Super heat, sub cooling, and Coil cleaning??

[doglips]

Super heat, sub cooling, and Coil cleaning??

Just finished up the computer part of class on super heat and sub cooling. Seems like every other page said to make sure condenser and evaporator coils are clean before taking pressure readings....dirty coils make for inaccurate readings...since so much emphasis was put on clean (cleaning ) coils before taking readings I wanted to ask those of you who actually are out there working???

Do you all clean coils first or just do a visual and if coils look "ok" do the readings? Have you all noticed a problem with getting accurate super heat / sub cooling pressure readings with the coils you run into day in and day out at the average house?

I'm sure cleaning coils is not free so do you itemize it on the bill and explain to the customer that you had to clean the coils before you could accurately trouble shoot the system or just include it as a cost of checking the system??

[ct2]

Dawg:

If you do not have good air flow through the coils--If either one is dirty you will never have the proper superheat/subcooling , your pressures will be high. So sure if you go out to work on any unit you want to make sure the coils are clean and un obstructed and you have good air flow across the coils

[Green Mountain]

Manufacturers design a system based on an average high temperature. If for instance the system is designed for 95°F. The condenser coil is sized for that high temperature. What that means is that on a 95°F day you have better have 100% of the condenser available to reject heat. If you don't then the evaporator will not be able to absorb as much heat as possible.

Coils are made from expensive metals. The manufactures are not going to be nice guys and give us extra surface area just to be on the safe side. "Ah what the heck we just make the coil 10 or 20% bigger just incase it gets dirty."

On a 95°F day you need 100% of the coil. Blow it out with air or CO2. Best is to wash it with a high pressure hose.

I have yelled at so many techs who have come back to the shop and said, "The coil looks clean."

[bornriding]

No, I do not clean indoor coils before troubleshooting the system. The pressures and temps will tell you if the coil needs cleaning, or if there is low air flow for any reason. Coils can look dirty without actually affecting the operation of the system at that moment. I use the best coil cleaners I can find - foaming type - I only clean coils that need cleaning. Of course I am always looking after my customers money. ( why I am not a good business man, I guess ). So I want do anything that is an additional charge unless I feel that the system ( & their electric bill) would be benefitted by the charge.

I do unto others exactly as I would do for myself,
Richard

[gruvn]

You can no ttell if a coil is dirty by loking at it,

Do I clean them before taking pressures ?

No, I don' tknow if they need cleaned til I put my gauges on or feel around on the pipes, and if they need cleaned I set it up for the apprentice , I don't clean any coils but I do instruct others to clean them. I am pretty much beyond cleaning coils it is a task that it is below me.

[rob10]

Originally posted by gruvn
You can no ttell if a coil is dirty by loking at it,

Do I clean them before taking pressures ?

No, I don' tknow if they need cleaned til I put my gauges on or feel around on the pipes, and if they need cleaned I set it up for the apprentice , I don't clean any coils but I do instruct others to clean them. I am pretty much beyond cleaning coils it is a task that it is below me. You are such an IDIOTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[operator]

Originally posted by gruvn
You can no ttell if a coil is dirty by loking at it,

Do I clean them before taking pressures ?

No, I don' tknow if they need cleaned til I put my gauges on or feel around on the pipes, and if they need cleaned I set it up for the apprentice , I don't clean any coils but I do instruct others to clean them. I am pretty much beyond cleaning coils it is a task that it is below me.

Gruvn, youre kidding right?
Jokes, gotta be jokes

I dont think there is any job below someone. you may not like it but to say its below you?

I know some ppeople that rum multi million dollar companies but will still pick up the broom if they need to.

[beenthere]

Some times I do a visual inpection first, other times I'll put the guages on, and then find out one or both coils need cleaned.

Very very seldom have I ever cleaned one coil and not the other, if you clean one, clean them both.


You can't over stress the importance of clean coils, but you can dwell on it too much.

[gruvn]

Originally posted by operator

Originally posted by gruvn
You can no ttell if a coil is dirty by loking at it,

Do I clean them before taking pressures ?

No, I don' tknow if they need cleaned til I put my gauges on or feel around on the pipes, and if they need cleaned I set it up for the apprentice , I don't clean any coils but I do instruct others to clean them. I am pretty much beyond cleaning coils it is a task that it is below me.

Gruvn, youre kidding right?
Jokes, gotta be jokes

I dont think there is any job below someone. you may not like it but to say its below you?

I know some ppeople that rum multi million dollar companies but will still pick up the broom if they need to.

