"?Just because they sell Carrier doesn't mean they qualified for CFAD and what's included with CFAD.

Got them from the find an authoirzed dealer on Carrier website - they got the logo and webite link and everything. Been in business for over 40 years as a carrier dealer. I paid to get the best - an infinity system and an authorized experienced dealer. You saw my post with the install photos.

So lets just say I will probably end up about 75% satisfied (after they come back out for somethings) and thats what I will send in the survey.

[Edited by bertrand on 10-18-2005 at 02:08 PM]

[i g norant]

Well, another 30 minute look-at-what-ya-got-now replacement quote. Wanted to know what SEER I wanted. Told him I was more interested in HSPF and had to tell him what that meant. Did you know that HSPF is based SEER and tonnage of the outside unit?

But he could give me a below regular price deal because they were overstocked with this model and could install it tomorrow. So that is 2 out of 3 manufacturer best logo dealers down the drain. I am SO glad that I found this site and learned some of the very basic fundamentals. Wonder if I could take over some of these sales calls? LOL

[gardenelf]

i g norant, I am going to the same ordeal right know...tried to get an estimate from an Trane Comfort Specialist, the only one recommended where I live, his secretary called me back after a day of waiting and told me he doesn't have time to come out and give me an estimate because they are backed up..me puzzled...ask when he would have time? She told me he just wouldn't..so much for customer service. I still wait to hear from Home Depot. I also contacted a Carrier Master Dealer, one of the two we have in our area, he came out after two days of waiting and with a three hour delay, which is alright with me, I understand scheduling can be a problem...I learned to be patient since moving to the south. Well, he was nice but thought he was dealing with a "stupid blonde"...thanks to this site I am a little more intelligent and know what I actually need and what he should do...hehehehe....I got him real good when I brought up the manual load calculation...and just sticking his head in the attic and telling me the 20 year old duct work looks good didn't work for me either...well I got him to measure the house and he agreed on a manual load calc. if I wanted one...I guess he wants to make sure I really buy from him, before investing to much time. Well, I didn't get to see the install pros (he is just a sales guy and I guess that's how the bigger companies handle their business...which I think stinks).I think the folks that actually install the system should come out and inspect what you have and what you need. What does a sales guy really know about installation??? Well, the quest continues...good luck to us...what would we do without this great board....we would be in trouble...I guess...it makes life easier for sure.

[i g norant]

I called some more companies today. One scheduler said they would want to take some measurements and do a blower door test when they come out. He will be here Friday evening. I'm keeping my fingers crossed! :)

Is asking for contractor recommendations permitted? If so, who is good in the Atlanta area? Seems my picks are not very good since I am on my second round of calls. Split gas heat & A/C will be replaced with dual-fuel heat pump and gas furnace. Also will probably zone since I have a 2 story house with only one system and I am tired of the upstairs-downstairs difference.

[chillbilly]

The succint answer to all three of your original questions is NO, NO AND a percentage dictated by the manufacturer.

[Edited by chillbilly on 10-19-2005 at 08:44 PM]