Heat Pump Install?

[tofarsouth]

Hi
First let me say how glad I am to find this forum.
Nice to get some insight from the pros!

I live in north Georgia and I am going to replace my
20 year old heat pump. Its a split unit 3 ton that has
served me well. Actually,I hate to replace it. It has done its job without any repairs or even service call since I built this house. (Whirlpool "wedge" if that means anything).

The condensation drain stopped up and when I removed the panel to clear it I was looking at some really ugly mildew/mold ect.
Its located in a crawl space so I guess this is somewhat normal.

Anyway, Time to replace it.
I called some of the HVAC companies in my area for estimates.
Out of the 5 people who showed up only one guy even took the time to walk thru the house and check the number/location of vents, windows, insulation ect.

All in all most were more interested in telling me how much better their products are.
All of the quotes were pretty much the same.

I started checking for info on the internet (which is how I found you guys).
Seems I can buy a complete system including the condenser/compressor unit, the air handler,evaporator, heat strip, thermastat, pan ect. as a package for less than half the price of having it installed.
This is a Goodman package (3 ton,14 seer,v/s)that(most of) you guys seem to think is comparable to the more comom brands that have been offered to me. Other brand are available at slightly higher prices. I think the only major brands not offered to the homeowner are Trane and Carrier.

I am considering doing the install myself.
I am a Automotive Tech. I have serviced automotive A/C systems for 25yrs. The componants are not that different.
The original install seems to have been done correctly. The duct work seems to be ok and will be reused. Power supply is already there for both units. Seems to be only a matter of replacing the two units, evac and charge the system. Poss. some sheetmetal work to adapt the plenum.

There are two issues that concern me.
1st is the parts warrantee if I do it myself.
How would it be handled from the manafacturer?
2nd is the fact that I'm 53 yrs old and the idea of pulling that box out of (and into ) the cramped crawl space is... well, I could think of better ways to spend a weekend.

I got out the yellow pages called some of the smaller companies to ask if they might consider doing the install (or poss. part of it) using my equipment.
So far no luck. Most seem insulted that I would even ask.

So... what do you guys think of my situation?
Should I do it myself?
Would/have any of you done this for a customer?

I know that this is a forum for pros and I understand the reasons why some would not do this, yet I am willing to pay a fair price for a service (I have offered $1000.00).
And it is the off season.

Any thoughts?

Reguards ED

[hvacjamie]

Originally posted by tofarsouth
I am considering doing the install myself.
I am a Automotive Tech. I have serviced automotive A/C systems for 25yrs. The componants are not that different.



Please post your pictures here when done.

[BobbyBJr]

Yeah, I bet we have lots of thoughts, but not much need in posting them because I am positive you don't really want to hear them.

Bobby

[beenthere]

So if some one brings a tranny and engine to your shop, is your boss going to be happy to install the stuff for the guy.

Doesn't matter how the manufacturer handles the warranty, if you get any, most companies will charge you there full rate, and if you get anything back from the manufacturer, you'll find it isn't the same amount.

In the Goodman warranty papers, it states no warranty for units bought over the internet.

A 1000 bucks isn't enough to install equipment we didn't sale.

[Swampfox]

Sore subject here, your going to get all sorts of angry replies :D, best bet is to have it professionally installed, Goodman does not honor the warranty on equipment purchased over the internet.

[knippknipp]

Add about $4K more and you might get someone to do it. There is a bit more than "pulling it out of a box" and hooking it up to installing it. As for warranty, good luck. Finding a company that will give you a warranty exchange on your parts when they didn't put it in will be tough. After all, you should be able to afford to just buy a new part with all that money you "saved" instead of hasseling with a warranty right????

[york_hvac]

Where are the ballons when you need them?

[tofarsouth]

Originally posted by knippknipp
Add about $4K more and you might get someone to do it. There is a bit more than "pulling it out of a box" and hooking it up to installing it. As for warranty, good luck. Finding a company that will give you a warranty exchange on your parts when they didn't put it in will be tough. After all, you should be able to afford to just buy a new part with all that money you "saved" instead of hasseling with a warranty right????