I too know people like that , but I am not like them. If I say it is below me then it is below me. I have not cleaned a coil in 11 years and I will never clean another one. That is work for the learning apprentices , or as I like to call them "Monkey Boy"

[happycamper]

Originally posted by gruvn
[QUOTE]Originally posted by operator
[B][QUOTE]Originally posted by gruvn




I too know people like that , but I am not like them. If I say it is below me then it is below me. I have not cleaned a coil in 11 years and I will never clean another one. That is work for the learning apprentices , or as I like to call them "Monkey Boy"




man u sound like your full of yourself of something else :)
i would never work with of for a person such as your self
gruvn......give servent leadership a try before someone puts a knot on your head...

[Senior Tech]

Originally posted by gruvn

Originally posted by operator
[QUOTE]Originally posted by gruvn
You can no ttell if a coil is dirty by loking at it,

Do I clean them before taking pressures ?

No, I don' tknow if they need cleaned til I put my gauges on or feel around on the pipes, and if they need cleaned I set it up for the apprentice , I don't clean any coils but I do instruct others to clean them. I am pretty much beyond cleaning coils it is a task that it is below me.

Gruvn, youre kidding right?
Jokes, gotta be jokes

I dont think there is any job below someone. you may not like it but to say its below you?

I know some ppeople that rum multi million dollar companies but will still pick up the broom if they need to.

I too know people like that , but I am not like them. If I say it is below me then it is below me. I have not cleaned a coil in 11 years and I will never clean another one. That is work for the learning apprentices , or as I like to call them "Monkey Boy" [/QUOT


Boy...oh boy...fill my sparkling water while I sit under the umbrella and watch you do my dirty work...

We have a name for you in the business...


























Jerk!

[gruvn]

Hey I have earned it, These guys get paid well to clean coils, why should I do it. I get paid well to do what I do and cleaning coils is not part of my job.

[poppa]

you and me both...........by the way, who did you work for????????????????????

[ct2]

YOU WOULD CALL ME "MONKEY BOY" 1 time and then you and that dirty coil would become one. I may be fired but you would be picking aluminum out of your A$$ for so long you would never forget "monkey Boy"

[gruvn]

Hey ct2
































Get that coil clean today


























"""MONKEY BOY"""









Just climb up on that condenser and clean it OK, act like the hose is you tail, I want to see you jumpin around up there, now get to it.I'll check back with you aafter lunch I got to make some phone calls and pick up some parts. !!!





You want a bannana ?

[Edited by gruvn on 09-08-2005 at 07:04 AM]

[mark beiser]

I clean the condensor coils on every system I service. If there are multiple systems, I'll clean the condensor coils in them all, even if I was only out for a problem with one system.

It is amazing how dirty a condensor coil that looks clean can be.

I clean condensor coils before I check the refrigerant charge. Evaperator coils usually are not easy to inspect or clean, so I only really dig into them if the pressures, SH, SC and temp drop through the system indicate the need to.

[gruvn]

Thats ridiculuous Mark, You are saying that you always clean the coil ? GEEZ O MAN, come on dude, get real.

[doglips]

Gruvn
I understand that apprentices get to do all the fun work....and I'm sure that when I get out of school, Ill be doing all the stuff you old timers don't want to do...that's cool and that's why right out of school we expect to get paid at least twice what the senior tech makes :)..got to pay your dues...but seems like your trying to start a flame war ...for no reason....and btw if my employer called me monkey boy Id quit on the spot. Respect goes both ways.

The reason for the ?? I posted was to see how real world techs do things...compared to any school's often fantasy world of a/c repair. I expected some people to clean coils, some not to, and depending on what part of the country they are in to have more or less reason to clean them.

[gruvn]

Well when you post a question on here you will find out that you will get many different points of view on one subject. You need to decipher for yourself which ones apply to you.

So you wanted real world answers to your world question and I gave you one, If there is a coil to be washed and an apprentice is available, guess who is going to wash it. And yes you will get laughed at, mayb not called monkey boy but you will get laughed at, unless your doing residential or something, I'm talking about real heating & cooling equipment, the commercial type.

So good luck,

[newstart]

GRUVN,
You have a bad additude. You are either someone with experience and a complete jerk OR, you're a cronic poster of stupid comments.
Either way, having clean coils is a sure way to get the most accurate pressure reading and a sure way to keep your customers by going the extra mile. Your actions will speak volumes. If you're in business for yourself, cleaning coils is not above anyone unless, that is ofcourse you intend to go out of business real fast.
If you work for a company, your additude would surely create a living hell for any helper you have,they'll quit and you'll be cleaning coils by yourself.
If your a cronic poster of stupid comments,stop playing with yourself and go out and get a life.
P.S.- You do wipe your ass after crapping right? After all, it's all part of the job!

