Bryant Dealer's Proposal for Existing Copper

[alinnova]

My son has a proposal from a Bryant Factory Authorized Dealer for a Puron system that says they will "reconnect all existing copper refrigeration tubing from the condenser to the evaporator coil."

Is this good practice now? There is no mention of a new line set and no cleaning the old line set with nitrogen.

If contamination by way of R-22 lubricant remains in the lines, how long does it take for problems to show up? What problems? Warranty coverage?

Thank again,
Al

[Jultzya]

New condenser, new evaporator.... deserves "new copper"!

[dash]

If it's the correct size then at least blow it out with nitro,and there should be no probelms.


Unless there's a reason to suspect a lot of oil trapped ,I doubt there will be a problem, if they do nothing.As far as warranty,I don't see the mfr. denying a claim.

[tindle air]

There should not be any problems using exisiting copper, I have done this several times. But dash is correct about oil traps in the line set, this is a no no. Copper stays fairly clean with little oil left in lines ( most of the time ). Here comes the most stated repley on this site, ( get a good contractor). A good contractor will check for these kinds of problems before they arise. And the copper must be sized properly R 410 A (puron) must be sized properly

[mr big]

Where you located Tindle Air????/

[t527ed]

Originally posted by jultzya
New condenser, new evaporator.... deserves "new copper"!



unless there is absoutely no way to do it. then i would blow it out with nitrogen and cross my fingers.

[mcewans]

If the lineset can't be replaced, would it make any sense to use one of those cleaners to flush out the lines. Does this remove most of the mineral oil? I also saw a tester that checks for residual mineral oil. I think these are used in large refrigeration retrofits, but maybe they can be used in a residental system.

[PullaVac]

Virginia Kmp makes a cleaning and flushing chemical for cleaning out systems that have compressor failures and burnouts. It leaves no residue. You can also use acetone to flush out your copper lines. Done it quite a few times, have had no problems. I also uses these when I do change outs and retrofits on automobile AC systems. I did a 410A install after pulling a 1 hour 50 micron vaccum. System has been running great since the first of the year.

[PullaVac]

I checked with factory reps before I did the install. There commits, where deep and long vaccum with a good nitrogen purge.

[HVAC Pro]

Lennox has guidelines for using existing line sets. They recommend tying the lines together at the evaporator if it is being replaced and flushing with liquid R22, recovering as it returns to the outside. Follow procedures after that, i.e. micron evac., etc. This should purge any leftover mineral oil.

[Special Ed]

Originally posted by alinnova
"reconnect all existing copper refrigeration tubing from the condenser to the evaporator coil."

Is this good practice now?

I sure hope so. The system won't work otherwise.

And, no, you don't necessarily have to replace the lineset, no matter what Julitzya'll tell ya. As long as it's the right size, clean, flushed with nitrogen & a vacuum is pulled on it it'll be fine.

[Steve Wiggins]

"flushing with nitrogen" will do absolutely NOTHING.

I wouldn't install 410a using the old refrigerant lines....

[Jultzya]

You know what special ed, I didn't get on the high horse and tell him that is the only way.

I told him it deserves a new line set!

It's all a matter of opinion and you know it. My opinion is based on installing systems to last as long as they used to. It also is good practice to use new tubing to insure a clean, leak free system.

I know I sure wouldn't build a new motor and use the old hose's, spark plugs, oil, etc... this air conditioning system is no different.

Otherwise, I think I'll start buying scratch & dent models to save a little on the costs of the install too. I mean, were will the short cuts ever stop?

If I install a new line set, I can pretty well insure that you will have a system not only last for many, many years, but one that provides comfort and reliability.

If I can't do the job correctly at my level of workmanship, you can follow me and have all of them you want.

It's like RoBo's sig line... "The final manufacturing of HVAC systems is done on site by the installer!" I don't think the customer expects any used parts in the equipment I bring to his home, so why would I want to add used materials to finish the job?

[Special Ed]

You're right, Jules, it's a matter of opinion. And I've replaced linesets when it has been necessary (you know, undersized, damaged, etc., etc.). But for every single install? I don't think it's necessary & I don't think it'll lower the longevity of the system either.

Besides, not too many people like it when I tell 'em I have to run the new lineset on the outside of their wall.

[Jultzya]

Originally posted by special ed
I don't think it's necessary & I don't think it'll lower the longevity of the system either.

Besides, not too many people like it when I tell 'em I have to run the new lineset on the outside of their wall.

The thing is you're guessing at the integrity of the lines and the workmanship quality that was performed installing those said lines.

If you can't see them, you have no idea as to what is actually going on with them.

As far as the line sets on the side of the home, use the appropriate materials to cover and blend them, and you will see the complaints diminish.

[cobraon]

We are a Bryant HVAC contractor, and we always figure in a line set replacement. This is done for not only the customers benny, but ours as well. The small additional cost for the new line set will pay for itself in the long run, especially if it is run with no weld joints in the attic. Bryant Puron units come with a drier for Puron. Insure that is installed and that the system is evacuated 3 times, with the last evacuation holding below 1000 micron for 1 hour. Furnace/fan coil with VSB is a plus, as well as the Thermidistat. Heck of a lot of difference from being cold at 72 to being cold at 78, due to lower humidity.

Correction/advice welcome..

[mcewans]

I happen to ageee that replacing the lineset is always the best way to go. Less problems for the customer and fewer future headaches for the tech. However, there are going to be cases it is not feasale to replace the lineset. A good example is where I live. I live in a condo complex and the only way to run a new lineset is along the hallway outside the brick structure and when the unit is inside punching holes through drywall. The first two area are common area that have to be ruled on by the association. I had brought this up to them about a year ago that this was going to be an issue especially after 2010 when R22 units will no longer be available, but it fell on deaf ears. The linesets we have here are 1/4" and 5/8". Since its a 25' run (at the most for the upper floors), its been OK to use 3/8"-1/4" adapter on the liquid side. Granted all of the units are 1.5-2.0 Ton, but these linsets were put in the early 70's and at the very least, you are only loosing efficiency, and at the very worst the R410a systems will have a much shoter lifespan, than if the lineset was replaced in the first place. I don't know if this is ultimately is going to become a legal issue between the homeownwers and the association, but I am sure that something will have to give.