I am hoping that you are joking about the "add 4k " if not,
how could you justify $5000.00 to install this system?

I am sure that there are systems and situations that might justify this but... you WERE joking right?

As far as the warranty issue, the money saved would allow me to completely replace this system if needed.

But the money saved is not really the issue. I kind of like doing my own work around the house. I enjoy learning this stuff. I have installed my own pool, hardwood flooring, carpet, plumbing and fixtures, built some furiniture ect. ect.

I really didn't mean to step on any toes here.
I know you people are making your living at this and I respect that.

You would not belive how many people have asked my advise about repairing or restoring one of their cars and I am happy to help. Thats all I was looking for...

Reguards
Ed

[RoBoTeq]

Bottom line is this is not a DIY site. So far posters are being nice about this and that is a pleasant surprise. However, it is now appropriate for forum members to get pissy over the "you'er joking" comments.

No one here has to justify anything to anyone who is actively promoting HVAC as a DIY project.

Tofarsouth, I am certain you did not mean to be disrespectful, but you have been.

[knippknipp]

Originally posted by tofarsouth

But the money saved is not really the issue.

Then why not buy the equipment and professional installation from a reliable contractor and put the system you bought BACK on E-bay?? Seriously, we are not talking about comparing a pool or hardwood floors or even carpeting to installing an HVAC system are we? You WERE joking right?????

[Jultzya]

Originally posted by hvacjamie
Please post your pictures here when done.

ROTFLMAO...


Originally posted by york_hvac
Where are the ballons when you need them?

What these ballons? :D

http://www.my-smileys.de/smileys2/baloon.gif

http://www.my-smileys.de/smileys2/033102sor_1_prv.gif (we can't help DIY, due to site rules (http://www.hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?threadid=1241) )

[Jultzya]

Originally posted by tofarsouth
Seems I can buy a complete system including the condenser/compressor unit, the air handler,evaporator, heat strip, thermastat, pan ect. as a package for less than half the price of having it installed.

Gee... I wonder if that's because it's not an installed and properly set up price? Ya think?


I am considering doing the install myself.
I am a Automotive Tech. I have serviced automotive A/C systems for 25yrs. The componants are not that different.
The original install seems to have been done correctly.


So, you are aware of the fact that the products produced today have different specifications than that of your old system?


There are two issues that concern me.
1st is the parts warrantee if I do it myself.
How would it be handled from the manafacturer?

Easy, DECLINED!


2nd is the fact that I'm 53 yrs old and the idea of pulling that box out of (and into ) the cramped crawl space is... well, I could think of better ways to spend a weekend.

Here's where some of that EXPENSIVE installation cost comes into pay. :)


I got out the yellow pages called some of the smaller companies to ask if they might consider doing the install (or poss. part of it) using my equipment.
So far no luck. Most seem insulted that I would even ask.

Kind of like the way you would get treated by a restarunt that you just carried in a steak for them to cook?


So... what do you guys think of my situation?
Should I do it myself?
Would/have any of you done this for a customer?

Simple, pay a professional for a quality installation of whatever equipment they recommend.
No.
No.


I know that this is a forum for pros and I understand the reasons why some would not do this, yet I am willing to pay a fair price for a service (I have offered $1000.00).
And it is the off season.

First, how many hours do you think that $1000 covers?

Whether it is the off season or not, does that adjust their costs of doing business?
(I know I don't get special "offseason" pricing on my bills during the slow time)


Any thoughts?


I think you just come here and stirred the pot BIGTIME!

[Hroper]

I'm in north Georrgia too, an could do the Install, but the Transmission out on the old ford van, an i've found a rebuilt kit on the internet for half the price. and have some tools, just can't find a mechanic fhat will do the work for a reasonable price, If you can give me a 100,000 mile warrenty on the van we might be able to work something out.