[gruvn]

Originally posted by newstart
GRUVN,
You have a bad additude. You are either someone with experience and a complete jerk OR, you're a cronic poster of stupid comments.


Newstart : Either way, having clean coils is a sure way to get the most accurate pressure reading


Gruvn : Ok so the only way to get a correct reading is to have a clean coil. Well this will be news to the gage manufacturers , they were under the impression that they could accurately set those gages in their gage factories.Why would the condition of the coil affect whether the gage reads accurate or not ? you got me on this one ( roll eyes a lot)



Newstart: and a sure way to keep your customers by going the extra mile.

Gruvn : So lets see if I clean the col I keep the customer ? no matter how many other things may not work when you leave ? Hmmm interesting.


Newstart : Your actions will speak volumes. If you're in business for yourself, cleaning coils is not above anyone unless, that is ofcourse you intend to go out of business real fast.

Gruvn : ok, so we are the same as window wasgers ?

If the window isn't clean they don't call you back to clean the window next time right ?

Well we are not window cleaners, here's a scoop fpr you " we provide comfort, comfort is our product. Get that straight, do you think any customer gives a crap how pretty their unit looks if they are sweating, stay focused on the end product, comfort.




Newstart : If you work for a company, your additude would surely create a living hell for any helper you have,they'll quit and you'll be cleaning coils by yourself.


Gruvn : This statement shows your inexperience in your chosen field, as do the others but this one more than the rest.They have the perogative to quit, and I have the perogative to find someone else, it's up to them.


Newstart : If your a cronic poster of stupid comments,stop playing with yourself and go out and get a life.

Gruvn : I have a life , a very busy one, and my comments are not stupid, they may be the raw truth but they are not stupid, just some of the readers of them are.

[operator]

Originally posted by gruvn

Originally posted by newstart


Gruvn : Ok so the only way to get a correct reading is to have a clean coil. Well this will be news to the gage manufacturers , they were under the impression that they could accurately set those gages in their gage factories.Why would the condition of the coil affect whether the gage reads accurate or not ? you got me on this one ( roll eyes a lot)



The guages do read the pressure accurately, but is it the pressures they are supposed to be, or is the unit overcharged to get teh press you want to see.

I think the others may be trying to state that you have a blatent disrespect for other people, and are ignorant enough to tell everyone that still cleans a coil they are beneath you.

Quite honestly, I cant think of anyone above me, and not many below me either.

[gruvn]

Whats all this talk about gages reading wrong because the coil is dirty? Th gage just reads the pressure , the gage doesn't care one iota if the coil is clean or not it just wants to read the pressure.Think about it for a while and get back to me.

[Indoor Comfort]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by gruvn
You can no ttell if a coil is dirty by loking at it,

Do I clean them before taking pressures ?

No, I don' tknow if they need cleaned til I put my gauges on or feel around on the pipes, and if they need cleaned I set it up for the apprentice , I don't clean any coils but I do instruct others to clean them. I am pretty much beyond cleaning coils it is a task that it is below me. [/QUOTE
Bull Crap!!!

I would never ask my help to do something I wouldnt do myself nothing is beneth anyone in this field. As the owner I would run your a$$ off if you refused to do something like cleaning a coil because you thought you were better than that. If the coil needs cleaning clean the damn thing. Not that big of a deal or are you such a panzy that your scared of a little water and coil cleaner

[stuka12]

I suspect--no, I hope--gruvn is posing as a moron. Some guys get their kicks screwing around with others.

I said I hope he's posing...the alternative is that he really is as stupid as he appears. this is unlikely as he knows how to type and make irritating posts on the internet. I suspect if everyone would ignore him he'd disappear pretty quickly.

[joey791]

Doglips, also you have to be pretty careful almost every unit(saying this for his safety and to get him in the habit) over 5 tons has a double or even triple wrapped condenser coil.

You see us talk about it alot, see pictures of us splitting them on this site but that is not common knowledge, there are many people that see the outside of a coil and think it is clean and never look for a second row condenser or wash the coil and just push the dirt in the center.

Ive only been in the trade for 11 years, but I still get gratification out of splitting a 15 ton Voyager that looks like someone laid carpet between the coils and getting the coils spotless.

[operator]

Originally posted by gruvn
Whats all this talk about gages reading wrong because the coil is dirty? Th gage just reads the pressure , the gage doesn't care one iota if the coil is clean or not it just wants to read the pressure.Think about it for a while and get back to me.

read my post again

it seems that is a problem with alot of people, "that job is below me"

then ***** if an immigrant has a job you wouldnt do anyway

[doglips]

Joey795 could you explain sliting a coil to me...I assumed they were one piece....do larger units come apart?