System for new house

[Eric2]

Hi,
I am trying to pick a system for a new house I am having built. The contractor is trying to get me to install 2 heat-pump units. One upstairs and one in the basement.

I think I only want one unit installed. It would be propane. I do not like electric heat or heat-pumps. It would have a DC blower motor that I would run 24 hours a day to keep the air circulating (it costs almost nothing to run a DC motor), with an electric filter like the clean affects. I think I could have a return air in the basement and upstairs to pull air from both areas. I would also have a 2 stage unit. I am not sure what seer or efficiency rating to get on the furnace. I am thinking maybe 90 % on the furnace and 13 seer 2 stage AC.

The builder is telling me that the walkout basement even though it is well insulated will have a much different temperature than upstairs. I am thinking if I am always moving air that the temperatures would equalize somewhat. I don't want the cost of installing and maintaining 2 HVAC units.

Please I am open to any advise and suggestions.

[bmathews]

Heat rises and cold air falls. It will be difficult to maintain temps on 2 different floors. At the very least. I would go with zoning. As far as going straight propane. It is very expensive to heat a house with. If you're set on propane. I would install a heat pump and use the propane as backup or emergency heat. Trust me on this one. You will get a huge shock on your propane usage. Almost everybody that has installed only propane for heat regrets it when you have to pay for it.

[trouble time]

I Built my house 20 years ago. Propane/wood combo. This is the first year that I ran on Propane only and I was shocked. It was three times the cost of burning wood.
Two furnaces is the way to go, I would think about heat pumps too.
:.02:

[George2]

I agree with BM.....stay away from propane. I would do a geothermal (one system) with the ductwork designed so you can control each level seperately thru manually dampering or (auto) zoning.

How large is the home to be and where are you located?

[catmanacman]

if your set on one system and propane dual fuel and and a zone system would be the way to go

[airsys]

I don't think there are many 13 SEER 2 stage AC units out there.

[2old2rock]

Have you used propane in the past? We have customers pleading for any solution to get them out of propane. The price is unbelievable.
I would build the home to the highest possible insulation standards, (foam), avoid propane at all costs, re-consider air to air heat pumps, and maybe even consider geo-thermal, if it's in your budget. And of coarse make sure the HVAC systems are PROPERLY SIZED!
2 separate systems are the best way to go.

[cuchulain]

I don't think there are many 13 SEER 2 stage AC units out there.

at 13 seer i don't believe there are any, but i could be wrong.

Like has been said heat raises, and cold air falls. You won't have a good temperature on one floor, no matter what. The only way you can even possibly get away with a single system on a multi-story house is if it is absolutely sized correctly, ductwork done absolutely correctly and it is zoned. 2 units are definitely the way to go.

The problem with running the fan 24/7 is the fact that when the cooling cycle ends it won't allow the coil to completely get rid of the moisture on it, and therefore will put it BACK into the house. If you live in a humid environment you'll be working to get the humidity out of the house in the first place, and if you can't get it all out of the system and it's going backinto the house then you'll be defeating the purpose.

[teddy bear]

Well built, air tight, and controlled fresh air ventilation are my concerns for comfort and health. Are you concerned about indoor air quality? Fresh is needed to purge indoor pollutants and renew oxygen. Should include fresh air change and maintaining comfortable humidity levels. Usually this includes winter humidification and summer dehumidification.
Regards TB

[dan sw fl]

Hi,
I am trying to pick a system for a new house I am having built. The contractor is trying to get me to install 2 heat-pump units. One upstairs and one in the basement.

I think I only want one unit installed. It would be propane. I do not like electric heat or heat-pumps. It would have a DC blower motor that I would run 24 hours a day to keep the air circulating (it costs almost nothing to run a DC motor), with an electric filter like the clean affects. I think I could have a return air in the basement and upstairs to pull air from both areas. I would also have a 2 stage unit. I am not sure what seer or efficiency rating to get on the furnace. I am thinking maybe 90 % on the furnace and 13 seer 2 stage AC.

The builder is telling me that the walkout basement even though it is well insulated will have a much different temperature than upstairs. I am thinking if I am always moving air that the temperatures would equalize somewhat. I don't want the cost of installing and maintaining 2 HVAC units.

Please I am open to any advise and suggestions.

You need an INDEPENDENT HVAC design.
..... I would be inclined to start with 2 systems in a design effort unless the house is "quite small".


No location or house size or envelope details or life style ...
SO nearly all comments here would not be too meaningful.

Hybrid - dual fuel
if in an appropriate Location.


EXCEPT
OF COURSE
... STAY AWAY FROM PROPANE.
........ unless you own one of those Money Trees.