[Irishmist]

"Ahem" Can anyone spell T...R...O...L...L?

I thought as mentioned prior, that these situations had been addressed. Thanks jultzya for the 'reminder.'

I try to give the benefit of the doubt, so on the basis that this may NOT be a troll, (yeah, right).

Sorry Mr. home owner, we can't anymore advise you as to how to install your system than we can advise you how to remove your own gall bladder.

You want a professional job? Call in a professional.

[junkhound]

Will cut you a little slack, so,
please clarify your 'auto tech' status and license (609 only, any at all?) Do you have vac pump and micron meter, recovery equip for R22, brazing equip (many auto techs have never brazed), N2 bottle, etc, etc ........ positive answers to these may help you get technical responses, but maybe not after your unjust bashing of the installers who have 'given' you quotes without an apology on that point.

BTW, as to being 53 YO, that is no problem; since, to paraphrase someone on this board who said it previously, " didn't you know that Goodmans are made to ROLL into place"/

[bob brown]

Hello,
I live in a right to work state. The attitude is not as strong as found on this forum, about DIY. Home Depot and Lowes have a booming business. The homeowner has the right to do anything he wants without a license. The only stopping point is a federal mandated certificate for freon handling. The CFC certificate is required to handle freon since the 1990's. I started out in the mid 80's repairing HVAC as a DIY. I read all that I could find about sizing a system. I have a system that is as efficient as a 16-18 SEER system. Go figure. In Texas, there are probably more hacks presenting themselves as experts than the rest of the USA combined. The law says you cannot advertize if not licensed. I see companies that use the license of a worker to satisfy the requirements of the law. I saw a full page add in the yellowpages for a company that appeared to be giant, but only had 2 trucks. The owner did not even have a CFC license, yet he drove the truck. I also know of an electrical contractor that built thousands of apartment units without a masters license. He smoked dope with the right people. My observations over the last 25 years, it seems that the go-getters many times will skip credentials, or lie anout them.

In the State of Texas, a homeowner can obtain a certificate from the state that authorizes any supplier to sell equipment to the homeowner. AS long as the homeowner has a CFC certificate. The HVAC installation is the most difficult of the trades, but I have witnessed 18 yr old installers as a lead worker on million dollar homes many times. The worker does not care about placement or anything beyond completing the job. I have witnessed 18 yr olds installing rough-in plumbing as lead workers without any certification. I ran one guy off a job that I was supervisor on, becaues he could not use a ruler. He worked for a union plumbing shop.

Opinions of workers are not always good. Workers many times do not have the expertise to comment on business practices. Keep on looking.

Remember, training for many jobs only takes a short period. I was represented as an expert on a product installed in hospitals, and my training on the product was 1 installation. The first installation I supervised, I completed under bid. I used union workers on the job. I worked for a fortune 100 company.

[RoBoTeq]

I'm not sure you are thinking of the term "right to work" state in the proper context. "Right to work" is a term used for a state that does not require union affiliation or union standards. It really has nothing to do with DIY.

Most states allow homeowners to do repairs and installations of just about anything in their own homes. The CFC requirements are however a federal mandate that requires "anyone" handling CFC refrigerants to have been certified to do so. Again, this has nothing to do with DIY or professional, just refrigerant handling.

If you worked on someone elses HVAC system you were not acting in a DIY capacity, you were acting in an unlicensed, unregulated capacity, which is where most HVAC hacks are.

You are absolutely correct that training and proper installation and service practices are what is important and I have seen unlicensed part timers doing a better job in this respect then some well established contractors, but that is not the norm. Laws and codes must follow norms, not exeptions.

Back to this particular thread starter; he/she is not in the HVAC field and there are many important differences between automotive cooling and home cooling. If this person wants to take the chance on doing an install him/herself, in their own home, more power to them. In the end, this is still not a DIY site and the poster should not be asking the questions posted on this site. For the most part, what has been asked and opinions that have been stated are a slap in the face to those of us who have dedicated our lives to this proffesion.