[arc8]

Hi,
I am trying to pick a system for a new house I am having built. The contractor is trying to get me to install 2 heat-pump units. One upstairs and one in the basement.

I think I only want one unit installed. It would be propane. I do not like electric heat or heat-pumps. It would have a DC blower motor that I would run 24 hours a day to keep the air circulating (it costs almost nothing to run a DC motor), with an electric filter like the clean affects. I think I could have a return air in the basement and upstairs to pull air from both areas. I would also have a 2 stage unit. I am not sure what seer or efficiency rating to get on the furnace. I am thinking maybe 90 % on the furnace and 13 seer 2 stage AC.

The builder is telling me that the walkout basement even though it is well insulated will have a much different temperature than upstairs. I am thinking if I am always moving air that the temperatures would equalize somewhat. I don't want the cost of installing and maintaining 2 HVAC units.

Please I am open to any advise and suggestions.

WOW! Is there opinions or what.

The only time I recommend a two system approach would be when your cooling load is greater than 5 tons; otherwise one system is sufficient and more than enough to meet the building loads, and if there is too much differing peak loads, then go with zoning.

With the prices of propane these days and the future, I would definitely offer and go with Heat Pumps systems. Of course, with a propane back up.

[Eric2]

Thanks for all the suggestions.
The house is going to be 2500 sq feet counting the walkout basement. ICF construction in Northwest Arkansas.

[George2]

Thanks for all the suggestions.
The house is going to be 2500 sq feet counting the walkout basement. ICF construction in Northwest Arkansas.

1250 up and 1250 down?

[Eric2]

yes 1250 up and 1250 down.

[darctangent]

Thanks for all the suggestions.
The house is going to be 2500 sq feet counting the walkout basement. ICF construction in Northwest Arkansas.

ICF for the basement or the whole house? You haven't provided much in the way of details for your house. There are many elements to be considered when designing a system for a home. A bare minimum description should include location, altitude, general age and construction design, and sq ft per floor. We look at many more things than this, but it cuts out a great deal of guessing and back and forth posts when we seek to advise homeowners in a professional manner.

Based on what you have told us thus far Heat pumps would indeed be a good option for you cost wise. I might suggest the possibility of electric strip heat to supplement the heat pump on colder days to raise the discharge temperature.

Forgive me for my confusion for you post but I didn't see a clear intent as to information you were seeking. I saw mostly statements- 1)you want one system, not two. 2) you don't like the system proposed by the contractor.

What do you wish to know?

[dan sw fl]

Thanks for all the suggestions.
The house is going to be 2500 sq feet counting the walkout basement. ICF construction in Northwest Arkansas.

The different requirements of the two floors requires Zoning.

ONE Heat pump with propane back-up.
I suspect that heat pump may provide 80% of the annual heating needs given ICF construction.

The Cooling requirements downstairs willl be MINIMAL.

UNIQUE construction really needs to be adddressed by an INDEPENDENT HVAC Designer.

:whistle:
Bottom of joists in the basement should be NINE Feet.

[darctangent]

Bottom of joists in the basement should be NINE Feet.

If not more...

It sure is nice to have that extra room to work with. I love it when somebody custom designs a house and gives me a 7'9" ceiling for me to fit my 2000 CFM duct work in.


grrrr. :beat:

[Eric2]

Sorry about the confusion i created. The house is going to be at 1900 feet altitude. ICF construction upstairs and down. Lots of windows upstairs and on the walkout side of the basement. Windows will be high quality Anderson windows. I want an electronic air filter and they run about 1200.00 so I was hoping to be able to purchase just one unit. I want low utility bills. I think utilities are on the rise so I want to be efficient. I was thinking maybe since in the summer the basement air will be cooler i could move some of that air upstairs. I Just want the most cost effective way to do this. I like gas heat but if I will save a bunch of money I would go with the heat pumps. I am not afraid of spending money as long as it is a wise decision and I am not a HVAC guy so I don't have a clue. I was thinking 1 unit would be more cost effective than 2 but maybe not. That is a good point on the height in the basement. Let me know what information I need to include. Should I look into geothermal? I will also have supplemental wood heat from an upstairs wood stove and when I burn that in the winter is there a way to move some of that heat downstairs?

I really appreciate all the responses.
Thank You

[George2]

With Geothermal you won't have any outside unit or any PVC venting which is a plus. There is a 30% federal tax credit on the entire job which helps.

Otherwise go with a dual fuel set up. Electric back-up (no venting needed)may be cheaper to run than propane (and it would be more reliable) and it can be staged for comfort as well.

With the ECM motor running all the time you'll mix the warm air from the wood stove through the house. I'd put a nice size return air (high) in that room.